User talk:JonBuck/Tall Tales

Nice to see more work being done in this universe, it's an interesting setting. Looking forward to seeing one of those dolphins; I'm currently on a mermaid kick so I'm curious what their structure is like. :) Bryan 13:56, 23 December 2007 (EST)

A couple things on this latest update. First, thanks for the cameo! I wonder what Frasier saw of me though. Going amongst the Changed, I would be dressing my gender. As a rat, I'm also only four and a half feet tall. Also, when it comes to this new aspect of TG, that new acquaintances see the new gender, is that something that is only now starting to happen in 07, or has that always been the case? --MatthiasRat 17:34, 2 February 2008 (EST)

I'll make those changes. As for the "New Acquaintances", that is new for 07, and it's a direct result of having so many furs in a small location. But it's an attempt to make the "processing power" less of an issue for our little simulated world. It could spread to other TGed furs, I'm not sure.--Buck 19:17, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Frankly, I think the "New Acquaintances" schtick is a mistake. The RDF makes people see furries as whatever they used to be before they Changed; if getting Changed a second time alters the 'default image' that mundanes see, how come it's only the gender that might be involved? I mean, why doesn't Chris (he/she of many forms) appear as any of a number of species/gender combinations, depending on exactly who's looking at him/her, and exactly when they first met Chris?

As to processing power in the simulated world, I just can't see that as being a valid concern. First off: Given that we're talking about a post-Singularity cloud of computronium, the available processing power is (or might as well be...) infinite, to all intents and purposes. Second off: If processing power really is a concern, the 'New Acquaintances' schtick makes matters worse. The whole point of the RDF is that it supplies a 'fake image' for mundanes to see, right? Well, what burns more CPU cycles -- one fake image that's seen by all mundanes, or two fake images plus the necessity to keep track of which mundanes ought to see which fake image?

Like I said, I think the 'new acquaintances' schtick is a mistake -- at absolute best, it's an answer in search of a problem, and at worst, it's an unnecessary quirk that makes the Paradise setting more complexificationated without providing any benefits on the side. But if you're going to run with it anyway, I suggest that it be the result of some kind of unforeseen interaction(s) between the 'furry virus' and the 'antivirus shield' that's providing the RDF. Maybe the 'furry virus' has actually mutated into different strains (see also: "polymorphic viruses"); maybe things are going wonky because the 'virus' acquired some code from the 'shield' -- or vice versa; maybe something else entirely. [shrug] Cubist 07:40, 5 February 2008 (EST)

You're probably right about the conservation-of-cpu idea. I'll go ahead and use some interaction between furry virus/RDF antiviral instead. There's no reason why the furry virus has to stay the same. Since it's a sentient thing itself, it'd be looking for ways around the RDF and antivirals. Somehow it managed to change the RDF-presented gender of the furry TGers, intending to both mess their lives up and give the medical community something to puzzle over. So ROB responds with ID card changes. As the "polymorph virus" continues to wreak havoc, ROB will be forced to act more and more openly.

The main reason for this addition is to make things more interesting for the writers and characters.

Still, all this is building towards that normal people are going to figure out there's Something Wrong.--Buck 16:03, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Later: Suppose the virus is screwing with the RDF by changing the human gender the TGed furs appear as. One of two things can happen here. Like PD, they could just dump their old lives entirely and start anew. This would put less strain on the RDF because it no longer has to maintain two phantom images, just one. Also, computer records can be changed. Eirik suggested that if they completely adopt their new lifestyles that even their friends would see them as newly male/female. On the other hand, victims with very established careers (like BD) would have problems.

As for any combinations of species/gender that would happen to folks like CM and JF, perhaps when that does happen it's a sign that the RDF is under imminent failure.--Buck 16:53, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Even Later: I wanted to do something like this from the beginning. My alternative was for a just TG image flip and have the victims deal with it like in most TG fiction. This group is currently isolated, though it'll spread to all the others the next year. ROB would not go as far as to change memories (It has a moral issue against doing that). The middle ground is Family/Friends/Coworkers still see the male image and new people see the female one. I suppose that's a little over the top. But I like that last scene too much to make any changes. --Buck 18:31, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Final Decision: After discussing it on IRC, this is going to stay as I've written it. But it's also a temporary measure. It will spread to all the TGed furs in 2008. And in 2009, their human ghost will flip according to the new real gender of the victim. There will be well over four million furs that year. There will be other developments during that time as well that will start to compromise the integrity of the RDF (perhaps we start getting some furs in high levels of government). But that's the plan right now. --Buck 19:21, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Quick question related to this. I'm planning on having CM transfered to another plant in the area after the Philly con. Now all of her coworkers see her as female. August 08 she changes to male Rottweiler. What gender will they see Chris as then? --MatthiasRat 17:58, 6 February 2008 (EST)

I'm not sure, since your character's situation is unique. I think there's some flexibility. What works best for the story you're trying to tell? --Buck 19:21, 6 February 2008 (EST)

Well, I had the idea that CM has accepted being female, and then goes back to male, but everyone still sees her as female. Now CM gets the opposite TG effect, being male while everyone sees her as female! CM has to get used to being male again in the process of being treated female. --MatthiasRat 21:34, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Nice update, I like how you did the scene you said was inspired by kaceys pic.

--Devin 01:18, 4 February 2008 (EST)

RDF TG ghost alternative

Okay, Cubist. How's this for an alternative?

Instead of the "new acquaintances" Field, what happens is that the human "ghost" TGs. It now reflects physical gender to everyone, family, friends, regardless. This is a direct effect of the "polymorph virus", which is slightly more advanced than the Cloud we live in. So ROB can't directly counter it. Instead, it quickly edits in the female versions' lives, but without altering memories. What it does end up altering are the spouses of married folks. If they have kids, one of them has to be female. And they might even go furry in the process. And regular humans end up "forgetting" what gender that person actually was.

Call it a "reality shift", because in a way it is. And it's a very imperfect kludge because the ROB running the place isn't quite as smart as the virus. The question is if this would spread to all the other TGed, or it's just limited to the baker's dozen who were at this Con.

Is this version better or worse than what I have? Or should I just alter what I have to this version so it can be judged in story context? I need to discuss this with Matthias, also. It's a big change and he's already made some plans. But it also means that things are consistent across the board. Everyone sees BD as Brittany Derringer. --Buck 01:29, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Having it be something that just happened to the ones who were at the Con could be good, making it a harbinger of things to come without necessarily throwing a curve ball at the entire setting yet. Eventually there'll be enough furries that these sorts of RDF failures will become inevitable all over the place, but right now there are still few enough that it only happens when the concentration becomes extreme. Bryan 01:58, 12 February 2008 (EST)

My plans are changeable, Jon. However, I would like to discuss this with you on IRC sometime this week so I can decide whether I think this would be good story-wise or not. I also will need details clarified. For instance, when MP said his husband changed last night, what exactly happened to his husband. And what would or could happen to CM's wife? I'm sure I'll have more questions after I've had some time to ponder this. --MatthiasRat 05:04, 12 February 2008 (EST)

What do I think of this new proposal? Three things:

One: Having the 'ghosts' shift around at all is a mistake. (yes, I still think so)

Two: If 'ghost'-shifting is a gratuitous layer of extra complexity spot-welded onto the setting, this proposal is an additional, thicker layer of gratuitous complexity spackled on top of the first layer.

Three: It's your mistake to make, if you're bound and determined to make it (which all evidence to date suggests you are).

Sorry to be a buzz-kill. Not being into TG myself, I don't really have a dog in this fight (if you'll pardon the expression). But, you know, since you asked me... Cubist 07:49, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Here is a temporary page up with the alternative section: Tall Tales Alternative TG. You be the judge. --Buck 02:38, 12 February 2008 (EST)