Talk:The Strength in the Shark

Although it's finished, this story feels a bit "rushed" to me. Does anyone have a suggestion on how I could pace it better? Lloyd Brunnel 12:52, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Hmm... it might be a bit more fundamental. Stories I write usually have a conflict or problem set up at the beginning which is resolved at the end. If the problem is not resolved, the story doesn't feel "complete". In this case, you have the fox sitting at the bar, a shark comes up, apologizes, and leaves. The only initial problem is MAYBE a bit of fear of the shark, and that doesn't even occur until about a third of the way through due to the brevity. Maybe have a new beginning with the POV character grumbling in his mind about the shark that mistook him, about how he hates that, he's angry, but what are you going to say to a shark? Then said shark comes in, apologies, tension/conflict set up at the beginning is resolved. Michael Bard 21:15, 18 August 2009 (EDT)

I think you misread the part of Within and Without that this story refers to. Jonas literally ran into Jimbari and ran away, there was no mistaking things until the start of this story. --Lloyd 12:19, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Critic Notices

For those critiquing this piece, please pay attention to the first section before Jimbari appears, as I am unsure of how well I establish Jonas's frame of mind. I'd also appreciate any help with an ending, since I can't come up with one =( --Lloyd Brunnel 19:12, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Well...the second paragraph seems kind of abrupt, and it feels stilted, unconnected to the rest of the story. Maybe a short sentence between, like, "Yeah, I'm not exactly brimming with it." That might link the two paragraphs better.

As for Jonas' state of mind...I think you've established it pretty well. He seems resentful at losing control to his instincts, ashamed, perhaps. This seems to demonstrate how Jonas was touchy about being a fullmorph. However, he seems to get really pissed at Jimbari, even though it was written in the PaW Character List that Jonas was a shy but friendly guy. "Shy" doesn't fit into his reaction; neither does "friendly". Frankly speaking, I imagined Jonas to be a friendly, cheerful guy, pretty much from how he took the Asplosion of the cake so lightly. His reaction to Jimbari seems to conflict with that idea.

Maybe you're trying to show how Jonas was touchy about being a fullmorph. If so, that's okay. But the events before Jonas' outburst seem strange: first he has "a very strong desire to yell at him for his ignorance", later he gave "a pleased growl", after that he finally gets pissed. I'm not sure if the pleased growl part was supposed to be Jonas' instincts, but if so, you should mention that. Else, you should change it. I think it'd be better if you described how Jonas was at first a little intimidated, then annoyed, then angry (or some other slow increase in anger or something). That way the reader can follow.

For an ending, how about you have someone, like Allan, for example, walk over, scritch Jonas behind the ears and say, "Seriously, though, you really are like a cuddly/fluffy/cute/some-other-amusing-term litle animal. Though you scare me when you yell like that." That way it'd be funny. :)

On the overall, this is a pretty good story. Great work! —Drake 11:35, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Your story opens abruptly and dumps the characters on the reader. This is not a bad thing, but in this case you have made an assumption that the readers know Jonas. A solution to this might be to use a series-bar or a story-info box to link the various Jonas stories together. That is, however, a very heavyweight solution and a simpler one would be an authors-note that this story follows on from the events in "Within and Without".

At the start of your third paragraph you mention "self-depreciation"—did you mean "self-deprecation" (in which case it would work, but I have never heard the term in that tense)? I ask because "depreciation" is something that happens to value but I have never heard it applied to self-worth, just monetary values.

After several reads through it finally comes to me that paragraphs 3 and 4 are actually a single paragraph that was, apparently, split badly. They are split by a line of dialog and it would be better to move the dialog to the start of paragraph 4. This keeps the interruption and the action it causes together and maintains the flow of the narrative better.

The fifth paragraph (starting "I had a very strong desire to yell") marks a change to a passive voice. Since you are using an active voice both before that paragraph and afterwards it breaks the narrative flow. This is caused because the passive voice is a lot slower—it makes the narrative seem to slow down which is not good for a short-story.

However the shouting and ensuing dialog are very well executed. While Jonas' outburst feels really out-of-character for him, it does highlight just how badly the events of "Within and Without" bothered him, as well as how badly the assumptions of Jimbari bothered him. That works in the stories favor as it makes the character "pop off the page". The same for Jimbari—in "Within and Without" he feels really boisterous and outgoing but here he's kinda quiet and conciliatory after Jonas' outburst. That really meek feeling apology and his whole response to the situation gives the character depth he doesn't otherwise have.

All in all, nice work!

-- ShadowWolf 16:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Shadow and Wolfy for your critiques. One last question before I do the actual editing though: Is there any better way I can explain Jonas's outburst? One of the main purposes of this story is to show parts of his personality (in this case, sensitivity over being a fullmorph) that he'd prefer to keep hidden, and I'm not sure that came across very well. --Lloyd Brunnel 17:43, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

The most minor of changes have made major differences. However, you still have a point where you fall back to a passive voice. It took me two read-throughs to catch it this time, so it isn't something that must, absolutely, be fixed. All in all I think you've got things working better and this story captures the scene being presented perfectly.

Otherwise... I think the dialog is well done and very much fits with the characters and their emotions. Though it might be good if you could work on making Jimbari have a bit more of the "depressed/angry" edge. I have a very good relationship with depression and can usually spot it in others easily because of that but Jimbari doesn't seem to be all that depressed over how many people he's freaked out. Dialog is not something I am good at (Cubist rewrote much of the dialog in the stories he's edited for me and brought the right kind of feel to it because of that. I'd suggest contacting him or Bard for good help with dialog.

--ShadowWolf

I'll probably have to consult with Zach on Jimbari's dialogue, since he's his character after all, but I wrote this thinking Jimbari was the type to get demoralized rather than upset or depressed. Does that make any sense? --Lloyd Brunnel 14:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Demoralized is just another way of saying "Depressed". Yes, they do differ a bit in how the people act, but lose morale for a long-enough period of time and the end-result can be the same. Here he's a lot closer to the really 'Emo' way of acting than anything and I can't see him acting all angsty like that. You should talk with Jimbari's creator, but—from personal experience—he'd be more "not feeling anything" at the start of the exchange and would probably just sit and take all of Jonas' outburst and then get up to walk away. Then he'd stop himself after a bit, turn around and start to lay into Jonas—stopping himself before he got going and losing any grasp on his emotions, breaking down and spilling his half of it.

Note that I'm speaking from my own experience with depression brought on bipolar disorder. The biggest problem with that is that the reactions might follow a pattern, but the specifics are different from person to person. For Jimbari there might be no angry outburst, but I can still see him starting to walk away.

--ShadowWolf 14:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC)