User talk:Fish/CYOE - Revision history

Fish at 10:12, 15 November 2007

2007-11-15T10:12:36Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:12, 15 November 2007
Line 8:		Line 8:
	# Story segments will be long, not short. The segments will contain real action, not two sentences of fluff followed by another ridiculous choice.		# Story segments will be long, not short. The segments will contain real action, not two sentences of fluff followed by another ridiculous choice.
	# Branches will be a small number of meaningful alternatives, not a long wall of nearly identical choices.		# Branches will be a small number of meaningful alternatives, not a long wall of nearly identical choices.
			--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 05:12, 15 November 2007 (EST)

Fish at 10:12, 15 November 2007

2007-11-15T10:12:17Z

← Older revision	Revision as of 05:12, 15 November 2007
Line 1:	Line 1:
		My objectives here with this choose-your-own-ending story are several. First, I need to get writing again, even if it's in small chunks. Second, I have a lot of disconnected story ideas that I felt could all be mashed together in an all-encompassing story such as this.

		I have seen a number of CYOE stories on the Internet. Some of them start out well, and some start out poorly, but most of them go downhill in quality after a time, no matter how well-intentioned the starting author. This is because there are several pitfalls with unrestricted anything-goes editing, and there are a number of traps in CYOE design that I am determined to avoid. So here are my goals:

		# All the characters will have a personality. The lead character will ''not'' be a cipher, a blank slate, a victim with no purpose other than to move from fetish to fetish.
		# The characters will each have an emotional hook, upon which to hang their story branches. For instance, one character's hook will be about confronting his fears; each story branch will therefore boil down to Fear and Courage. Needless to say, the Fear branches will ''mostly'' be dead ends, or lead quickly to dead ends within a few segments. The character should progress toward branches that are courageous, for that way, he'll make an ''interesting'' character journey.
		# High quality will be maintained. This will happen because the WikiMedia software can (so I'm told) be constrained to permit editing only to registered Authors.
		# Story segments will be long, not short. The segments will contain real action, not two sentences of fluff followed by another ridiculous choice.
		# Branches will be a small number of meaningful alternatives, not a long wall of nearly identical choices.

Fish: Removing all content from page

2007-11-14T08:22:37Z

Removing all content from page

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:22, 14 November 2007
Line 1:		Line 1:
	~~== Discussion for Dreams, Inc. ==~~

	I'm not positive what I want from this project yet. I've got a chart in hand for all 10 characters, and which 3 options (Romance, Adventure, Thriller) each of those characters will have to start. After that, I don't really have any notion of where they're going. Mostly I'm writing this because I want to write something, but I haven't been able to write a single novel-length work lately — I get distracted or diverted or discouraged, and stop. This is something I can write in small, manageable pieces.

	Is this going to be a collaborative story effort, where anybody can edit in a new page? I doubt it — or at least it won't be freely editable by anybody anywhere. I'm considering letting people make submissions for it, but I am pretty picky about quality, so I haven't decided yet whether that'll happen.

	~~Also, I've got a short list of Things That Bug Me about other online branching-fiction, which I want to avoid in my treatment. These pet peeves include:~~

	~~#Low-quality porn. I want my pornography to be high-quality, damn it.~~
	#A multitude of near-identical choices, as in, "He turns into a dog, he turns into a big dog, he turns into a little dog, he turns into a medium-sized black dog, he turns into a slightly-smaller-but-still-medium-sized white dog, he turns into a dog with a bow on his collar, etc." where all of the options have virtually the same story direction.
	#Story branches that aren't controlled by the protagonist, like "suddenly the phone rang," or "suddenly a meteor struck," or "suddenly, he found a mysterious magic lamp on the ground next to him and he used it and he turned into a almost-medium-sized-but-slightly-larger-than-medium-but-not-so-large-as-large white and black dog."

	~~Right now this is just an outlet for me to write. Heaven knows where it's going.~~

	~~--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 20:24, 5 November 2007 (EST)~~

	I've come to a decision regarding the characters and the choices I want to present. It isn't possible to create a conventional story arc in a CYOE, but I have a way to steer the character in a meaningful direction, while at the same time creating some enforcement to the notion that all the choices in the charcter's story should be ''meaningful'' choices, not superficial. Each character will have an emotional core, and the choices presented at the end of every page should play off that emotional core somehow.
	*'''Axel'''. His emotional core is fear: he runs from the bully in the lobby, and he won't stand up for himself. All his choices are going to be related, in one way or another, to fear. For instance, in the Western scenario, when he is threatened by the gunslinger, does he run to the marshall to beg for protection, or does he defend himself? In the Witchfinder scenario, does he blindly obey the will of the mob, or does he stand up to them and demand that justice be done properly?
	*'''Damon'''. Damon is gay, but firmly closeted. This means he can never openly admit his love for Seth, a neglect Seth can't abide. He sees it as cowardice on Damon's part, a desire to keep secrets, to protect his sexuality in exchange for acceptance and a future career in baseball. So Damon's story choices are going to be along the divide between honesty and secrecy. In the Pirate scenario, does he admit that his first mate is really a woman? To reveal his first mate as a female in disguise protects only ''himself'' — it conveys the message to his pirate crew that he, Damon the captain, is bunked up with an honest-to-goodness woman. If Damon ''keeps'' Seth's secret, and insists that Seth is really a man, then he protects Seth's true nature and admits to the crew that he, Damon, must be gay.
	*'''John'''. He worries that he isn't manly enough. John's decisions are going to be along the lines of the macho, chest-thumping action-hero choices, and the actions of the true-to-life intellectual that he is. His date, Lynne, isn't likely to be impressed by machismo, so the more he tries to act like a Real Man, the more he'll alienate her.
	*'''Oliver'''. Oliver has pride, both in himself as a person, and in his race. He won't beg, he won't ask for help, he won't stoop to crime or dishonesty. He's got a very stiff neck, so in consequence, his most interesting story choices will be about pride: ask for help, accept help from one's enemies, beg, crawl — or turn away a helping hand, go it alone, stand tall, and possibly fail anyway.
	*'''Ramsey'''. Ramsey is from a culture that denigrates women, and he must learn to change these behaviors if he wishes to convince Marion that he is a worthy suitor. He should be presented with choices that reflect the dichotomy between chauvanism and equality.
	*'''Danae'''. She speaks five languages and she is an artist, but she cannot communicate her feelings or express herself well. She's always too worried about what others will think, and too devoted toward obeying the common will of the crowd. And yet, her ultimate desire is to become a fashion designer, and if she is to succeed, she will need to become more bold, more individual. Her choices should be along the lines of doing what she's told, doing what is standard and acceptable, and being an individual.
	*'''Hannah'''. She has two boyfriends. Her story won't be about her, but will be about keeping the two of them happy, as a threesome. Hannah must balance her choices between playing favorites with one or the other, between Duane and Erik.
	*'''Harley'''. Harley's rebellion has been a work in progress, escalating for years, and she has maintained the rebellion despite all the things it might cost her: her family's acceptance and understanding, her education, her job. The man she's after isn't too fond of her rebellion, either, and Harley's story choices must help her decide: am I rebelling because I want to be a rebel, or am I rebelling because I ''don't'' want to be something else? Who am I, really? What do I want to be? Will I give up a chance with Apollo to continue to rebel against nothing?
	*'''Sydney'''. She grew up wealthy, and on a small island. She has never lacked for anything, and everything has always been about her. Can she turn herself around and think of others for a change? Her choices should be clear: act in her own interests, or for the good of her friends.
	*'''Zoe'''. Zoe is compassionate and caring when it comes to other women, but bitter and hateful when it comes to men. Why does she hang on to this vengeful, petty anger? Can't she let it go? Her choices should give her the opportunity to flex her hatred, or to attempt forgiveness.
	~~--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 22:42, 6 November 2007 (EST)~~

	As a general rule, I'm going to try to give characters the biggest and most relevant decision, as early as possible. For instance, Damon's friend Seth appears in the pirate adventure, as the cabin boy — who has the body of a woman and is merely ''disguised'' as a pirate. (This happened more often than you might guess. Anne Bonney sailed with Calico Jack, for instance, and for part of that time she was disguised as a man, at least until she had proved her worth to the crew.) Damon's emotional hook is about secrets, particularly the fact that he refuses to come out of the closet. The biggest choice he can be faced with, therefore, is whether to spill Seth's secret. Oddly, if Damon announces that Seth is a woman — spilling her secret — he's doing it to protect himself. If Seth's pirate is a woman, the rest of the crew will be reassured that their captain, Damon, is straight. If Damon preserves Seth's secret, on the other hand, he is (in effect) announcing his own to the crew.

	So back to the rule of thumb: Damon's first choice is going to be to announce Seth's secret as a diversion from his own, or to conceal it. Thereafter I need never ask it again. This should particularly be true because I don't want four separate branches where Damon has the option of telling the crew about Seth. The reader has already turned aside from that choice once; it shouldn't come up again. The moment of revelation loses its impact.
	~~--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 06:34, 9 November 2007 (EST)~~



	~~Good luck with this. Looking forward to seeing the finished product. --[[User:Devin\|Devin]] 02:17, 14 November 2007 (EST)~~

Devin at 07:17, 14 November 2007

2007-11-14T07:17:26Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:17, 14 November 2007
Line 32:		Line 32:
	So back to the rule of thumb: Damon's first choice is going to be to announce Seth's secret as a diversion from his own, or to conceal it. Thereafter I need never ask it again. This should particularly be true because I don't want four separate branches where Damon has the option of telling the crew about Seth. The reader has already turned aside from that choice once; it shouldn't come up again. The moment of revelation loses its impact.		So back to the rule of thumb: Damon's first choice is going to be to announce Seth's secret as a diversion from his own, or to conceal it. Thereafter I need never ask it again. This should particularly be true because I don't want four separate branches where Damon has the option of telling the crew about Seth. The reader has already turned aside from that choice once; it shouldn't come up again. The moment of revelation loses its impact.
	--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 06:34, 9 November 2007 (EST)		--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 06:34, 9 November 2007 (EST)



			Good luck with this. Looking forward to seeing the finished product. --[[User:Devin\|Devin]] 02:17, 14 November 2007 (EST)

Fish at 11:34, 9 November 2007

2007-11-09T11:34:59Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:34, 9 November 2007
Line 31:		Line 31:

	So back to the rule of thumb: Damon's first choice is going to be to announce Seth's secret as a diversion from his own, or to conceal it. Thereafter I need never ask it again. This should particularly be true because I don't want four separate branches where Damon has the option of telling the crew about Seth. The reader has already turned aside from that choice once; it shouldn't come up again. The moment of revelation loses its impact.		So back to the rule of thumb: Damon's first choice is going to be to announce Seth's secret as a diversion from his own, or to conceal it. Thereafter I need never ask it again. This should particularly be true because I don't want four separate branches where Damon has the option of telling the crew about Seth. The reader has already turned aside from that choice once; it shouldn't come up again. The moment of revelation loses its impact.
			--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 06:34, 9 November 2007 (EST)

Fish at 08:28, 9 November 2007

2007-11-09T08:28:50Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:28, 9 November 2007
Line 27:		Line 27:
	*'''Zoe'''. Zoe is compassionate and caring when it comes to other women, but bitter and hateful when it comes to men. Why does she hang on to this vengeful, petty anger? Can't she let it go? Her choices should give her the opportunity to flex her hatred, or to attempt forgiveness.		*'''Zoe'''. Zoe is compassionate and caring when it comes to other women, but bitter and hateful when it comes to men. Why does she hang on to this vengeful, petty anger? Can't she let it go? Her choices should give her the opportunity to flex her hatred, or to attempt forgiveness.
	--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 22:42, 6 November 2007 (EST)		--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 22:42, 6 November 2007 (EST)

			As a general rule, I'm going to try to give characters the biggest and most relevant decision, as early as possible. For instance, Damon's friend Seth appears in the pirate adventure, as the cabin boy — who has the body of a woman and is merely ''disguised'' as a pirate. (This happened more often than you might guess. Anne Bonney sailed with Calico Jack, for instance, and for part of that time she was disguised as a man, at least until she had proved her worth to the crew.) Damon's emotional hook is about secrets, particularly the fact that he refuses to come out of the closet. The biggest choice he can be faced with, therefore, is whether to spill Seth's secret. Oddly, if Damon announces that Seth is a woman — spilling her secret — he's doing it to protect himself. If Seth's pirate is a woman, the rest of the crew will be reassured that their captain, Damon, is straight. If Damon preserves Seth's secret, on the other hand, he is (in effect) announcing his own to the crew.

			So back to the rule of thumb: Damon's first choice is going to be to announce Seth's secret as a diversion from his own, or to conceal it. Thereafter I need never ask it again. This should particularly be true because I don't want four separate branches where Damon has the option of telling the crew about Seth. The reader has already turned aside from that choice once; it shouldn't come up again. The moment of revelation loses its impact.

Fish at 03:42, 7 November 2007

2007-11-07T03:42:51Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:42, 6 November 2007
Line 26:		Line 26:
	*'''Sydney'''. She grew up wealthy, and on a small island. She has never lacked for anything, and everything has always been about her. Can she turn herself around and think of others for a change? Her choices should be clear: act in her own interests, or for the good of her friends.		*'''Sydney'''. She grew up wealthy, and on a small island. She has never lacked for anything, and everything has always been about her. Can she turn herself around and think of others for a change? Her choices should be clear: act in her own interests, or for the good of her friends.
	*'''Zoe'''. Zoe is compassionate and caring when it comes to other women, but bitter and hateful when it comes to men. Why does she hang on to this vengeful, petty anger? Can't she let it go? Her choices should give her the opportunity to flex her hatred, or to attempt forgiveness.		*'''Zoe'''. Zoe is compassionate and caring when it comes to other women, but bitter and hateful when it comes to men. Why does she hang on to this vengeful, petty anger? Can't she let it go? Her choices should give her the opportunity to flex her hatred, or to attempt forgiveness.
			--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 22:42, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Fish at 03:42, 7 November 2007

2007-11-07T03:42:04Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:42, 6 November 2007
Line 14:		Line 14:

	--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 20:24, 5 November 2007 (EST)		--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 20:24, 5 November 2007 (EST)

			I've come to a decision regarding the characters and the choices I want to present. It isn't possible to create a conventional story arc in a CYOE, but I have a way to steer the character in a meaningful direction, while at the same time creating some enforcement to the notion that all the choices in the charcter's story should be ''meaningful'' choices, not superficial. Each character will have an emotional core, and the choices presented at the end of every page should play off that emotional core somehow.
			*'''Axel'''. His emotional core is fear: he runs from the bully in the lobby, and he won't stand up for himself. All his choices are going to be related, in one way or another, to fear. For instance, in the Western scenario, when he is threatened by the gunslinger, does he run to the marshall to beg for protection, or does he defend himself? In the Witchfinder scenario, does he blindly obey the will of the mob, or does he stand up to them and demand that justice be done properly?
			*'''Damon'''. Damon is gay, but firmly closeted. This means he can never openly admit his love for Seth, a neglect Seth can't abide. He sees it as cowardice on Damon's part, a desire to keep secrets, to protect his sexuality in exchange for acceptance and a future career in baseball. So Damon's story choices are going to be along the divide between honesty and secrecy. In the Pirate scenario, does he admit that his first mate is really a woman? To reveal his first mate as a female in disguise protects only ''himself'' — it conveys the message to his pirate crew that he, Damon the captain, is bunked up with an honest-to-goodness woman. If Damon ''keeps'' Seth's secret, and insists that Seth is really a man, then he protects Seth's true nature and admits to the crew that he, Damon, must be gay.
			*'''John'''. He worries that he isn't manly enough. John's decisions are going to be along the lines of the macho, chest-thumping action-hero choices, and the actions of the true-to-life intellectual that he is. His date, Lynne, isn't likely to be impressed by machismo, so the more he tries to act like a Real Man, the more he'll alienate her.
			*'''Oliver'''. Oliver has pride, both in himself as a person, and in his race. He won't beg, he won't ask for help, he won't stoop to crime or dishonesty. He's got a very stiff neck, so in consequence, his most interesting story choices will be about pride: ask for help, accept help from one's enemies, beg, crawl — or turn away a helping hand, go it alone, stand tall, and possibly fail anyway.
			*'''Ramsey'''. Ramsey is from a culture that denigrates women, and he must learn to change these behaviors if he wishes to convince Marion that he is a worthy suitor. He should be presented with choices that reflect the dichotomy between chauvanism and equality.
			*'''Danae'''. She speaks five languages and she is an artist, but she cannot communicate her feelings or express herself well. She's always too worried about what others will think, and too devoted toward obeying the common will of the crowd. And yet, her ultimate desire is to become a fashion designer, and if she is to succeed, she will need to become more bold, more individual. Her choices should be along the lines of doing what she's told, doing what is standard and acceptable, and being an individual.
			*'''Hannah'''. She has two boyfriends. Her story won't be about her, but will be about keeping the two of them happy, as a threesome. Hannah must balance her choices between playing favorites with one or the other, between Duane and Erik.
			*'''Harley'''. Harley's rebellion has been a work in progress, escalating for years, and she has maintained the rebellion despite all the things it might cost her: her family's acceptance and understanding, her education, her job. The man she's after isn't too fond of her rebellion, either, and Harley's story choices must help her decide: am I rebelling because I want to be a rebel, or am I rebelling because I ''don't'' want to be something else? Who am I, really? What do I want to be? Will I give up a chance with Apollo to continue to rebel against nothing?
			*'''Sydney'''. She grew up wealthy, and on a small island. She has never lacked for anything, and everything has always been about her. Can she turn herself around and think of others for a change? Her choices should be clear: act in her own interests, or for the good of her friends.
			*'''Zoe'''. Zoe is compassionate and caring when it comes to other women, but bitter and hateful when it comes to men. Why does she hang on to this vengeful, petty anger? Can't she let it go? Her choices should give her the opportunity to flex her hatred, or to attempt forgiveness.

Fish at 01:25, 6 November 2007

2007-11-06T01:25:08Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:25, 5 November 2007
Line 7:		Line 7:
	Also, I've got a short list of Things That Bug Me about other online branching-fiction, which I want to avoid in my treatment. These pet peeves include:		Also, I've got a short list of Things That Bug Me about other online branching-fiction, which I want to avoid in my treatment. These pet peeves include:

	##Low-quality porn. I want my pornography to be high-quality, damn it.		#Low-quality porn. I want my pornography to be high-quality, damn it.
	##A multitude of near-identical choices, as in, "He turns into a dog, he turns into a big dog, he turns into a little dog, he turns into a medium-sized black dog, he turns into a slightly-smaller-but-still-medium-sized white dog, he turns into a dog with a bow on his collar, etc." where all of the options have virtually the same story direction.		#A multitude of near-identical choices, as in, "He turns into a dog, he turns into a big dog, he turns into a little dog, he turns into a medium-sized black dog, he turns into a slightly-smaller-but-still-medium-sized white dog, he turns into a dog with a bow on his collar, etc." where all of the options have virtually the same story direction.
	##Story branches that aren't controlled by the protagonist, like "suddenly the phone rang," or "suddenly a meteor struck," or "suddenly, he found a mysterious magic lamp on the ground next to him and he used it and he turned into a almost-medium-sized-but-slightly-larger-than-medium-but-not-so-large-as-large white and black dog."		#Story branches that aren't controlled by the protagonist, like "suddenly the phone rang," or "suddenly a meteor struck," or "suddenly, he found a mysterious magic lamp on the ground next to him and he used it and he turned into a almost-medium-sized-but-slightly-larger-than-medium-but-not-so-large-as-large white and black dog."

	Right now this is just an outlet for me to write. Heaven knows where it's going.		Right now this is just an outlet for me to write. Heaven knows where it's going.

	--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 20:24, 5 November 2007 (EST)		--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 20:24, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Fish at 01:24, 6 November 2007

2007-11-06T01:24:39Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:24, 5 November 2007
Line 12:		Line 12:

	Right now this is just an outlet for me to write. Heaven knows where it's going.		Right now this is just an outlet for me to write. Heaven knows where it's going.

			--[[User:Fish\|Fish]] 20:24, 5 November 2007 (EST)