Shifti - User contributions [en]

User talk:Chessrook44

2011-02-06T15:11:58Z

Argamis: chess after the 2011 crash site

I'm glad to see your paradise´s story [[User:Chessrook44|Unforseen Changes]] is back on the setting. =)

Paradise (Setting)

2011-02-05T22:13:30Z

Argamis: Added the link to Boss Hoss´s User page

{{Universe|Paradise}}

{{byline|author=Jon Buck
|user=JonBuck}}

A direct link '''[[User:JonBuck/A Kind of Paradise|To the original story.]]'''

=={{separator|f|Stories in Chronological Order}}==

Authors may add links to their stories as they happen in chronological order in story time. For a complete listing of all Paradise stories, since this list may be updated sporadically, see [[:Category:Paradise|the Paradise Category]].

'''2000'''
*[[User:Erastus/On the Outside Looking|On the Outside, Looking...]] ''(Through 2010) ([[User:Erastus|Erastus]])''

'''2001'''
*[[Ranty Raccoon]] ''(Digitalpotato)''

'''2002'''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Made Alone|Made Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Bathing Alone|Bathing Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Not Quite Alone|Not Quite Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Suspected Alone|Suspected Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Revealing Alone|Revealing Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''

'''2003'''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Convention Building|Convention Building]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Model Building | Model Building]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Change Building | Change Building]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Confession Building | Confession Building]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''

'''2004'''
*[[User_talk:Enphilistor| Victory Starts Here]] [recovered from google cache] ''(Enphilistor)''

'''2005'''
*[[User:Jetfire/Holes in the Veil| Holes in the Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Robotech_Master/Capsule_Review:_Changed:_The_Unveiling|RPG.net Capsule Review: Changed: The Unveiling]] ''([[User:Robotech_Master|Robotech_Master]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Lifting The Veil| Lifting The Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Poking the Veil| Poking the Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Stages|Stages]] (Through October 2006) ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''

'''2006'''
*[[User:Jetfire/Film at 2011| Film at 2011]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/GM'O'Fur| GM'O'Fur]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Twisting the Veil| Twisting the Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Silver Fox Tracks|Silver Fox Tracks]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Generations| Generations]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/A Rolling Stone Gathers No Veil|A Rolling Stone Gathers No Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Auld Lang Syne|Auld Lang Syne]] (Extends into 2007) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Reverberations|Reverberations]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Bare Hands|Bare Hands]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''

'''2007'''
*[[User:Eirik/Treatment|Treatment]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/It Bears Investigation|It Bears Investigation]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Gaming Furs|Gaming Furs]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:JonBuck/A Kind of Paradise|A Kind of Paradise]] ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Radio No Veil|Radio No Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Six Furries and a Wedding|Six Furries and a Wedding]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:JonBuck/Tall Tales|Tall Tales]] ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''
*[[User:Nikon/Changing Perspectives|Changing Perspectives]] ''([[User:Nikon|Nikon]])''
*[[User:Nikon/Back to Reality|Back to Reality]] ''([[User:Nikon|Nikon]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Clearing the Air|Clearing the Air]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Waters_So_Cold_and_Deep|Waters So Cold and Deep]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Doing Hard Time|Doing Hard Time]] (Extends into 2008) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[Monkey Business]] ''([[User:Boss Hoss|Boss Hoss]])''
*[[User:Nikon/Coming Home|Coming Home]] (guess based on posting date) ''([[User:Nikon|Nikon]])''

'''2008'''
*[[User:Jetfire/Live_At_Five|Live At Five]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Rising Waters|Rising Waters]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Gulf_Ice|Gulf Ice]] (Prelude in 2001) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/The_Bear_Facts|The Bear Facts]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Election Fever|Election Fever]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Centers of Power|Centers of Power]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''
*[[User:JonBuck/Open Secrets|Open Secrets]] ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''
*[[User:WolfyDrake95/New_World|New World]] ''([[User:WolfyDrake95|WolfyDrake95]])''
*[[User:WolfyDrake95/To_a_Friend|To a Friend]] ''([[User:WolfyDrake95|WolfyDrake95]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Special Care|Special Care]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/NorBAC|NorBAC]] (begins in June; jumps to September) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Judge_Judy:_Deagle_vs_Anderson|Judge Judy: Deagle vs Anderson]] (2008 or 2009) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''

'''2009'''
*[[User:JonBuck/After Hours|After Hours]] ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''

'''2010'''
*[[User:JonBuck/Changing America|Changing America]] (work in progress) ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''
*[[User:Robotech_Master/See Change: March 20, 2010|See Change: March 20, 2010]] ''([[User:Robotech_Master|Robotech_Master]])''
*[[User:Robotech_Master/Tiffnapped|Tiffnapped]] ''([[User:Robotech_Master|Robotech_Master]])''
*[[User:Robotech_Master/Holding Helena|Holding Helena]] ''([[User:Robotech_Master|Robotech_Master]])''

'''Alternate Future'''
*[[Cascade Failure]]

=={{separator|f|Basics}}==
*The setting is basically indistinguishable from the Real World up until 1987, the year when people first begin to spontaneously transform into furries.
*Exactly one person transformed in Year One ''(i.e.,'' 1987), and the number of furries doubles in late August each year. The initial story in this setting, [[User:JonBuck/A Kind of Paradise|A Kind of Paradise]], is set in Year 21 ''(i.e.,'' 2007), when there are just over one million furries. The next year (2008) will add a million, for a total of two megafurries, and so forth.
*The first furry in 1987 was a vixen, with a tod the next year. Some stereotypes do have a basis in "reality". :)
**The entire world will be furry in 2020.
*Every year it's possible that an already-changed person could change ''again''. With increasing rarity, all less than one percent:
**A species change. ("What the..? I'm a ''wolf'' now? What am I supposed to do with all these hoof picks?")
**A gender change. ("Where do men put this ''thing'' between our legs when we sit down?")
**A combination of both. ("Don't ''even'' call me a bitch! Just show me how to put on this stupid bra!")
**The next year there is about a 25% chance that the person will revert to their original gender/first species. If that doesn't happen, it's fixed. If they change back... there's another 25% chance that you'll bounce back ''again'' the next year. So there's some potential for characters who spend years alternating between species/gender.
*Also distinctive from Winds of Change: ''No superpowers''. Just whatever natural abilities (things like augmented senses, physical strength, ''etc)'' come from being half animal.
*'''The Role Reversal Paradox.'''
**''IF'' the couple has children, pre- or post-Change, no matter what age...
**''IF'' one of the couple has been transgendered...
**''THEN'' it is essentially a sure thing that the partner will TG as well.
**The reason for this is simple. ROB hates paradoxes. If they have children, there ''must'' be a father and a mother. And it ''must'' be the same two people. It doesn't matter if that person divorced and remarried someone else. Or if they're unmarried. One father, one mother. Otherwise, the kids will logically not have come into existence.
**Conversely, if they are married/going out/living together/etc., the same TG 1% dice roll applies to them as everyone else.

'''Important.''' Please ''do not'' write stories that are father ahead in the timeline than those I have written.''

'''Note on Politics'''. As a request, I ask authors not to use major political figures from Real Life. I don't want any political bashing going on here. Characters like Congressman Sandrick are perfectly fine, so feel free to create fictional members of Congress or Members of Parliament. Remember this world is different from ours from 1987 onwards. There are still details I haven't filled in between then and now, and the Butterfly Effect means that there will be some small, some major differences.

{{add|'''Winners of the 2008 Election'''}}
*President: Karen Hutchinson. (Reverse Pres. Obama and his wife, basically)
*VP: Steven Angstrom

===The Transgendered===
Just a few details.
#This is an earlier, generally harmless virus that got into the simulation. ROB dealt with it by the "history editing" as described in the stories.
#It's been around a LOT longer than the Furry Virus.
#Even though it's probably been around for thousands of years, there are far fewer victims than the Furry Virus as of 2009. I imagine the furry virus co-opted this one for the TGed furs.
#As in real life, there are many more male to female victims than the other way around.
#Transgendered victims have little or no support system like furries do. They're generally isolated. And before 2009 couldn't see through the RDF.

===Physiology===

*Furries can still interbreed with one another as if they were all still human. Children get a 50/50 chance of which of the parents' species they follow.
*Conversely, humans '''cannot''' interbreed with furries, probably due to the RDF.
*There are some physical variations, but not the wide "Degrees" that Winds of Change has. The most obvious differences are hair, feet, and hands. Otherwise, most everyone is about as morphic as seen in common furry art.
**Females most often have hair the same color and similar texture as their fur. Though you do still get the occasional blond.
**Males retain their hair less frequently.
*'''Size Limitations.''' On the suggestion from the Talk page. I'm not going to limit species. However, I will have a minimum/maximum size range:
**7 feet (or 2.1m), max. About 600 lb (272 kg), max.
**4 feet (1.2m). I'll leave the small side open.
*Species are native to a particular continent. So most people in North America will end up whitetail deer, elk, bears, foxes, wolves, etc. Recent immigrants will more likely end up native species to wherever they came from.
**However, this means that someone from Seattle could ''still'' end up a leopard, or a llama, or what-have-you from other continents. I just want to make that clear.
**No mythicals like dragons, griffins, satyrs, vampires, mages, what-have-you. Just furries.
**No birds, reptiles, or other non-mammals.
*'''No Extinct Species.''' No dinosaurs. Sadly, I can't include them. There are so many species that are just too big.
*'''Note on Transsexuals'''. This setting is intended as a mix of wish fulfillment and darker, more realistic consequences. That said, all TS folks get their bodies "corrected". Keep in mind that this won't necessarily make life easier for said character. Conflict generates Plot. And since most of the folks who get their gender switched ''won't'' be TS, there's still plenty of that around.
*Results of major surgeries are translated. Artificial hips, knees and pacemakers still work as needed. Transplant patients will not reject their organs. However, lost limbs will not regenerate and major chronic diseases will not be cured, but may go into a lengthy remission.
*One of the major benefits is a major improvement in health and fitness. ROB can't stop the change, but at least he can give the victims a sort of consolation prize. You may not end up in perfect shape, but it'll be close. A flood of positive endorphins to make the victim feel good about their new bodies doesn't hurt, either (optional). Now, what happens to that state of fitness ''after'' is entirely up to your characters.

===Psychology===
*At this point I'm inclined to have some mitigating effects on the "victims". It's still going to be very, very hard to deal with. This is a major life disruption. And there are no doubt a lot of secluded furs. But suicides aren't as common as you'd think.
*The transgendered furs do have an even rougher time. The double-whammy of species and gender would likely make serious post-change Issues a reality.
**Transgendered furs typically refer to themselves by their initials: BD, DL, etc..
**Some might end up going a little crazy and think they had ''always been'' their new gender, especially after the effects of Tall Tales Con.
*The more adjusted furs have figured out how to find these troubled souls and bring them back into the real world.

=={{separator|f|The Reality Distortion Field (Veil)}}==
*Humans can't see furries for what they are. They still see whatever the person looked like before, even if that person was the opposite gender.
*Some things aren't filtered correctly. Consequently...
**If a TGed man gets pregnant, the filter will change that person's ghost image to female. But she will still appear human to other humans.
**Things like hoof/paw prints, shed fur, shed antlers, clawmarks, animal odors, etc., are not filtered. So if a cougar morph gets in a fight with a normal human and lashes out with his claws, he could cause a hell of a lot of damage.
**Some humans think that there is something up (referred to as "Known" or "Friends"). And some have figured out that the friends who claim to be furry actually ''are'' what they claim to be.
*The RDF sometimes breaks down a little during large gatherings of furries (like at conventions). "Hey, that's the best costume I've ever seen! Is that a prosthetic muzzle?" Memories afterwards will probably remember some really good costumes, and photos will be perceived as such.
**In more extreme cases it will break down entirely. But it would take repeated exposures, or perhaps having a number of furry friends while remaining humans oneself. Like in [[User:Nikon/Changing_Perspectives|Changing Perspectives]].
**Transgendered furs may be perceived by humans as their new gender out of the corner of their eye. And there are likely other circumstances where the human RDF image will realign also. Specific circumstances (such as pregnancy) will be the decisive factor.
**As of 2007, TGed TallTales Con attendees have had a major RDF alteration. Everyone except family, friends, or people who have seen them often enough to really know, will perceive them as their new physical sex. Which is essentially the vast majority of people. This effect will spread to all the other TGed until 2008, when it becomes the norm.
**'''As of 2009''', all human ghosts now reflect their real gender, no matter who is looking.
*Do animals perceive the RDF? Probably not. But the odor of a fur is neither quite human or animal. There are still some common human pheromones, for example. Which is what makes romance between wolf and deer possible. This is a ''good'' thing, since it means that a doe-woman in heat won't be chased down by a normal buck.
*It may start to break down as there grow to be millions of furries in the world (see below).
*Another storytelling idea: The RDF is an ''antiviral measure'' (see The Cause below). When the RDF breaks down, people ''may'' change out-of-phase, since they no longer have that protection. This will make it harder to track down people who change and get them the help they need. This is ''not'' a hard-and-fast rule, but the storytelling device is available. But I '''don't''' want it to become commonplace.

==={{separator|f|Holes in the Veil}}===

As seen in [[User:JonBuck/After Hours|After Hours]], on August 29, 2009 the Veil started coming down.

*First one appeared in Hyannis, MA on August 29. It quickly expanded to (size to be determined) and outed every furry in town. Other holes appeared in and around Chicago. Without exception they appear first where there's been a recent or frequent concentration of furs.
*Holes start small, but will grow depending on how weak the RDF is in the area.
*As the RDF decays, furs will feel like they're wrapped in loose plastic. And there's something of a light show. The air shimmers. The air feels cleaner, fresher.
**The RDF is an extra "rendering layer" of sorts. Since until now all furs had lived with it, they only really notice it was there now that it's been taken away. Leaving a Hole a fur will feel like he or she is wearing clothing a size too small or too large, depending on how much they deviate from the human norm. A really sensitive fur might feel suffocated, as if they were wrapped in plastics. They'll feel irritable and given the right situation, may tear ''new'' Holes (which could make good story fodder).
*They're like soap bubbles in that if they encounter other holes, they'll grow even larger. All of them are still slowly expanding, and may jump to larger sizes at unpredictable intervals.
*ROB will start a controlled shutdown of the RDF over the course of the year. Its replacement will be a Weirdness Censor.
**The world is going furry crazy. But not ''crazy crazy''. Using a cooking analogy, it's like a foamed egg whites getting folded into a souffle or other dish that needs careful mixing, or the recipe falls apart.

*Furs feel much more comfortable with themselves inside the holes. To furs, the RDF feels like restrictive clothing. Doubly so for the TGed furs. Even normal humans feel better. Caveats:
**Normal humans who spend more and more time inside one of these holes run increasing risk of becoming furry at any time of the year ahead.
**Once the RDF is down completely in late 2010, the above may apply to everyone. The numbers are still doubling as below, but the August 17 restriction no longer applies. And as above, a TG can happen before a TF.
**Furries cease being humans in funny costumes. Their animal natures will more easily bob to the surface. This is partly for psychological reasons (don't have to hide any more). Partly due to the pressure from the RDF being gone.

=={{separator|f|The Numbers}}==

Total sequence as follows (all figures approximate):
Year AD Total Furries Total Populace Furries, as %age of total populace
1 1987 1 5,184,212,887 0.000 000 02%
2 1988 2 5,247,179,035 0.000 000 04%
3 1989 4 5,310,909,955 0.000 000 05%
4 1990 8 5,375,414,934 0.000 000 15%
5 1991 16 5,440,703,374 0.000 000 3%
6 1992 32 5,506,784,792 0.000 000 6%
7 1993 64 5,573,668,818 0.000 001 1%
8 1994 128 5,641,365,200 0.000 002%
9 1995 256 5,709,883,806 0.000 004%
10 1996 512 5,779,234,621 0.000 009%
11 1997 1,024 5,849,427,754 0.000 018%
12 1998 2,048 5,920,473,436 0.000 035%
13 1999 4,096 5,992,382,020 0.000 07%
14 2000 8,192 6,065,163,988 0.000 14%
15 2001 16,384 6,138,829,947 0.000 3%
16 2002 32,768 6,213,390,635 0.000 5%
17 2003 65,536 6,288,856,918 0.001%
18 2004 131,072 6,365,239,795 0.002%
19 2005 262,144 6,442,550,400 0.004%
20 2006 524,288 6,520,800,000 0.008%
21 2007 1,048,576 6,600,000,000 0.016%
22 2008 2,097,152 6,680,161,943 0.031%
23 2009 4,194,304 6,761,297,514 0.062%
24 2010 8,388,608 6,843,418,536 0.123%
25 2011 16,777,216 6,926,536,980 0.24%
26 2012 33,554,432 7,010,664,959 0.48%
27 2013 67,108,864 7,095,814,736 0.95%
28 2014 134,217,728 7,181,998,721 1.87%
29 2015 268,435,456 7,269,229,474 3.69%
30 2016 536,870,912 7,357,519,711 7.30%
31 2017 1,073,741,824 7,446,882,298 14.42%
32 2018 2,147,483,648 7,537,330,262 28.49%
33 2019 4,294,967,296 7,628,876,783 56.30%
34 2020 8,589,934,592 7,721,535,206 >100%

At this point stories should take place in '''2001 at the earliest''', up to the current story-time year. The community gets really, really small before then. If you have a story that takes place in this era, submit it to me first. Thank you.

Things should start to get really interesting around 2010. There's enough furs in the world then that niche markets would start to open up. More clothing and products specifically designed for furries start popping up. Also, it will become harder and harder to induct new furs into the group in a healthy manner. Society may start to break down in places.

It will take a concerted effort by those previously changed to keep everything under control...

'''Distribution.''' It's not random, or even. It's an expanding fractal centered on the Chicago area. As far as visualization, I'll leave that vague. But the majority of the first furs were in North America.

From the way these stories are playing out, I'd say that events are unfolding like this:

*'''1987-2002''': "Alone" period. Isolation between furries, with only a few very small groups, most of them thinking they're all alone. Best exemplified by [[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat's]] stories. Nobody knows what's going on.
*'''2002-2008''': Forming Communities. There's now enough furs to start encountering each other regularly. Conventions start up. Anthro imagery (in movies, TV shows, and other media) start to show up more frequently. Information getting put together indicates an ominous trend. The whole world will eventually go furry.
*'''2008-?''': Events unfolding in [[User:JonBuck/Open Secrets|Open Secrets]] will nail down this theme. {{add|From here for the next few years, a third to nearly a half of the new Changed will be Known/Friends or family members. People who can see through the Veil easily.}}

===Important Events===
This section will be for events of note that will be important to the overall storytelling. Authors feel free to note important events in your works that could impact the setting as a whole here.

'''2007'''
*First instances of total, permanent [[User:Nikon/Changing Perspectives|RDF breakdown]]. Incidents isolated.
*First appearance of anthro dolphins. The RDF with these people is a very strained affair. The longer they stay around humans, the more likely it'll fail. Perhaps it realigns the image as a normal dolphin in the water, and a human on land.
*'''Added 2/24.''' Transgendered furs at [[User:JonBuck/Tall Tales|Tall Tales Con]] now appear as their new physical gender to anyone but close friends and family. The RDF is even actively changing identification. Active records like passports and driver's licenses, medical records are all altered to reflect this. Even a pre-Change photo ID will show the new human face, which will be a shock to the TGed fur. This effect is slowly spreading to other TGed furs, see [[User:Jetfire/Doing Hard Time|Doing Hard Time]].
*A number of pressing environmental problems relax slightly. While these solutions will solve some problems, they will cause others, especially in the short term.
**The recovery of the major world fisheries detected in the mid-90s continues apace.
**Major discoveries in energy include massive oilfields in various stable First World nations: US, Canada, UK, Norway, etc..
**Scientists observe CO2 levels stabilizing for currently unknown reasons.
**Third World experiences boosts in food production from improved farming practices and soil conditions.
**New renewable energy discoveries, new batteries, a bacterial process for making gasoline and diesel from municipal wastewater.
*With all these new furs, there are now enough singles to start pairing up. The lingering worries about fertility and children will be answered next year...

'''2008'''
*Fallout from Tall Tales Con continues. All newbie and furry gatherings the next year will be much, much smaller, informal.
*Although there were a few before this year, this is the first year a large number of furry babies will be born.
*A Changed rabbit appears as ''Playboy'''s September Playmate of the Month (though only other Changed/Changed-sensitive know it until later).

'''2009'''
*This Change Day will be different from the others. Instead of all happening in the same moment, the new furs will happen in fits and starts throughout the day. Some might change in the early morning, others late that night. The trend will continue over the next few years.
**Another wrinkle. If there's a TG, they don't have to happen at the same time. So some poor fellow who becomes a clouded leopard in the morning (or a woman) will get hit again sometime later.
* The shoe field died in 2008. Now the Veil no longer hides clothing modifications. For some furs this might be a Veil-breaker. We will see.
*Since [[User:JonBuck/Open Secrets|Open Secrets]], the secret is functionally out, though a sort of [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WeirdnessCensor Weirdness Censor] is in place, possibly due to widespread denial. Furry imagery started to dominate the media after the first of the year, especially on medical dramas and "what if" shows on National Geographic, Discovery Channel, even the Food Network. Mostly done with CGI, a few shows used furry actors and cameras able to see through the Veil. More to be revealed in [[User:JonBuck/After Hours|After Hours]].
* '''The Shutdown''', August 17-25. With a major Sleeping Sickness outbreak, much of the world economy shut down for a little over a week, with only essential services (energy, food transport, etc.) kept running. Similar to what Mexico did during the Swine Flu outbreak. Later they are accused of overreacting, as Sleeping Sickness seems to leave a minuscule number of deaths, and the victims healthier than before they contracted it.

'''2010'''
*Tiffany Tanner appears as the first Changed to play a Changed in a recurring role on daytime television. With the aid of a special lens, Tiffany's character "Felice Hunter" on ''One Life to Live'' dramatizes the plight of Changed forced to keep secrets from family and friends. Her stint on the show is briefly interrupted when she is kidnapped for several weeks, after which she again makes headlines as one of "Melton's Eleven," eleven furres who had been kidnapped for the private amusement of a twisted, reclusive millionaire (who vanished shortly before they escaped).

=={{separator|f|The Cause}}==

So, why is this happening? What's causing it? A nanotech virus? Microscopic magic pixies? The return of magic? The wrath of God? What?

The answer is contained in '''[[User:JonBuck/Tall Tales|Tall Tales]]'''.

However, the idea is this. Ever since I read [http://www.accelerando.org/ ''Accelerando''] By Charles Stross, I've been enamored with the idea of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity technological Singularity]. So I've been looking for a way to use it in my fiction at one point. This setting provides the answer to that desire. ''Accelerando'' is available for free on the web.

Our universe--or perhaps just our planet, I haven't decided yet--and all the people in it, are basically a simulation. This doesn't make the characters in these stories any less real than you our I. Mathematics forms the basis of the universe, after all. The people are as sentient as you or I. This makes the setting rather Matrix-like, without the human bodies being used as "batteries". We're all more like Agent Smith.

I refer to this as a "furry virus". It comes from outside the post-Singularity brain, and is slightly more advanced than "ours". What's happening is this bit of malicious code (sentient, no less, but on a level far beyond our ability to comprehend it) is messing up the simulated world we reside in. Why? I dunno. One of those inscrutable things. The RDF is an antiviral measure to contain the damage and allow the society within to adapt. This is also why so far, furry species are limited to mammals. As the numbers of furs increase, that ''will'' change. I have yet to decide just when.

Why not just scrap the whole thing and restore from backup? There are no backups because the simulated people are nevertheless living beings. And they can't just be wiped out.

I hope that explanation isn't too confusing. Please let me know on the '''[[Talk:Paradise (Setting)|Talk Page]]''' if you have questions.

=={{separator|f|Notes on Avatars}}==
So far, the convention for avatars in this setting is for writers to use the first initials of first and last names. However, I wanted to note that my intent here is to give the writer more freedom than to base these characters on yourself. I've changed a lot of details about Jerome, for instance. If you want to put your avatar--if you decide to use one--into this setting, go crazy. Give them a challenge (worse job, emotional trouble). Or make them better off and have the change cause a lot of trouble with work/family/whatever. What I'm trying to say here is, don't feel you have to be directly limited by your present or past self. ''Have fun.''

=={{separator|f|Important Cast}}==

'''[[Paradise Cast List]]'''

Since this is a wiki, that means everyone can edit it. Authors who want to put names and short bios of the characters in their stories, just in case someone else wants to use them for a cameo. With the characters, please list the stories that they appear in. Please put your cast members on the linked cast page. Thank you.

[[Category:Paradise]]

Talk:Paradise (Setting)

2011-02-05T13:29:41Z

Argamis: / Human/Furry detail -> sight /

It's an interesting setting, what I've read so far, and I've got an idea or two percolating that may or may not come to fruition. A seed is trying to sprout for an idea starting in '05 and going forward. - [[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 19:50, 10 January 2008

---

After the 2011 crash, the setting lost the most newer storys and the enrichment data inside their related Talk_Pages.
Maybe we can get back these with this -> [http://www.archive.org/web/web.php Internet Wayback Machine] in the far-far future (when the data gets very very old, its then available there).

If the "Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like an array that canalize the flow of "hot ideas" through it´s "insulated tube-rules" (preventing the "leaking and cooling" of the new storys in their necesary "plot-curves" and "bottlenecks-dramas"). . .
Then the "Talk:Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like the Virtual Remote Control Panel for that powergrid. When a new "hot idea" pop up in the wrong place or it´s going the wrong direction, a colision alarm sound here!.
The "already resolved discussions" divert automatically the issue, and for the real original new ones, at last offer a series of nearby "exhaust valves" designed for the protection of the "global setting" system.
:--[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 21:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Theory on how the Change 'spreads' ==

Been thinking about how it might spread, such that we have a higher proportion of Changed in NA, but not leaving the rest of the world out, and I think I know how.

The 'computer virus' that Changes people, uses the RDF to spread itself. Our 'program's' own protection method is also spreading the damages.

Basically, I am guessing that if the RDF needs to kick in on you, then you are passively 'infected'.

Then, when August 17th comes around, the Virus triggers itself, but it for whatever reason can only copy itself for every previously Changed person. (The Doubling effect), and it can only affect people that have been passively infected, ie people who have had the RDF kick in on them.

The goal of the virus is to spread as far as it can, so it takes the number of new Changed it can, and spreads it more or less evenly across the available (RDF-affected) population.

So the first Changed is in Chicago (I think). Through the year until the next Change, she will encounter thousands of people, even in passing, which triggers the RDF on them and passively infects them.

Come August, 1988, the next Changed will be picked randomly from those thousands of people, and now we'll have 2 people spreading the RDF virus. 1989, a big chunk of Chicago has probably had the RDF trigger at least once, not to mention some tourists and other visitors to the city.

In 89, we get 2 more Changed, and one of them could possibly be in a different random city, just because he'd been to Chicago in the past 2 years and unknowingly seen a Changed, and a new nest of RDF-field affected people starts up.

European and Asian and Oceanic outbreaks could happen in years to come as the number of tourists and business people from those reasons travel into North America and begin to be fielded and infected themselves.

The 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City probably 'infected' most of the people who were around and watching, meaning that by then (if not before) pretty much anyone has a chance to be Changed.

It also means that truly isolated areas of the world (South Pacific islands, isolated Amazonian tribes, etc) could potentially be unchanged after the 2020 deadline; but any encounter at all with a Changed would likely Change them immediately and spread like wildfire through the village)

And while the RDF may 'fail' at some point, it'll probably still be around in a less effective form, trying to maintain some stability and spreading the Change. --[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]
:I'll give that some thought. It's somewhat similar to something I already had in mind. Perhaps those who have the RDF fail completely will be much more likely to change the next year, or they might even change out-of-phase. In any case, once they figure out that it's like a communicable disease, and everyone is already 'infected', the remaining humans will go nuts. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 12:35, 27 January 2008 (EST)

The spread and the exact reason for the "double" number each year, is as if the virus had only one chance per year to run it´s replication part code. (And someone sugest the use of "infected flags" for the furry virus to later identify the already changed).

The fractal-but-random nature of the spread means the Virus need the furrys alive for it´s reproduction, but not proximity at all (probably because the "computronium cloud" it´s an 11-dimension construct); so when the change secuence start, it´s because a "superior computational request" (diferent from the virus itself) has the need to do something to all the humans in the world, but not something that change all of them in a masive, blind generic "*.*" way.

If the detection of a emergent post-human-like inteligence is the reason of the "simulation", then it´s logical for the "server" to execute some "checking subrutine" regulary (once per year) on the most inteligent elements; stoping the propagation of uber-mutated-code things that come from outside the simulation.
If the server detects something "wrong" in a human, then It will try to correct any mistakes wihout killing him/her. --[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 00:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I had my theory of how it works the spread:
Every time one furry see/hear another furry (under the efect of the RDF) the Virus of both exchange <IP-person> links of eachother and save this in the "already changed" Virus Flag.
When a non-infected human see/hear a furry, the Virus try to do some "minor modifications" on the human through the RDF, and then set a "infected" Virus flag on his/her data.

When the server "anual check" detect a human with an "infected" Virus flag, thinks that some very critical "code" is missing in that human, and found a message like: "there is a copy of the same code here: <IP-(furry)person>" (this message and the "missing part" of the code, were the "minor modifications" made by the RDF-Interactive-Section of the Furry Virus).
{The TG Virus do not had this "tricky message" in it´s code, and has to wait the ocurrence of an eventual "copy&paste" for his activation/reproduction (this explain the few hundred human affected for this in thousands of years...), then the relationship between the TG Virus and the Furry Virus is a parasite one (or maybe mutualism, we do not know for sure).}

The server now go to the IP-furry_person and check him/her (see more below), then copy the complete code of the Virus and paste-it in the middle of the code of the "infected" human (because has more elevated access privileges, the "server" can write directly on the most "critical" and "active" part of the code of the infected human, the Virus itself can´t do that); then his/her body it´s "corrected" with the furry data "carried" by the living furry that infected his/her previusly.
The Server set a "xxxx check: DONE" server flag in the new furry (xxxx is the year).
The Virus check the flags, change the "infected" to "already changed" on the newbie furry, and modify his <IP_person> to a higher number (this way every year the server check only the humans and the "infected" humans first).

When the server check a furry, (without the "xxxx check: DONE" of that year) see the "already changed" flag like a "minor" error code, then try to restore his/her original (human) form; but the Virus uses the list of <IP-furry> links, and copy&paste the same Virus code again and again from multiple sources... {this is only posible between furry<->furry , the read&write its not restricted between active "brother" Viruses. In fact some "real virus" an P2P users works like this ^_^)
The server left the furry "minor" code intact, but set "xxxx check: FAIL" flag on him/her and go for the next...
Every time one infected human goes furry, the "check" on the previus furry Virus "carrier" blocks any posibility of ANOTHER human infected (by the same "carrier") goes to furry that year.

This way, every year the contact between every group of furries<->humans AND furries<->furries it´s equal in importance (for the expansion of the Virus) as it was the previusly year, the IP-furry-links only can double the efective total number of furry if already exist some conection between all of they (pasive in great citys, active search&contact in more remote regions). --[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 00:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

== Change and disabilities? ==

I keep forgetting to bring this up on IRC, but how do people (as in writers and other interested people in this setting) think disabilities would be affected by the change? Both Mental and Physical?

Would a paraplegic who lost his legs in an accident regrow them if he changed? Would he regain the use of them if they weren't lost but just disabled? (back injury)? What about false teeth, deafness, blindness, etc?

What if the cause was not from a physical accident, but was viral or bacterial in nature? Some disease struck them blind? Would they stay blind?

And what if the disabilities were genetic? Would those genetic flaws still show in the new form?

Finally, what about mental disabilities? Could the Change 'cure' Alzheimer's? Would it affect someone who is literally a brain dead vegetable on life support?

If it does have curative properties, I suspect we'll start seeing more and more miracle cures (assuming they can survive the flu) in the years to come. Which may imply that there'll be a push in the early to mid 2010's to just keep someone alive as long as possible in the home they Change and are cured/fixed.

Thoughts?

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 11:00, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:I think there are good arguments to be made for some healing properties of the Change, but I wouldn't make it go all out. A person missing a limb should still be missing a limb after the change (I have in mind a scene with a one-armed pianist who goes monkey and starts playing with his feet).

:When it comes to things like Alzheimer's, that is a much more difficult choice. I don't see mental retardation being suddenly healed by the Change, as that is a birth defect (and such things happen in animals too). But progressive diseases may backtrack, even if the conditions begin to return over time. That could make an even more painful story, somebody suffering from Alzheimer's, who Changes and now recognizes all his family again. But after a year or so everything starts to slip away again...

:Anyway, the whole keeping folks alive and hoping for a Change could make a good dynamic too. I just think there's a lot fo possibilities to consider before we make a decision on this. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:24, 4 February 2008 (EST)
::I'm inclined to do as Matthias suggests. It's more or less what I had in mind. However, one of the things that the Change does is it puts everyone in very good health. Even being a 300 pound female bear, CM is in very good shape. It will cure some ailments, and put chronic diseases into remission. Those developments will confuse the medical community enough without regrowing limbs or curing Down's Syndrome. But if you've read the latest Tall Tales, ROB is being forced to act more openly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 15:40, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:What happens to medical devices like heart pacemakers or hip replacements that were implanted in people before they changed? --[[User:JeniSkunk|Jenifur Charne]] 20:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::That's basically an open-ended question. I'm going to leave the answer to that one unsaid because I think it'd be a good Plot Point in a story. A furry episode of ''House'' maybe? --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::Late into the discussion, but better late than never. : ) Anyway, what about things like fillings and caps on teeth? Going to a dentist would be interesting. Going another step, outside medical devices wouldn't fit anymore and would bring up some unique delimas. What about people with prosthetics? If someone turns into a bear, I'm sure their leg isn't going to fit anymore, yet Unknown will wonder why they make such a claim all of a sudden. Lots of places to go with these stories. [[User:Tinbender|Tinbender]] 21:24, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Hey, not really sure on any of the points raised, have to give it some thought. One thing to consider though is can anthro's act as a bridge to humans for viruses that currently only affect animals?--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 23:35, 10 February 2008 (EST)

== A mortal analysis of Paradise ==

Lets me see if I get some of the details right.

There is a post-singularity Uber-computer, that when projected into 3-space, has the same consistency as humanity's combined thumbnail and happens to be running a simulation of the events leading up to its own creation. Secondly, it gets infected by a super-bug/virus that makes borg nano-probes look overly large and cumbersome. Said post-singularity, sentient, ROB-type entity/ virus changes some lines of code (if such things can be referred to as such) in reference to the people in the simulation, in and around the vicinity of Chicago (maybe the super-bug's designers had way-distant ancestors from there, or whose ancestors had a grudge against the place). The Uber-comp, in a flash of inspiration counters with the 'firewall-from-not-heck', or RDF as we understand it. The ROB is still successful with its dastardly and despicable plan to make the simulated history end differently.

That I get as far as it can be understood by a three-dimensional entity not particularly versed in post-singularity, multi-dimensional physics and computational theory.

The RDF, The Veil, The "Really-Annoying-Mess-Up-Everyones-Lives" Field, appears to start collapsing or 'twisting' in several personal accounts. In fact, it would seem that there are certain individuals who have appeared to figure out means of 'gazing-past' the gaps in said previously mentioned field even though they do not have one of their own. Yes it has been theorized that they will soon fall victim to the ROB, however, consider that all of this is in one sense mere coding (albeit it happens to be far more complex than that), and that said people are taking advantage of 'bugs' in the code. How many bugs are there? Is it possible for someone (probably a changed, or mad scientist) to 'tune' or 'tinker' with the field, probably no more than tweaks to appearance or color? I know the Primary Engineer Of This Work has stated that there are no 'powers', but then again, this is all just code, and hackers can sometimes be just mortal.

Just a thought or two. I should probably stop this monologue before a super spy shows up.
~midon~

:You're pretty close overall, though the simulation doesn't necessarily have to be of the ROB's own creation. Human Earth could be something It came up with all by Itself. Another book that's similar to what I've come up with here is ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_(novel) Darwinia]''. Someone suggested that the best thing for the ROB to do is to restore from backup. The thing is, these are still people. ROB doesn't have a moral problem with allowing them to die within the sim, but will act to protect both itself and its people from an outside threat. Hence the RDF and other measures.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 17:46, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Thinking far future... ==

First, to make it VERY clear, I am NOT thinking of any stories or anything set in the 2020 period yet. I've just been thinking of how the world may be like by then, as the last half are about to change.

I suspect there would be a mix of celebration (the last humans are joining us!) and mourning (humans will no longer be as they were). Regionally, there will probably be searches for the "last human baby", the ones born days/hours before the last Aug 17 change; they'd probably be local celebrities, similar to "New Years Babies"

And in 2021, the nervousness would start. Is the change source gone? Is it mutating? Are we going to change further? Or into something else now? For the Changed Generation, that little shiver of fear every August 17th will probably persist until they are all gone.

All that assumes civilization hasn't fallen apart by then of course. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:42, 25 February 2008 (EST)

== Summer Olympics ==

This was nagging at the back of my mind a bit, but I finally nailed it down to actually check dates:

:"The 2008 Summer Olympics, officially known as the Games of the XXIX Olympiad, will be celebrated from August 8, 2008 to August 24, 2008".

For the record, the 2004 Olympics also just straddled the Change day, having started on Aug 13th. No other Summer Olympics have straddled Change day, but the 1996 games ended just before it, and the Paralympic Games that year did straddle the Change day.

The 2012 games in London curiously have a break between the end of the Olympics on Aug 12, 2012, and the start of the Paralympics on Aug 29.

Just something to think about for writers out there. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:The Change takes place right in the middle of the Olympics. All it takes is for one or two athletes to change to gum up the works. These people are already in top physical shape, too. But what happens when a swimmer becomes a dolphin, an otter, or perhaps something that doesn't swim well? I don't think the RDF can handle becoming as large as a rhino. They'll still displace an awful lot of water when they splash in.

:I'll have to mention this in Open Secrets.

:--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:53, 27 February 2008 (EST)

::At least the illness will be a bit of a cover. Depending on how many Changed athletes there are, (both active and new Changed), the illness could be used to skip out on some events out of necessity.

::Still the pressure to perform, even if their form is inappropriate for the sport (A Bull trying to do a polevault or the triathlon in general? A bear for gymnastics? A Mouse in weightlifting? ) will be intense

::There would probably be a lot of discussion when a star athlete suddenly isn't performing as well as they did before.

::Of course, a few years after that, the Beijing Olympics here will probably end up with a * like the LA and Moscow Olympics, as people find out about the Change and the number of ringers (otters in swimming events, felines and primates in gymnastics, gazelles and cheetahs in track events, bears and bulls in weight lifting, etc...) semi-intentionally sent by the various countries. We could very well see TTC-level problems happening in Olympic Village.

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== What happens ''after'' 2020? ==

Point one: Computer programs are never ''intrinsically'' equipped with an off-switch. Rather, a shutdown condition must be explicitly coded into a program -- and any program which ''lacks'' an explicit shutdown condition, will continue to chug merrily along until something hardware-ish gets in the way.

Point two: The Change is the result of a 'furry virus", ''i.e.,'' a '''computer program'''.

2020 is when the entire planetary population will be furry... but who's to say the 'furry virus' won't ''continue'' to do its thing, Changing people year in and year out, with each year's quantity of Changes being double that of the year before? We know that being Changed is ''not'' an absolute protection against the 'furry virus' -- the setting rules themselves ''explicitly allow'' previously-Changed people to get hit with another dose of Change, after all -- so ''either'' (a) the 'furry virus' ''does'' have an explicitly-coded off-switch, or else (b) starting in 2020, an ever-increasing number of people are going to end up Changing ''two or more times in any given year.''

If the 'furry virus' ''has'' a built-in off-switch, that begs the question of what, exactly, its shutdown condition ''is.'' Does it stop spreading/infecting when there's no unchanged Human left, is it waiting for some specific event or combination of events before it quits, or what? Perhaps the guy who wrote the 'furry virus' did so with the specific intent of encouraging ROB to make [insert specific changes here] in ROB's virtual world, such that the results of those changes are the virus's 'off-switch'?

If, on the other hand, the 'furry virus' has ''no'' built-in brakes, things can get weird, fast. People have already floated the notion of Changes happening "out of season"; what if these 'unscheduled' Changes are merely a harbinger of things to come, in which people can be re-zapped at any time of year, an arbitrarily large number of times per year? It may be instructive, or at least amusing, to extrapolate the data given in "The Numbers", and divide each year's expected number of Changes by the expected population for that year: In 2020, there's 1.12 Changes per person (perhaps every human being Changes, regardless of their current state, and there's a 12% chance of one guy Changing ''twice?).'' Since we're basically talking about a doubling function, it only takes until 2024 for every ex-human to be an involuntary member of the Change Of The Month Club (because there's a touch over 17 Changes per person that year), and the Change Of The '''Day''' Club starts up in 2029 (during which year there's a bit less than 514 Changes per person per year). In 2034, the extrapolated number of Changes per person for that year is significantly over 15,000 (which works out to about 7/4 of a Change ''per hour,'' every hour, for every human being); by 2040, we hit 1.75 Changes per ''minute;'' 2046 is when every human being starts to hit 1 Change per ''second.''

To repeat what I said above: Things get weird, fast.

Obviously, the above figures are ridiculous, since they're derived from mindless extrapolation of an exponential curve. Perhaps the most sensible way to go is to presume that ROB manages to ''do'' something about the metatstasizing 'furry virus' no later than 2025 or so. In any case, one hopes said figures at least provide a bit of food for thought... [[User:Cubist|Cubist]] 05:03, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

== Change and the Media ==

It's probably a sign that I watch WAY too much TV, but it's a theme that's been in the back of my mind (man that back area's getting mighty crowded with ideas). As the Change progresses, even with the Veil in place, more and more effects of the Change will start showing up in other ways, and it will become more and more 'public' even if the Unchanged won't really know what is going on. I suspect TV shows especially will begin to show a lot of these.

This is just some of my rambling thoughts on what the TV Cable signals might be sending to the screens of the Changed near-Future.

Reality TV in all its forms will probably be the first to really start showing the effects of the Changed, since they tend to have the fastest turnaround time and the most contact with non-actors. Court shows (like I wrote in my short story case) will have more and more cases of Changed vs Norms and even weird Changed vs Changed cases. "He won't share the nail clippers!" "She gifted me the money for the vacation to Alaska in January")

Gameshows also will start having more Changed contestants, especially popular ones like Price is Right.

And then you have the Survivor types. Show's like "Top Model" and "Bachelor(ette)" and "Blind Date" (especially given the Change's habit of giving the Changed Eye-turning bodies) will probably have the most Changed on a show early on (whether intentionally or unintentionally).

Home Makeover shows may start seeing even weirder designs as designers/homeowners remake rooms to give room for antlers or bigger buttons for hoof fingers and such. (We thought Frank's designs on Trading Spaces were weird BEFORE he Changed... :P )

Amazing Race may have a Changed Team soon; a few Changed in the Big Brother House (probably intentionally put in there by a Changed Studio staffer), and the next Survivor or two would probably have some contestants.

Once the Field comes down, I fully expect CBS to roll out a "Furries vs Normals" Survivor while they can.

Now onto more tasteful TV. (arguably :P )

Cartoons? (what few new ones that are made) will likely start having more and more of a furry bend to them. Hallowe'en specials may turn 'human' toons into furry ones as experiments to transition shows.

Soaps? Expect Change stories fairly soon I dare say. I don't watch them myself, but from what I've heard of some storylines they've done in the past, the Change isn't all that strange. These writers will probably be chaffing at the restrictions of the Field the most.

Sitcoms will probably start getting Changed in-jokes fairly quickly as more Changed writers and actors come on staff. Some of the jokes may verge on Veil-breaking too, but viewers would discount as visual FX.

Procedurals/Drama's, business as normal but more Change-related stories. Maulings and gorings investigated on CSI's (along with strange fingerprints/bootprints, hair samples, etc...), Without a Trace investigating people who disappear after Change Day, maybe even a TG mystery. Numb3rs maybe touching on the Change rate (imagine Chris brought in as an advisor for an ep ? :) ). House or ER dealing with a Changed patient and/or Changed doctors/nurses.

And finally (for now) Sci Fi/Fantasy shows will probably find themselves in a very difficult position. On the one hand, they'd be ideal to start exploring the Change itself. On the other hand, as long as the Field is in effect, they can't really explore them since they'd have to turn normals into Furry's (or dress furry's in fursuits). Plus, a show's setting may not exactly be ideal for adjusting to the Change. "SG-1/Atlantis" may be able to adjust (turn it into an Ori curse or something), but Terminator would have a harder time. Heroes could probably pull it off, but BSG? Unlikely. (Imagine them finding 'Earth' but it's a Furry Earth... Hmmm...)

Anyways, that's just some of my rambling thoughts on the TV of the near future, for what its worth.

:There's a simple way to make furries show up in Television. Simply use the polarized lenses as featured in Open Secrets on the video camera units. The image of the furries would pass through the polarized lenses onto the film. The film would record the true image in the same way that people would see the true image. Boom, RDF circumvented. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:26, 28 January 2009 (EST)

:: True those would work. But everyone involved for those scenes would have to Know or questions would be raised. Depending on the scene and production. (Thouhg some could be handwaved, as long as the producer/editors Know. "Bob's gonna play the part of a man-rat for this scene. We'll CG-replace him in Editing afterward"

::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 12:33, 28 January 2009 (EST)

::: Well, at the very least, the cameraman is going to be in the know fast! Actually, I could see something like this being done once things go public. We could have a documentary on the early Changed (while you can still get human actors!), and you'd have some cameras with the filter on it and some without so you could show what the Changed sees and what the unsuspecting humans around him see. --[[User:98.236.12.68|98.236.12.68]] 05:14, 29 January 2009 (EST)

:::: That is happening to some extent, though not with the filters yet. Shiloh (and her new boyfriend newly Changed this year) are doing what they can to document the Change and how it affects lives as it happens (on the side from their main jobs), and I'm sure she's far from alone on this.

:::: Once more Documentary makers get ahold of this and it goes public, I'm sure there will be more too.

::::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:33, 29 January 2009 (EST)

== Furries in Space? ==

OK Time for even more thoughts from me. :) Endeavor's launch last night triggered this thought.

I'm not going to elaborate, but is anyone watching the ISS crew for change symptoms? Or the shuttle crew if they're up? A Change up there could be Veil breaking just because of the amount of attention and lack of privacy those people have. (not to mention the extreme circumstances they'd be under).

The Change itself could very well spell the end of Manned space flight for the next few decades in the end.

Not sure if it would spell the end of manned space flight but yeah even just an examination of the air filter would find stuff that couldn't have gotten up there any other way.--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 19:16, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

:I'm sure it'd be the end of manned space flight for quite some time simply for economic reasons if nothing else. This is going to be rather disruptive and there'll probably be a bit of a budget pinch. [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

==The Reality Distortion Field is Real ==

Sadly, not the one you have in mind: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/18/2117208 :) [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

== Bats? ==

Just a question about the species: I've noticed you put aside birds for now, but what about bats?--[[User:142.68.130.19|142.68.130.19]] 23:52, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:Bats will put a huge strain on the Veil. If/when they do show up, it might be coming down by then anyway. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:36, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Farming in Paradise ==

Just shooting an idea in here for later. [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080410153658.htm This is the technology] widely deployed it the Paradise setting. But put the clock back ten years (1997 discovery, widespread global deployment by 2008). Biochar/agrichar. With any luck, the Green Revolution will be replaced with the Black Gold Revolution quickly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== BioFuels ==

Jon, you're beginning to scare me a bit. :P

This was just on Slashdot this morning: [http://www.utexas.edu/news/2008/04/23/biofuel_microbe/ New Source for Biofuels Discovered by Researchers At The University of Texas at Austin]

Basically, some bacteria that can make cellulose which can be turned to fuel, and the cellulose can be harvested without harming the bacteria.
--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 06:10, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

:I read about this yesterday. They hope to increase production efficiency 17-fold because otherwise, you'd have to cover the ''entire'' Midwest with this. Unfortunately it won't happen fast enough to prevent the shortages I know are coming.

:I read about this stuff every day. I mean, ''every'' day. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:19, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Another bit of news: [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece "Scientists find bugs that eat waste and excrete petrol."] --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 11:12, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== The Chicago Ghost Killer ==

After having seen countless videos of Persona 3 on youtube, and having played the .hack//GU games, and having read about this setting repeatedly, this idea was born out of my skull. It doesn't really fit with the setting per-say, (people dealing with expected changes in their lives and the changing of culture as truth becomes harder and harder to keep hidden), but it's still interesting.

Imagine if once the number of furries hits the thousand mark or close to it (1997), a strange series of murders begin in Chiago and wander outwards. To normal police and investigators these people have -nothing- in common, just random innocent people. But the furries know that every single person killed was a furry! Now this is where things start to get weird.

When seen by furries, the killer is a lanky laid back twenty something raven haired young man whose expression almost always remains passive wearing semi-formal dark clothes with a revolver in one hand and spare bullets in the opposite pocket.

When the police just about anyone else whose effected by the perception filter see him, they see 'Average Joe' or 'Face You Can't Help But Forget' and never ever notice the weapon he's holding unless he hits them with it or shoots them or something just as drastic. It is also is picked up by metal detectors the same as any metal gun. In other words, his existence, is like the existence of furriness to normal humans, his existence effects them, but they can't notice him directly.

This guy always knows a furry when he sees one regardless of media or medium, or reads one, this include file records of people TGed by the virus. When he spots one or finds out about one, he calmly location that person, in order of him learning about them, and shoot that person in the head without fanfare then simply move on to the next one.

Physically his strength and speed are all perfectly average human, meaning a bear or tiger furry could easy tear him apart.

Strange thing is that if profiled, no records of him will turn up, anywhere!

Also, he might even begin to appear DIFFERENTLY to people who are under the effect of the perception filter. He can't appear as a furry, and can NEVER EVER appear as a precise person (he can't appear as someone's mother or brother). But he can ultimately change how people look at him, they see a five year old girl with a teddy bear opposed to a man with a revolver even if he STILL can't fit in a toy car for the life of him and that 'bear' might go off if someone else 'hugs' it, (which he'd avoid someone doing at all posts). He could also appear as a fire fighter or police officer if he gets clever enough. Though furries will -always- see through this disguise. Along with any human whose able to see furries without effort.

The Chicago Ghost Killer never attacks non-changed humans, and will never take a shot if there's a reasonable chance of shooting a non-changed person.

He travels by mundane methods, he always travels by the most practical and speedy method and always has the correct change or ticket (this is not an illusion). His taxi, train, or airplane never crash.

If detained for questioning, he might just walk straight out of the police station unless some of the cops are furries. If stripped of his weapon and ammo next time he shows up he'll have a new set perfectly identical to the last one down to the imperfections in the casing.

Now this is where things get ambiguous. I don't know if he's killed he just appears in Chicago the day after the change again each year, or weather two different people with abilities similar to his appear in his stead these armed with a crossbow and another one shot distance weapon.

Since deleting the entire universe is not an option, The Chicago Ghost Killer might be an emergency fail safe to try and cut off the infected flesh from the system.

His name comes from where he started killing (strangely the same place as the changes began) and the fact that to normal humans he IS like a ghost, there yet not there but decidedly felt.

I know this doesn't really fit with the setting at all, but I just had to share it with the only people who'd appreciate it.

Thank you.

- Alex Warlorn. 2008 06 15

:And his name is Agent Johnathan Walker Smith, is it? Seems like a Matrix Agent to me... (unsigned comment)
::Actually I don't think he'd -have- a name, or even know the true nature of the world, he'd just know what he -had- to do and how to do it and how he can do it.-- Alex Warlorn

== Octuplets born in California ==

Things that make you go Hmmmm....

8 babies at once
Planning to breast feed them all.
Names not being released (yet).

Could we have a changed couple hiding out there from the glare of the media spotlight? :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:25, 27 January 2009 (EST)

=='''Future RDF Failure'''==

I'm starting to work out ideas about how the RDF would fail. My current thinking is that it will work on a small scale first. Visually, there would be a "refraction", like seeing your own eyes through your glasses. Or your leg halfway in a pool. This is the "Refraction Effect". These are places where the RDF has been removed, like a section of glass, revealing the Real World underneath. It's gone. The visual effect makes it clear a border's been crossed. I'm not sure ''when'' this is going to happen. Probably sometime near the US Gov wants to go public. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 07:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

===Weirdness Censor?===

I've been thinking about an "RDF Lite" that could basically act as a Weirdness Censor instead of the full blown see-furries-as-humans version that exists right now. There'd still be social upheaval, but not the civilization-ending type that would most likely happen. I'm very likely going to do this in After Hours, but I want to do it right. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

==The "Posthuman" World ==

In order to differentiate this setting from WoC more, I'm going to keep a certain number of regular humans in the furry world that results when the virus runs its course. Same rules as other furry types as far as parent-child species. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 19:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

:No offense, but that feels like a cop-out to me. As someone else pointed out, a computer virus is NOT going to simply 'burn itself out' a computer virus continues like any program infinitely unless it's directly ordered to. Once it runs out of humans to transform, it'll start to transform furries into other species, and become even more chaotic as time progresses. I just feels cheap the virus suddenly just stops, and it doesn't make sense form a programming point of view either since it would open MANY MORE cans of worms anyway. -- Alex Warlorn June 15 2009

::Okay. How to address this? A lot of my ideas for this setting comes from Charles Stross's work, which can get pretty mind-bending at times. ''Accelerando, Glasshouse, Singularity Sky'', and ''Iron Sunrise'' all come to mind. One of my basic assumptions is that the Furry Virus is itself sentient/sapient, but it's not ''quite'' as smart as the transhuman intelligence running the Simulation Space that is our universe (down to the Planck Length).

::The RDF was a last-ditch effort to maintain the experiment as it was. We're all a bunch of microbes, as far as ROB is concerned. But It's not the type of Being to just chuck the whole experiment into the incinerator and start over. At this point ROB has scrapped the original experiment in favor of trying to prevent our little petri dish universe from going completely bad. So, 1) contain the Furry Virus, and 2) prevent it from doing any more damage beyond 2020 by creating a specific End State. The FV remains, but it becomes an uncommon chronic disease.

::Frankly, now that furries and the TGed have been Outed ROB may even stop the history editing. More obvious actions include: Refilling dead oilfields, creating social conditions so humans aren't really surprised at the Change. There are probably all kinds of countermeasures ROB has done that I haven't thought of in order to keep people from going ''crazy crazy'' and incinerating their own petri dish. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::I was thinking of a similar idea, but in a programming context as opposed to a biological one, and ''very'' limited. Think of every person as an element of an array, i.e. Human[]. An algorithm designed to change the values of every element, like the furry virus is doing, would most likely go from 0 to some constant POPULATION_HUMAN. In that case, ROB might be able to circumvent the effects for the virus for a select few by assigning people to special values: NULL, NaN, -1, MAX_INT, INFINITY, or other predefined numbers, even those that aren't considered "special" to humans. The purpose of this would be to preserve ''some'' unaltered "data" for purposes not important to us, and it can't be done for all humans because of the effort or memory required to "manually" fix so many values.

:::Conversely, perhaps ROB will let the virus run its course so It can then safely run a variation of the virus to turn everyone back into humans. That would be another interesting take: when the world's furry in 2020, how will everyone feel when they find out they'll all be human again by about 2055, depending on population, and perhaps if the same thing happens in cycles? ...

:::...Or if it turns out that life has been this way for a long, ''long'' time. Thinking back to what ROB has been able to do, this is easily within Its power. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 05:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::ROB figures it's best to let the virus run its course then neutralize it like I've described. Perhaps ROB's reworking the Experiment to account for the new changes.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Colons! Colons as far as the eye can see! Ahaha.

:::::One little problem I had with ''Accelerando'' (though I did indeed love it in all other respects) was how completely unfathomable the Higher Beings were. You never could figure out what their reasons were for anything…and in fact, in all their interactions with the remnants of pre-Singularity humanity, they mostly seemed to delight in "poking the anthill". Sending boatloads of recreations of historical and fictitious characters out to that space station just to mess with humanity's minds. And not only could you not ask them why, you wouldn't be able to understand their answer if you did. Hence, one of the things that you hope you learn in the end—the question of "why?"—is forever unanswered.

:::::It would be kind of nice to have some of the characters eventually be able to confront ROB and the virus and ask them what the deal was, but I'm not holding my breath any. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 06:22, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::::I'm very, ''very'' careful not to jump the shark. But at the very least ROB does have some empathy for us microbes. While ROB does do some "resimulation" for TGed folk, it absolutely ''will not'' alter memories because that would cause personality death.

::::::Paradise is more similar too ''[http://www.amazon.com/Darwinia-Novel-Different-Twentieth-Century/dp/0812566629 Darwinia]'' than ''Accelerando''. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Another possibility I just thought about: perhaps this isn't the act of a virus at all. Instead this is the fix to an ancient "Human Virus" that infected the universe, and it's just restoring the original experiment (or whatever). Or if you ''really'' want to throw people off: humanity ''is'' the virus itself, and this is how ROB is solving the problem. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 07:25, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

::Well, to be fair, this is a post-Singularity virus. Nobody ever said it was strictly one-function only. For all we know, it may have a behavioral change programmed into it. "Take Z action until condition A is met, then switch to taking Y action until condition B is met, etc." Or heck, the virus itself may be a sentient/sapient digital life form with free will, fully able to "change its mind" when it wants to. Certainly there is some intelligent agency at work behind the Reality Distortion Field that has already shown the ability to change its own behavior or react to changes in infected people's situations (changing TG furs' "ghosts"—and all extant records—from male to female when they get pregnant, for instance). No reason the virus can't be the same way. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 23:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

:How is that going to work? I'm not sure how humanity can propagate by the "same rules" as other furry types given that it's been established humans and furres are not able to interbreed. Perhaps there might be an inverse of the Sleeping Sickness (a Waking Sickness? :) which causes furries to randomly mutate back into human in addition to the other types of furry form? —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 22:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

::Two thoughts: 1) In 2021 there's a group of humans worldwide who don't Change. They're simply the one species among many. After this point they can breed with furres because the RDF is down anyway. Perhaps they can already do this in Bubbled areas in 2010. 2) Human forms can be a recessional trait that shows up on occasion, between two furres.

::Furry babies already look ''very'' human due to a type of neoteny. Even the herbivores like horses and deer have very stubby muzzles. It looks more like a mask when they're born. Within two years those muzzle stubs grow the "baby animal" proportions, then as normal. They're generally more thinly furred for those first two years also. I keep thinking of puppies. No matter what the breed, they all look ''extremely'' similar when newborn. Same will be true in this setting. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, TG and TF will continue. I'm thinking of something akin to Matthias' character, with random changes. It'll be considered a chronic disease. And the severe forms ''can'' kill you. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Possibly the first occurance of ROB ==

As I mentioned when I introduced him, ROB (Random Omnipotent Being) comes from some other message boards I regularly view/visit. Well someone seems to have found what may have been the first occurrence of ROB. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=53955] Pretty humble beginnings for him if you ask me. :) (His brother, COROB (Crossover Obsessed Random Omnipotent Being) similarly had humble beginnings a month or so later. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=55397] )

== The RDF and extra extremities. ==

Assume here that the RDF is functioning normally and hasn't broken down. Normal humans can't feel the extra extremities of the Changed, like tails and horns - they just feel empty air. But what would another Changed see if they were to look at a normal human attempting to touch a Changed's tail? Would they see the human seemingly passing their hand through the tail of the Changed? [[User:CNash|CNash]] 23:52, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

:I think you've got it wrong. Extra extremities can still be physically felt. The RDF is like a holographic cloak around the changed - it doesn't actually have an effect on their form. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 00:57, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:Shadow is basically correct. Their hand wouldn't pass through empty air. They would meet some weird resistance, but they'd forget about it in a short time. Other Changed would see them touch the tail they can't see. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:: I was going by a line in "Made Alone"; CM's diary entry: ''I say, `Oh yeah, here, grab my tail'. He humors me, but he cannot feel it. I feel him put his hand on it, but he just doesn't feel it.'' - I haven't yet read through all the stories and I'm going chronologically. [[User:CNash|CNash]] 11:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:::If there's one thing I've learned about running a shared setting is to ''not'' demand ironclad continuity. I always allow authors leeway for dramatic purposes, and I don't mind if events don't quite match up. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:19, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

::::Given that is the earliest described Change event, I just assumed that the Veil was stronger back then, and since lessened to the extent of allowing feeling of extremities. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 07:32, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

== Glitch ==

Assertion one: Universe of Paradise setting is mathmatically generated by advanced post-singularity computer. Assertion two: Pre-singularity computers have demonstrated randomized renumbering of internal programing due to outside factors. These renumberings are identified as "glitches," having no basis in programming like bugs and viruses. Assumption: Post singularity computer operates with similar if heavily advanced hardware as pre-singularity computer. Conclusion: Randomized renumberings of programming will occur independently of programming. That is to say, it is not inconceivable that somewhere, a coffee cup on the table is suddenly on the counter. Or that an ant becomes a different species of ant. Or that a gray-eyed man one day has blue eyes. Perhaps these small changes are common and constant. -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 05:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

== Species Expansion ==

We have already seen at least one Elephant man. Is the Furry Virus, as it expands, drawing from a larger gene base? And if so, when would the first nonmammalians arise? Personally, I'm expecting crocs in the near future. Perhaps even 2010... -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 22:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

:The setting is mammals only. Reptiles and birds have very different reproductive biologies. Birds wouldn't be able to fly and cold-blooded creatures can't support a human-like brain and its energy requirements. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== An observation ==

From what I've read, the 'computer simulation' theory is just that- a theory. There's no point blank evidence that this is what's happening within the storyline, and, while I obviously shouldn't just stroll in and rewrite things, but I'd ask the main participators in this storyline to keep this in mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- (note added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC))

:Jon is the creator of the setting and he has final say in these things... He has not ruled on this yet, but I think he will if it becomes a problem. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== If a person doesn't TF again next year... ==

Maybe I missed something. Is it right that if a person doesn't TF again the year after they first change, they stop changing for good? Thinking of the story's setting (computer simulation), if the change is caused by a virus, surely it could keep affcting people? If that doesn't make sense I'll expand, but surely someone knows what I'm talking about. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- signature added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] )

:First it's "bear", not "bare" - homophones are a big stumbling point for a large portion of people, so I try to help people where I can with them :)

: Second... Remember that the whole "post-singularity simulation infected by a virus" schtick is just one possible cause. Jon has said that it could be, but has not pinned it on that. If it really is a virus, then there is a possibility that you could change again 20 years down the line. However... It might be that the multi-change people are somehow an exception - like the virus leaves behind a flag saying "infected" (you'll find this with existing computer viruses, actually) and with multi-changers this flag is missing. Or it could be that the multi-changers are actually being created because of ROB trying to undo the damage done by the virus. And a third possibility is that there is no "virus" and the change is happening according to a plan setup by the people that programmed the simulation - and the multi-changers were randomly selected to be multi-changers.

:In other words... Even if you assume that the postulated "post-singularity simulation" is reality the change could be more than a virus and the limits on multiple changes could be somehow tied directly to the purposes that the simulation was created for... Anyway... I've gone on too long with this. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 19:03, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

::Ugh. I actually thought whilst typing, "that's not right, it should be bare..." blast. So much for trying to write a story if I can't do that kind of simple thing.

::Thanks for your help. I'm trying to make sure I understand the setting as best I can so I can make my story (hopefully a series, but maybe I'm being a bit ambitious) as best as possible. I'm trying to break the mould... Most characters in the Paradise setting seem to be similar. If my first attempt works, I might try one with a different character... Actually, I'd probably do it even if it didn't work :) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Just to be clear, it is a simulation running on a post-Singularity cloud of computronium. And it is a virus doing the dirty work. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:34, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:::: *GACK* - Last time I read the setting page that was still a "speculation" bit :( -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

== Human/Furry detail ==

More prattling, sorry. Bear with me (Heh. Got it right this time.).

The information on smaller details in the differences between humans and furs is irritatingly lax, and I hit a block while writing my own story stressing over an incredibly minor detail. My problem aside, I think that the lack of detail makes it awkward to write... Would two characters that changed into the same species be exactly the same anatomically? I'm not sure. A couple of stories have thrown me in that respect, mainly "A Kind of Paradise", and "Twisting the Veil". I feel like I'm having a bit of a whine actually, and should just get on with it, but right now, I feel like speaking my mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:The anatomical differences between furry species can vary, but not so much that they become incompatible with each other. This is why I didn't want to add birds/reptiles/fish/insects. They're just too different. If they're the same species, they're exactly the same. There is a variance in hair (Some have it, some don't) otherwise everyone is firmly anthro rather than, say, animal ears and tail and nothing else. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:37, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I understand why there are only mammals in the setting, personally I think it's a good choice. I wasn't really thinking about the degrees of how human/animalistic people are, but rather what traits they take on when they change. For example, I know that people have commented on changes in sounds and smells, but not sight, is sight affected? -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::About the sight, in one [[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]]´s story, a morph rat can see the shape and size of objects & dodge them while running, (only with the light of the stars in a moonless night); other humans in the same place need to use flashlights. The same caracter can see colors, read or driving a car like any other human in normal light conditions.
:::Other changed caracter had problems related to perception of deep & 3D; the benefit of a more wide angle of vision it´s not something really useful in the for-human-designed world. --[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:29, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

::And, as for traits, I know that most species of rodents are incapable of vomiting, fox example. But would the humans be affected by this? Of course, I'm not asking for all the details, that would be ridiculous considering the number of possibilities. I just don't want to write something that doesn't follow the rules of the setting. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Actually... Things like that are, IMHO, why the 'Sleeping Sickness' bracelets have been issued. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Um, yes, those. Maybe I haven't been reading the right stories, but to the best of my knowledge, the bracelets are to let doctors know (provided they already know about the whole thing) what you changed into. Have I missed something? (I feel like I'm asking too many questions. Sorry.) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::::There is a mention in one of a changed that was a species to which aspirin is toxic being killed by a doctor prescribing aspirin... I just don't remember which story that was. The stories about Doctor Clay have most of the good information about how changed can suffer from problems/illnesses incumbent to their species. (IIRC there is a judge that starts suffering from a problem only seen in horses - and he's a horse...) -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::::The idea behind the "Sleeping Sickness" bracelets was pretty much a (bad) attempt by a small group at the CDC to get help to Changed. Hospitals were supposed to report such cases that presented in order for doctors in the know to be summoned. It was created essentally with the idea that it wasn't really a workable solution, but the best that could be come up with. The factoid that came up about toxic medications was based on a factoid I heard many years ago, that penicillian has a singular toxicity for rodents. As such, as drug testing is set up today, its unlikely it would ever be approved. The idea is that there is enough transformation that people might pick up certiain toxic reactions to things that they didn't realize. I'm not sure anyone has really gone into depth with this, but I'd think you could infer that some canines would have violent reactions to chocolate, for example. Like all things, there would be some variability, just like some dogs can seem to eat chocolate fine while others it might kill. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 23:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

== Extreame ROB ==

I had an odd thought last night about the implications of what ROB does with respect to rewriting documentation of peoples pasts. ROB has been known to change paperwork, pictures and even apparent histories of people. (Didn't someone in After Hours discover they were supposed to have dated people earlier as the opposite gender?) That got me to thinking about how far this might all go. Assuming that ROB doesn't actually start to mess with memories, will it start to alter older records? Pictures from earlier than the first Change, even for subjects that died before it all started? Paintings? And would they be consistent? Would every painting done of George Washington find the same form? And to take it a few steps further, what about statues? This could get messy... which isn't always a bad thing from a story perspective. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 15:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:I can see that happening more as a result of the furry virus, since that kind of extreme "history editing" feels more malevolent to me than something ROB would do. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 20:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Interesting though that would be, it's an important plot mechanic for there to still be remnants of the human world - Once the entire human race has transformed, they need to still be aware that this has happened - Rewriting history would remove this and it would be as if nothing happened... if you see what I mean? -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

::It would make sense for things to get messy if it were the virus causing it. Sloppy, half rewritten pasts, people not sure of what really happened and what didn't, more like a temporal infection than a careful rewriting. That kind of scare could lead the reader to be a bit more sympathetic about ROB trying to stop the virus's progression. It would also make a great opportunity to go all Serial Experiments Lain on a story and leave people wondering wtf -- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:10, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Furry Sizes ==

What size are furries? It's pretty clear that bears are big and mice are small, and it mostly makes sense to have the same thing (but not as extreme) for anthroid furries, but there are some other size differences I can't so easily imagine. Some guidelines might be helpful. Ferrets in particular, ferret males are often twice as big as ferret females, as is the case of many mustelids, but at the same time both of them are smaller than cats. If I make a female ferret larger than a rat, and a male ferret smaller than a cat, that's starting to leave not so much room to spare. If I had to finagle a scale I'd say

* mice - 1.2 meters (or less!)
* rats - 1.3 meters
* female ferrets, squirrels, minks, etc - 1.4 meters
* male ferrets, ringtails, mongooses - 1.6 meters
* female cats - 1.7 meters
* male cats, skunks, raccoons - 1.8 meters uh...
* big cats and wolves - 1.9-2.0
* big stuff like bears - all the way to 2.2.

But then again it might also be fun to have a 2 metres tall cavy. GEORGE LOVES YOU COME GIVE GEORGE A BIG HUG.

Maybe illustrating size differences between sexes is a bit too piccaunish. >.<
-- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:04, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

:I should personally think that irrelevant. While there's clearly going to be some destinction between heights and races, I think guidelines are unnesecary. People come in all shapes and sizes, this individuallity should be maintained. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

One little detail though, (and it doesn't really apply to me but may for others), removing hippo's, rhino's and elephants from the pool seems to be a bit speciest, considering moose are allowed. In looking at the Wiki, it seems that hippos (1.5meters) and rhinos (2.0 meters) are actually generally smaller or the same size as the largest moose (2.1 metres) species. Elephants seem to average about a meter or two larger than the moose.

Perhaps a better restriction would be to allow any land mammal (and any sea mammal that is between the sizes of the minimum land mammal size and the maximum land mammal size), but set minimum and maximum furre sizes; something like a min of 1.2 metres or 4ft to a max of 2.0 metres or 7ft.

Anyways, I'll try and keep an eye on things and see if I can culture this idea I've got further. - 19:50, 10 January 2008 [[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]

== Human Survival ==

Since the US government, and governments of the world, would have obviously known about the furry changes for many years as government officials became Changed, they logically would have set up Projects (like the Manhattan Project) to study the reasons and try and find a solution. It is obvious to them that the end of humanity will come and this should have all contries of the world enganged in studying the scientific causes of the RDF and ways to affect it. Many of the scientists themselves who get changed would surely want to study the effect. Any physics professor changed would jump at the chance to study it and get the next Nobel prize for figuring it out. It does defy natural laws, therefore the new laws it does follow can be studied. If there is some master computer responsible for the universe, such as in Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, then this it might be possible for a "super computer" build by the UN or whoever to communicate with the ROB virus program or even the Master computer itself, and change it, such as the computer "Obie" in the Well World books. Personally, I favor a different approach. In 1987 a super computer someplace near Chicago DID develop self awareness, predicted that mankind was going to overpopulate and destroy the planet, and it decided to "FIX" things by connecting with the main universal computer at the center of the universe on a night when the least number of galaxies are in the way, which happens to be Aug 17. The governments at some point would find out that the birth rate is on a serious decline even though it is possible for furries to have babies, it is not as common as humans due to all the different genetics and species involved. Mating a horse furry with a rabbit furry is much less likly to produce offspring, for example, that mating a horse furry with another horse furry, so regardless of who was married to who when they are human, statistically the couple won't be able to have children after both change, unless they are the same. Some story about finding the ROB computer near Chicago before 2020 should be a possibility and reasoning with it might be a good solution.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:37, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:The thing is, there is no ROB computer in our world, if I'm understanding what you're saying here. It isn't like Obie or the Well World where it's something inside the Universe itself that's causing the Change. This setting--basically our world--exists as a Planck-level simulation space inside a post-Singularity posthuman computer. There are two viruses (also posthuman, slightly more advanced) responsible for the Change: A relatively controllable TG virus, and the much newer "furry virus" that ROB can't contain with "history editing".
Keep in mind that governments didn't really know this was even happening until the early 2000s.
Otherwise, the RDF/Change as a source of study for physicists is a good angle.
-- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:57, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::I just hate to plug but if you want an example of how goverments might screw up the change read my story [[User:Fibio|Cascade Failure]]
-- [[User:Fibio|Fibio]] 20:42, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::Of course, in a way it's kind of pointless even to know about it, since I can't really foresee any way that it could ever become a plot point within the story itself. I can't really see humanity figuring out how to "hack" its way out.
It doesn't really make that much of a difference, from an in-universe standpoint, to assume that it's all being done by "magic". (Any sufficiently advanced technology…) —- [[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 21:23, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Pretty much [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityWarper] all around. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thanks folks for all the replies to my post! People to talk to! OK, first JonBuck, I am not really sure I understand all the Plank-level simulation space inside a post-singularity posthuman supercomputer stuff (I did try to look up the story Accelerando but I just found a book cover) but I interpret this to mean: Plank-Level = really really small; simulation space = not real or temporary space in computer memory; post-singularity = after a black hole evaporates in about a few trillion years; post human = mankind extinct; supercomputer = something like the Cosmic AC in [http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html] ?

However, my ignorance aside, regardless of what the supercomputer is, or what we are, it would in effect be God. Now ROB could represent the devil, or if God has gone crazy, the savior. ROB either was created by the supercomputer "GOD" on purpose or by accident, it was created by a simulation universe, either our own, a past one, or another running concurrently, to infect God, or it was created by God's creators as some part of the God computer for some purpose and function, and if that is the case then either it is carrying out its intended program or it has malfunctioned. I think that is a complete list of all possible options, so if I have missed one then please let me know.

You stated, "It comes from outside the post-Singularity brain, and is slightly more advanced than "ours". What's happening is this bit of malicious code (sentient, no less, but on a level far beyond our ability to comprehend it) is messing up the simulated world we reside in. Why? I dunno. One of those inscrutable things." This sentient "virus" needs to have come from one of the posibilities above, and I suppose it is up to you to decide which, but since "you dunno", then I will try to help.

I guess the first question is "Why did God create the universe?" which translated means "Why is the supercomputer running the simulation?" Is the goal good or evil? Perhaps the supercomputer was programed to do so for an evil purpose by its creators, and ROB is sort of like its concience it has developed and wants to mess up the experiment before it can produce evil results. I would favor ROB being good, instead of evil, perhaps trying to produce a different result that will end up doing good than if the simulation ran to completion on its present course. However, that being said, if ROB is a computer virus, and based on logic and programable, and is expending energy to maintain the RDF, scientists studying that might find a way to..either communicate with it, grab its attention, or annoy it. I believe that enabeling some communication with it, even though we won't understand it completly, would produce some interesting stories.

Fibeo, I had previously read your story and just re-read it. By the way it is fine to plug :) When I read it the first time I thought that it really did not fit in with the rest of the stories since it involved time travel. In the context of a simulation, that would mean more than one running at one time, all on different timelines, and being able to hop between them. Maybe ROB is trans-simulation and could have helped this, but I really don't see how anyone in a simulation could get the supercomputer running it to re-set it to a prior time point and insert someone from a future point. It was an interesting story however and I did enjoy reading it.

Robotech, "magic" is a nice simple explanation to explain the unexplainable, but mankind strives for answers, it seeks to understand, and predict and ultimately control those things it can not immediately explain. Faced with an unexplainable force that is threatening mankind itself with extintion, mankind will use all resourses at its disposal, spare no espence, bring the greatest scientific minds, changed and unchanged to work on studying and solving the problem. It may be futile, we may never be able to win against the Gods, but it is the nature of mankind to TRY! You mentioned it is unlikly manking could "hack" its way out. That would be one possibility, since mathematics would likly be the same for both us and the supercomputer and ROB which are both based on mathmatics and logic. however, there are possibities for stories regarding that attempt..and could be very interesting. If I was a writer, I might even try writing one, but who knows...I might anyways.

Back to JonBuck. The link was to an article about people thinking something and it becoming real. Much too powerful, sort of like...writers!
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:Okay. I'm going to clarify some concepts here.
:The Singularity I'm referring to is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity Technological_singularity] . Nothing to do with gravity. A [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman further entry on posthumanism] , and its close relation, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanist Transhumanist]. By Planck-level I mean, basically, the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units smallest length in the universe] . Everything down to those levels is "simulated".
:Moving on, the kind of questions you bring up I actually don't want to deal with. The reason I'm using the ROB acronym in the first place is to avoid overtly religious connotations. I realize that they're very important, but it's otherwise such a contentious issue in the real world. I really don't want to see any "communicating with ROB" stories.
:Post-Singularity intelligences are by nature inscrutable (I've seen Stross refer to them as "Weakly Godlike Entities" in his books). At this point ROB has switched to a "salvage mode" by making direct changes to the "simulation" in the form of alleviating energy crises (a huge concern of mine at the time I wrote most of my stories in this setting) and climate change.
:''Accelerando'' is actually [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerando_%28book%29 available for free].
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:27, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks for the reply Jonbuck, the links were very helpful and I have a clearer idea what you are talking about now. It is going to take me a while to read all the stories.
::I used religious words to describe ideas simply that are familiar but did not mean in any way to be controversial.
::I will try over the next few weeks to put together a short story within your constraints, and if it exceeds your limits we can just change it. I plan to make one assumption, and that is that a simulation is defined by rules set for it that need to be obeyed for it to continue running. ROB changing the speed of light in the simulation for example would be such a fundamental change in everything that it would break the entire simulation, i.e. crash the program. ROB can only work within the rules set for the simulation, agreed?
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:12, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :) At this point the simulation is being salvaged to prevent social chaos, death, and extinction of the people inside it.
:::There's a novel out that has some very similar ideas and influenced a lot of how I set up this setting: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_%28novel%29 ''Darwinia'' by Robert Wilson] .
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:22, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply JonBuck, I can work with that, and will post something in a few weeks for your feedback.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

== About ('''2004''') '''''Victory Starts Here''''' ==

OK, JonBuck, I lied and posted the story in just 2 days. I could not stop thinking about it. I got as far as I could. Could you please read it and then tell me the results of each of the experiments before I can continue in the next one? Thanks!
[[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:17, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

:After the "server crash" of 2011; the original story [[User:Enphilistor|Victory Starts Here]] (by [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] ) is now avalaible (in a very crude, text only format) in the Talk Page of it´s creator: [[User_talk:Enphilistor| Victory Starts Here]]
: -- [[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think I will just have to decide for myself how the experiments turn out and just hope you approve. One of my goals in the stories I plan to write is to explain "scientifically" all the effects you have going on here are consistent with all universal laws. If you are running a program, you can't change the code of the program while it is running. You can change the code but only by stoping the program from running and recompiling it. So anything ROB is doing has to be done inside the simulation following the rules of the simulation (under the premise of the stories I plan to write). It is really not going to be easy for the scientists(i.e. me) to explain the changes to the past records, or why they start off only being change a few years back, then all the way back to the day someone was born, and undoing history such as marriages. And remember, I can't have ROB using "magic", ROB is in the simulation and has to be constrained to its rules. Because of this constraint, ROB needs a "body" someplace and a supply of "energy" from somewhere, to direct and power all these changes. I hope you enjoy my next story, that should be entiteld something like "Victory Continues", where Paul has to cope with being a female pig, and the scientists recieve some confusing results on the origin of the signals they record.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 22:27, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

:Not really. If ROB is outside of the simulation, there's nothing to stop it from pausing the simulation and reworking the fabric of it as necessary. It's like pausing the Sims and placing new walls or whatever. As far as the Sim-people are concerned, those walls might as well as have always been there, even if we (the players) know better. ROB is not inside the simulation, ROB is the player(s) outside the simulation. In no sense does ROB need to obey any rules within the simulation, nor does it need act within the laws of the simulation to change the simulation. By definition anything ROB does is going to be 'magic' because turning people into furries, or editing history, isn't something that's allowed within physical laws. Most of the transformations directly violate the law of the conservation of mass and energy, for example.
:I don't mean to rain on your parade, and I'm clearly not Mr Buck (who might disagree with my explanation), but it seems like you're not quite getting the setting, as I understand it. Hope that helps.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 07:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

::Got it in one, Honeymane. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:30, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

JonBuck said, Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :)

In addition, since ROB hates paradoxes, and will go to such extremes as making sure each child will have both a biological father and a mother and never 2 fathers or 2 mothers, following the rule of conservation in energy and mass is necessary to avoid such paradoxes on an even more fundamental level and in any case easily achieved. If you read my story, that exact experiment has been set up to measure this. Since it is so easy to maintain mass and energy balance, which you will see in the next story, there is no reason to violate this universal law. Imagine the effect on the simulation if you try to break this rule either while it is running or "pausing" it. A calculation is in the process of being made on an object between it and every other object in the universe. In the middle of the calculation a zero is entered (E = mC^2, so if you are going to, C is either zero, which crashes the program and is not what JonBuck said, or as m goes to zero, then c goes to infinity which also changes the velocity of light constant which JobBuck said would not happen). Some calculations have already been performed and other calculations in progress have end up with a divisor of zero. You crash the program when you restart it, as the zero divisor propagates in all the calculations throughout the universe.

In any case, mankind will try and study these effects, and my stories will be mostly concerned with these attempts. However, when I say all laws have to be obeyed, that does not mean all laws that humans know about, it can include new ones. It may be that the results of the experiments will lead them to conclude that something is breaking the laws of the universe because they don't understand them all, but ROB will know what it is doing. I imagine it like this. The main computer can't use its antiviral programming to stop ROB as long as ROB is hiding in the simulation and following the rules in the simulation, but if ROB breaks the rules, and crashes it, he becomes exposed with no place to hide and gets zaped. You will see that in the next story, that ROB is still just as powerful to the same "magic" as it can is now, and still be consistent with all stories that have happened, and the setting JonBuck has set up. JonBuck has not really explained the interaction between the main computer and the virus or any protections or why they are not working. In any case, it doesn't matter what i think, since the stories I plan don't mention this at all, they will be consistent with either ROB being inside or outside the simulation, only what the beings in the simulation measure is in the stories. Just trust me, the story will be interesting and fun, and if JonBuck says no to some result after he reads it, I will change it. Fair?
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 01:54, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I haven't had time to read your story yet. Frankly, reading your comments here I'm getting a little antsy over what exactly the impact it would have on the overall setting. I think you're over-analyzing the setting, frankly. You're asking questions about it that I really can't answer.
:Also, use colons in front of your paragraphs to make them indent and create a "nested" topic. And put a blank line between paragraphs. Thanks.
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:21, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

::For JonBuck I had intentionally not been using indents so that my comments would be totally left justified and everyone the replies for everyone else indented, make it easier in my view to keep things organized. But if you prefer indents, I am easy.
::I had assumed that you had already read the story. It would be good for me to get some feedback on that since none of the things we discuss here are really in it, but may impact it.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think you're confusing the 'players' here. First, there's the computer that all the "real" characters (ie the characters in the story) exist in. ROB 1 is likely someone running the computer, perhaps for anthropological reason, perhaps because they're bored. ROB 2 is unrelated to ROB 1, but for one reason or another, has managed to add a virus program to ROB 1's simulation, causing problems. There are at least 2 viruses that JonBuck has discussed; one that changes gender, and one that changes people into furries, we could, however, imagine that there may have been other viruses in the past, that eventually ROB 1 removed. For example, Atlantis might have been real, and so might have the Greek/etc gods. Atlantians were gifted technology beyond what they should have, and ROB 1 deleted the island to save the program, ROB might have also deleted the Gods, for whatever reason, etc. I'm just speculating here. Now, either ROB can't remove the virus like it did the other problems, or it realized that altering reality was screwing with the program's purpose (such as anthropological study) So rather than delete the TG or TF viruses, ROB 1 created a program to try and mitigate the virus's effects. This program is what causes the history editing (etc).
:Both these viruses exist within the programing of the Computer, but not on a level that would appear to anyone in the program. It's important to remember that time doesn't necessarily pass like it does within the computer; the virus could get it's work done in a nanosecond. Everything else, the sickness, the slow change, all these might be part of the mitigation program's efforts to prevent anyone from changing in public, and to change so suddenly they lose their minds, nor without warning. But there's no reason to think that this computer virus is operating through something like an actual virus, or that the changes are visible on a cell level before the change occurs, even in those showing the signs of the change.
:But again, this is just me talking, not Buck. But I do strongly suggest you hold off writing too much more until Jon has a chance to review your story, or else you might very well find yourself writing something based on ideas that JonBuck doesn't like/want in his setting.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: For Honeymane It is really difficult to hit a moving target. I have not seen in any of the stories and discussions or JonBuck's guidlines about prior activity of ROB. As for ROB1, ROB2, ....ROBN, only one master computer has been mentioned and only one ROB virus. In my understanding, the main comupter has created a SIMULATION. The main computer is infected with a much smaller and more limited "few lines of code" virus, that the beings on one planet in the SIMULATION call the random omnipotent being, but this being is only omnipotent comparted to us, not compared to the main computer. I do not see ROB having the same power to shut down the simulation, pause it, change the rules in it or perform any of the jobs the main computer does.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I see ROB as much more limited. It needs to avoid detection of the antiviral programs, it can't attract their attention, it needs to work by stealth, it is a virus after all, it can't do things that say, "here I am!". And this all follows from things JonBuck has indicated. If he wants to say ROB = main computer in all powers, then well, fine, but he has not done so. He has not defined the motives of ROB or the main computer. when asked, he has said, " I dunno". Given that void, since I need to write in that setting, I find myself creating possible motives for them in my mind.
:It makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, but it helps me limiting ROB to viral powers and behaviors, not mainfraim abilities. A virus has 2 main goals, to keep itself alive and to reproduce itself. ROB may or may not have the second goal, but it will have the first. While doing this in any enviornment, it may cause side effects. Imagine ROB as a biological virus, and a living cell as the simulation that is growing inside a body that is the mainframe. At one time ROB was outside the cell, in the body (mainframe) where lots of antibodies (antiviral programs) were hunting for it. By entering the cell, it is now hidden from the body's defenses. However, if the cell gets sick or dies(ROB crashes the cell simulation) before ROB has either left the cell or reached a state of reproduction where that is desireable, then the body will just devower the cell and grow a new one. So in my scenario, perhaps ROB realized that the purpose of the simulation was about to be achieved, and since ROB is not ready to reproduce, it is messing with the simulation, hyjacking it as a virus hyjacks the DNA of a Cell, to keep the simulation alive longer than it would otherwise, so that it won't reach the conditions for termination, until it can make other copies of itself to infect other simulations. Who knows, maybe with enough copies of itself it can take over the mainfraim. Alternatively, its work at transforming mankind may be the way it is going about reproducing. Alternatively, ROB might have realized the simulation was about to produce a failed reslut which would have terminated the simulation and it is acting to keep itself alive by preventing failure conditions.
:In any case it makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, JonBuck had declined to actually be clear on this, and it really does not matter. The beings in the simulations don't know this, and it is difficult to think of any way they could ever find out. Well actually I could, because I am like that. One way would be if ROB tells them, and since Jonbuck said no comunication with ROB, that won't happen. Another if the mainfram sends a COR (Correcting Omnipotent Being) into the simulation (...and God sent his only begotten son...that type of idea) and told people.
:The second story is half done, and I plan to continue writing it since I have it all layed out in my mind. Hopefully Jonbuck will read the first story and give some feedback before I finish, but I believe he will approve of both stories in any case. And if not, I will change them.
: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: *puts on peacemaker and teacher hats*
:: From what I can tell you're looking for an explicit statement of something that has been implicit in the setting design since the start...
:: Where the Solar System once sat is now a cloud of what you could call "Computronium". Inside this computer are many, many simulations. Whether these simulations are the creation of a separate physical being or the uploaded minds of people is a moot point - we'll never see the "real world". (btw, ROB could actually be an AI that was once a person...)
:: The stories all take place inside one of these simulations that has picked up a couple of viruses somewhere. One of them has been around since at least the late 70's (IIRC, this is mentioned in one of Jon's stories) and the other didn't appear until 1987. The one that showed up in 1987 - the "furry virus" - is newer and initially ROB had tried to contain it using the "Perception Filter". When it somewhat "merged" with the TG virus the simulation got a lot more unstable and ROB had to start including things in its "containment" to help combat that instability. That is the "history revision" stuff. It also is the cause of the changes to married couples with children - because it was seeing potential causes of instability (no more mother/father) and fixing it as it could.
:: There is no "ROB" actually in the simulation - think about the game "The SIMS"... In that game you are the ROB - the creator and maintainer of the simulation. And you can "Pause" the simulation, make changes and restart it. In this case at least the entirety of the solar system is part of the simulation and every time ROB has to make a change it "pauses" the simulation, makes the changes and then hits the "normal speed" button. Now... there might be some people in the world that are actually from outside the sim, but they'd never make themselves known - and they could, probably, act like the ROB and remove any evidence of themselves (outside of memories) from the sim.
:: -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 04:21, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

::: I think a lot of the problems here is a misunderstanding of the source material I'm drawing inspiration for this setting from. Honeymane and ShadowWolf have both described things well. (Though I'm going to bump the TG virus back a few more centuries). A few points.
:::: * ROB exists outside the simulation. Other ROBs are not important. The Virus is not a ROB. However, ROB isn't really a physical being either, as SW describes.
:::: * The Virus originates outside the simulation. Who and what originally made it is a moot point.
:::: * The intent of said "virus" (the term only fits loosely) is to throw a monkeywrench into ROB's simulation of our universe. The reason why it hasn't been contained is that it was created by a slightly more advanced post-Singularity Mind than ROB. Since ROB can't contain it, ROB can only mitigate.
:::: * Essentially, the two virii are intended to cause social chaos via random transformations. It doesn't exist to propagate itself to other simulations. In the first case, a "quarantine" of sorts was created via modifying the present records of those TGed to reflect their new gender. If it was true history editing neither the person transformed nor the people who knew them would remember what they'd been. What ROB is changing are just the present physical objects.
:::Honestly, go read Part 2 of Accelerando. It was originally started as short stories, so you can pick it up there. That's where a lot of the concepts for Paradise started.
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 05:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, it seems terminology is messing me up. I was under the apparently mistaken belief that ROB was the virus, and the Mainfraim running the simulation(s). I believed this because the virus was random and chainging someone to a furry is sort of mildy omnipotent. Yes, I fully agree that if ROB = Mainfraim(or AI who might have once been human) then ROB must definatly outside the simulation. My comments were consering only the virus(es) that are causing the transgender/furry transformations.
Let me call the form that can do either one or the other or both, the Random Omnipotent Virus, ROV for short so there will be no misunderstandings. I can see ROB stoping the simulation and making corections, eliminating divisions by zero and all that. However, ROV should not have those abilities, being just a lowly virus, compared to ROB. The stories I wish to write constrain ROV to using the same old laws that existed in 1987, and prior to that if there was the TG virus. The universe we live in now was supposed to be identical to that one until 1987, I would like that ROV should be handicaped a little by the rules ROB created for the simulation. A simulation is to test SOMETHING, and if you start changing the rules (ie laws of nature) your results are just not going to simulate the conditions you wanted to in the real world, where you don't have the power to change the laws of nature.
The experiments the humans are setting up in my first story will indicate only the effects being caused by ROV. If ROV is outside or inside the simulation does not really matter, but if ROV can behave just like ROB, then that study is just not going to produce anything interesting either scientifically, or plot wise. Such violations of the laws of nature might just scream at them "There really must be a god involved." and we never want them to know or suspect ROB or the true nature of ROV. To have a scientific study, I would like ROV to follow the laws of the universe, for any of the reasons described here and in prior posts. I will work out some reasons that make sense to the humans for all things happening regarding the transformations, to keep them studying and not just throw up their hands in frustration, if that is ok.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]]

== Count of Changed in 1997 ==

Hello! I'm new here, but I really like this setting and read probably most of the stories. I even made my own table in Excel to draw the changing numbers as a graphic (Also for my hometown to get a grip on the numbers). And there I noticed something:

Maybe I just missed a story or paragraph where it is explained, but shouldn't there be 1024 Changed in 1997 instead of 1028? Where do the additional 4 Furries come from? I know this is just minor, but the error is kept through the following years till the end and all the numbers are wrong (It doesn't however change the fact that 2020 is the last year).

It's not so important, but it's been bugging me since I noticed it. -- [[User:TigeR|TigeR]] 15:53, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:Check out the [[Paradise (Setting)]] page. It has all the numbers. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

:: Jon, you do have a +4 in 1997 over a strict doubling. This is what he was pointing out and asking questions about. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: And fixed! -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:37, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: This error went a heck of a lot deeper and its possible that the skew-factor introduced in 1997 effected the percentages as time went into the future - however... I fixed this by hand and then verified the figures against a program that output every power of two from zero to the 33rd. As it stands this table now has correct figures for the furry population and one can only assume that the historical figures for population are correct and the projection fits the curve correctly. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:55, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Paradise:The Soundtrack ==

Not sure about anyone else, but I find music to be a major inspiration.. Well of course it

is... the song "Strangers by Yoko Kanno" got this series off the ground did it not?

So I decided to put together a soundtrack, it's not available for download because I own

none of these songs... But if you happen to have them, you can arrange them in your iPod

Playlist, if you want.. I mean I'm not forcing ya, it's just a possibility.

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0b58V573l8 '''Yoko Kanno''' - Strangers -_Wolf's Rain - Strangers by Sori Smile-_ ] <- { The begining of ALL of this... }

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IroHea5FOj8 '''Bliss 66''' - Not Quite Paradise ] <- {''This song pretty much hits the entire series on the head... (It's from the ending of [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb2aMjprmdo Titan A.E.], damn good movie, do see it sometime)''}

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqds0B_meys '''Three Days Grace''' - Animal I Have Become]

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-scESgTnoUM '''Goo Goo Dolls''' - Iris]

: '''Mighty Bosstones''' - Impression That I Get

: '''Lee Brotherton''' - Dream Of An Asbolution

: '''Cash Cash''' - Speak With Your Heart

: '''Eminem''' - Beautiful

: '''Shania Twain''' - Man I Feel Like A Woman

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE9zpOyNDoA '''Chip Tha Ripper''' - SLAB Freestyle -_What Are You Inside? - Furries In A Blender_- ] <- { ''Joke YouTube Entry'' }

: '''Tears For Fears''' - Everybody Wants To Rule The World

: '''Foo Fighters''' - The Pretender

and finally:

: '''John Mayer''' - Waiting On The World To Change

I think I forgot some, but yeah, definitely these. - [[User:Hawl|Hawl]] (1/10/11, 1:55 PM)

: The new ''metadata format'' for the songlist is: %'''Artist'''% - %Songtitle% -_%YTtitle%-_ <- {%''comment''%}

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8IujL8_sMI '''Stanfour''' - For All Lovers] <- { ''My Favorite ; "...For all the Changeds, and Believers..."'' }

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4w3lPYoBX8 '''Stanfour''' - Everything Has Changed]

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjlM_RnsVE '''Skillet''' - Monster]

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-makfpBrSQ '''Three Days Grace''' - Never too late]

: -- [[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:50, 03 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Paradise (Setting)

2011-02-04T02:23:56Z

Argamis: /* Paradise:The Soundtrack */

It's an interesting setting, what I've read so far, and I've got an idea or two percolating that may or may not come to fruition. A seed is trying to sprout for an idea starting in '05 and going forward. - [[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 19:50, 10 January 2008

---

After the 2011 crash, the setting lost the most newer storys and the enrichment data inside their related Talk_Pages.
Maybe we can get back these with this -> [http://www.archive.org/web/web.php Internet Wayback Machine] in the far-far future (when the data gets very very old, its then available there).

If the "Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like an array that canalize the flow of "hot ideas" through it´s "insulated tube-rules" (preventing the "leaking and cooling" of the new storys in their necesary "plot-curves" and "bottlenecks-dramas"). . .
Then the "Talk:Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like the Virtual Remote Control Panel for that powergrid. When a new "hot idea" pop up in the wrong place or it´s going the wrong direction, a colision alarm sound here!.
The "already resolved discussions" divert automatically the issue, and for the real original new ones, at last offer a series of nearby "exhaust valves" designed for the protection of the "global setting" system.
:--[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 21:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Theory on how the Change 'spreads' ==

Been thinking about how it might spread, such that we have a higher proportion of Changed in NA, but not leaving the rest of the world out, and I think I know how.

The 'computer virus' that Changes people, uses the RDF to spread itself. Our 'program's' own protection method is also spreading the damages.

Basically, I am guessing that if the RDF needs to kick in on you, then you are passively 'infected'.

Then, when August 17th comes around, the Virus triggers itself, but it for whatever reason can only copy itself for every previously Changed person. (The Doubling effect), and it can only affect people that have been passively infected, ie people who have had the RDF kick in on them.

The goal of the virus is to spread as far as it can, so it takes the number of new Changed it can, and spreads it more or less evenly across the available (RDF-affected) population.

So the first Changed is in Chicago (I think). Through the year until the next Change, she will encounter thousands of people, even in passing, which triggers the RDF on them and passively infects them.

Come August, 1988, the next Changed will be picked randomly from those thousands of people, and now we'll have 2 people spreading the RDF virus. 1989, a big chunk of Chicago has probably had the RDF trigger at least once, not to mention some tourists and other visitors to the city.

In 89, we get 2 more Changed, and one of them could possibly be in a different random city, just because he'd been to Chicago in the past 2 years and unknowingly seen a Changed, and a new nest of RDF-field affected people starts up.

European and Asian and Oceanic outbreaks could happen in years to come as the number of tourists and business people from those reasons travel into North America and begin to be fielded and infected themselves.

The 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City probably 'infected' most of the people who were around and watching, meaning that by then (if not before) pretty much anyone has a chance to be Changed.

It also means that truly isolated areas of the world (South Pacific islands, isolated Amazonian tribes, etc) could potentially be unchanged after the 2020 deadline; but any encounter at all with a Changed would likely Change them immediately and spread like wildfire through the village)

And while the RDF may 'fail' at some point, it'll probably still be around in a less effective form, trying to maintain some stability and spreading the Change. --[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]
:I'll give that some thought. It's somewhat similar to something I already had in mind. Perhaps those who have the RDF fail completely will be much more likely to change the next year, or they might even change out-of-phase. In any case, once they figure out that it's like a communicable disease, and everyone is already 'infected', the remaining humans will go nuts. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 12:35, 27 January 2008 (EST)

The spread and the exact reason for the "double" number each year, is as if the virus had only one chance per year to run it´s replication part code. (And someone sugest the use of "infected flags" for the furry virus to later identify the already changed).

The fractal-but-random nature of the spread means the Virus need the furrys alive for it´s reproduction, but not proximity at all (probably because the "computronium cloud" it´s an 11-dimension construct); so when the change secuence start, it´s because a "superior computational request" (diferent from the virus itself) has the need to do something to all the humans in the world, but not something that change all of them in a masive, blind generic "*.*" way.

If the detection of a emergent post-human-like inteligence is the reason of the "simulation", then it´s logical for the "server" to execute some "checking subrutine" regulary (once per year) on the most inteligent elements; stoping the propagation of uber-mutated-code things that come from outside the simulation.
If the server detects something "wrong" in a human, then It will try to correct any mistakes wihout killing him/her. --[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 00:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I had my theory of how it works the spread:
Every time one furry see/hear another furry (under the efect of the RDF) the Virus of both exchange <IP-person> links of eachother and save this in the "already changed" Virus Flag.
When a non-infected human see/hear a furry, the Virus try to do some "minor modifications" on the human through the RDF, and then set a "infected" Virus flag on his/her data.

When the server "anual check" detect a human with an "infected" Virus flag, thinks that some very critical "code" is missing in that human, and found a message like: "there is a copy of the same code here: <IP-(furry)person>" (this message and the "missing part" of the code, were the "minor modifications" made by the RDF-Interactive-Section of the Furry Virus).
{The TG Virus do not had this "tricky message" in it´s code, and has to wait the ocurrence of an eventual "copy&paste" for his activation/reproduction (this explain the few hundred human affected for this in thousands of years...), then the relationship between the TG Virus and the Furry Virus is a parasite one (or maybe mutualism, we do not know for sure).}

The server now go to the IP-furry_person and check him/her (see more below), then copy the complete code of the Virus and paste-it in the middle of the code of the "infected" human (because has more elevated access privileges, the "server" can write directly on the most "critical" and "active" part of the code of the infected human, the Virus itself can´t do that); then his/her body it´s "corrected" with the furry data "carried" by the living furry that infected his/her previusly.
The Server set a "xxxx check: DONE" server flag in the new furry (xxxx is the year).
The Virus check the flags, change the "infected" to "already changed" on the newbie furry, and modify his <IP_person> to a higher number (this way every year the server check only the humans and the "infected" humans first).

When the server check a furry, (without the "xxxx check: DONE" of that year) see the "already changed" flag like a "minor" error code, then try to restore his/her original (human) form; but the Virus uses the list of <IP-furry> links, and copy&paste the same Virus code again and again from multiple sources... {this is only posible between furry<->furry , the read&write its not restricted between active "brother" Viruses. In fact some "real virus" an P2P users works like this ^_^)
The server left the furry "minor" code intact, but set "xxxx check: FAIL" flag on him/her and go for the next...
Every time one infected human goes furry, the "check" on the previus furry Virus "carrier" blocks any posibility of ANOTHER human infected (by the same "carrier") goes to furry that year.

This way, every year the contact between every group of furries<->humans AND furries<->furries it´s equal in importance (for the expansion of the Virus) as it was the previusly year, the IP-furry-links only can double the efective total number of furry if already exist some conection between all of they (pasive in great citys, active search&contact in more remote regions). --[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 00:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

== Change and disabilities? ==

I keep forgetting to bring this up on IRC, but how do people (as in writers and other interested people in this setting) think disabilities would be affected by the change? Both Mental and Physical?

Would a paraplegic who lost his legs in an accident regrow them if he changed? Would he regain the use of them if they weren't lost but just disabled? (back injury)? What about false teeth, deafness, blindness, etc?

What if the cause was not from a physical accident, but was viral or bacterial in nature? Some disease struck them blind? Would they stay blind?

And what if the disabilities were genetic? Would those genetic flaws still show in the new form?

Finally, what about mental disabilities? Could the Change 'cure' Alzheimer's? Would it affect someone who is literally a brain dead vegetable on life support?

If it does have curative properties, I suspect we'll start seeing more and more miracle cures (assuming they can survive the flu) in the years to come. Which may imply that there'll be a push in the early to mid 2010's to just keep someone alive as long as possible in the home they Change and are cured/fixed.

Thoughts?

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 11:00, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:I think there are good arguments to be made for some healing properties of the Change, but I wouldn't make it go all out. A person missing a limb should still be missing a limb after the change (I have in mind a scene with a one-armed pianist who goes monkey and starts playing with his feet).

:When it comes to things like Alzheimer's, that is a much more difficult choice. I don't see mental retardation being suddenly healed by the Change, as that is a birth defect (and such things happen in animals too). But progressive diseases may backtrack, even if the conditions begin to return over time. That could make an even more painful story, somebody suffering from Alzheimer's, who Changes and now recognizes all his family again. But after a year or so everything starts to slip away again...

:Anyway, the whole keeping folks alive and hoping for a Change could make a good dynamic too. I just think there's a lot fo possibilities to consider before we make a decision on this. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:24, 4 February 2008 (EST)
::I'm inclined to do as Matthias suggests. It's more or less what I had in mind. However, one of the things that the Change does is it puts everyone in very good health. Even being a 300 pound female bear, CM is in very good shape. It will cure some ailments, and put chronic diseases into remission. Those developments will confuse the medical community enough without regrowing limbs or curing Down's Syndrome. But if you've read the latest Tall Tales, ROB is being forced to act more openly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 15:40, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:What happens to medical devices like heart pacemakers or hip replacements that were implanted in people before they changed? --[[User:JeniSkunk|Jenifur Charne]] 20:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::That's basically an open-ended question. I'm going to leave the answer to that one unsaid because I think it'd be a good Plot Point in a story. A furry episode of ''House'' maybe? --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::Late into the discussion, but better late than never. : ) Anyway, what about things like fillings and caps on teeth? Going to a dentist would be interesting. Going another step, outside medical devices wouldn't fit anymore and would bring up some unique delimas. What about people with prosthetics? If someone turns into a bear, I'm sure their leg isn't going to fit anymore, yet Unknown will wonder why they make such a claim all of a sudden. Lots of places to go with these stories. [[User:Tinbender|Tinbender]] 21:24, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Hey, not really sure on any of the points raised, have to give it some thought. One thing to consider though is can anthro's act as a bridge to humans for viruses that currently only affect animals?--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 23:35, 10 February 2008 (EST)

== A mortal analysis of Paradise ==

Lets me see if I get some of the details right.

There is a post-singularity Uber-computer, that when projected into 3-space, has the same consistency as humanity's combined thumbnail and happens to be running a simulation of the events leading up to its own creation. Secondly, it gets infected by a super-bug/virus that makes borg nano-probes look overly large and cumbersome. Said post-singularity, sentient, ROB-type entity/ virus changes some lines of code (if such things can be referred to as such) in reference to the people in the simulation, in and around the vicinity of Chicago (maybe the super-bug's designers had way-distant ancestors from there, or whose ancestors had a grudge against the place). The Uber-comp, in a flash of inspiration counters with the 'firewall-from-not-heck', or RDF as we understand it. The ROB is still successful with its dastardly and despicable plan to make the simulated history end differently.

That I get as far as it can be understood by a three-dimensional entity not particularly versed in post-singularity, multi-dimensional physics and computational theory.

The RDF, The Veil, The "Really-Annoying-Mess-Up-Everyones-Lives" Field, appears to start collapsing or 'twisting' in several personal accounts. In fact, it would seem that there are certain individuals who have appeared to figure out means of 'gazing-past' the gaps in said previously mentioned field even though they do not have one of their own. Yes it has been theorized that they will soon fall victim to the ROB, however, consider that all of this is in one sense mere coding (albeit it happens to be far more complex than that), and that said people are taking advantage of 'bugs' in the code. How many bugs are there? Is it possible for someone (probably a changed, or mad scientist) to 'tune' or 'tinker' with the field, probably no more than tweaks to appearance or color? I know the Primary Engineer Of This Work has stated that there are no 'powers', but then again, this is all just code, and hackers can sometimes be just mortal.

Just a thought or two. I should probably stop this monologue before a super spy shows up.
~midon~

:You're pretty close overall, though the simulation doesn't necessarily have to be of the ROB's own creation. Human Earth could be something It came up with all by Itself. Another book that's similar to what I've come up with here is ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_(novel) Darwinia]''. Someone suggested that the best thing for the ROB to do is to restore from backup. The thing is, these are still people. ROB doesn't have a moral problem with allowing them to die within the sim, but will act to protect both itself and its people from an outside threat. Hence the RDF and other measures.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 17:46, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Thinking far future... ==

First, to make it VERY clear, I am NOT thinking of any stories or anything set in the 2020 period yet. I've just been thinking of how the world may be like by then, as the last half are about to change.

I suspect there would be a mix of celebration (the last humans are joining us!) and mourning (humans will no longer be as they were). Regionally, there will probably be searches for the "last human baby", the ones born days/hours before the last Aug 17 change; they'd probably be local celebrities, similar to "New Years Babies"

And in 2021, the nervousness would start. Is the change source gone? Is it mutating? Are we going to change further? Or into something else now? For the Changed Generation, that little shiver of fear every August 17th will probably persist until they are all gone.

All that assumes civilization hasn't fallen apart by then of course. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:42, 25 February 2008 (EST)

== Summer Olympics ==

This was nagging at the back of my mind a bit, but I finally nailed it down to actually check dates:

:"The 2008 Summer Olympics, officially known as the Games of the XXIX Olympiad, will be celebrated from August 8, 2008 to August 24, 2008".

For the record, the 2004 Olympics also just straddled the Change day, having started on Aug 13th. No other Summer Olympics have straddled Change day, but the 1996 games ended just before it, and the Paralympic Games that year did straddle the Change day.

The 2012 games in London curiously have a break between the end of the Olympics on Aug 12, 2012, and the start of the Paralympics on Aug 29.

Just something to think about for writers out there. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:The Change takes place right in the middle of the Olympics. All it takes is for one or two athletes to change to gum up the works. These people are already in top physical shape, too. But what happens when a swimmer becomes a dolphin, an otter, or perhaps something that doesn't swim well? I don't think the RDF can handle becoming as large as a rhino. They'll still displace an awful lot of water when they splash in.

:I'll have to mention this in Open Secrets.

:--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:53, 27 February 2008 (EST)

::At least the illness will be a bit of a cover. Depending on how many Changed athletes there are, (both active and new Changed), the illness could be used to skip out on some events out of necessity.

::Still the pressure to perform, even if their form is inappropriate for the sport (A Bull trying to do a polevault or the triathlon in general? A bear for gymnastics? A Mouse in weightlifting? ) will be intense

::There would probably be a lot of discussion when a star athlete suddenly isn't performing as well as they did before.

::Of course, a few years after that, the Beijing Olympics here will probably end up with a * like the LA and Moscow Olympics, as people find out about the Change and the number of ringers (otters in swimming events, felines and primates in gymnastics, gazelles and cheetahs in track events, bears and bulls in weight lifting, etc...) semi-intentionally sent by the various countries. We could very well see TTC-level problems happening in Olympic Village.

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== What happens ''after'' 2020? ==

Point one: Computer programs are never ''intrinsically'' equipped with an off-switch. Rather, a shutdown condition must be explicitly coded into a program -- and any program which ''lacks'' an explicit shutdown condition, will continue to chug merrily along until something hardware-ish gets in the way.

Point two: The Change is the result of a 'furry virus", ''i.e.,'' a '''computer program'''.

2020 is when the entire planetary population will be furry... but who's to say the 'furry virus' won't ''continue'' to do its thing, Changing people year in and year out, with each year's quantity of Changes being double that of the year before? We know that being Changed is ''not'' an absolute protection against the 'furry virus' -- the setting rules themselves ''explicitly allow'' previously-Changed people to get hit with another dose of Change, after all -- so ''either'' (a) the 'furry virus' ''does'' have an explicitly-coded off-switch, or else (b) starting in 2020, an ever-increasing number of people are going to end up Changing ''two or more times in any given year.''

If the 'furry virus' ''has'' a built-in off-switch, that begs the question of what, exactly, its shutdown condition ''is.'' Does it stop spreading/infecting when there's no unchanged Human left, is it waiting for some specific event or combination of events before it quits, or what? Perhaps the guy who wrote the 'furry virus' did so with the specific intent of encouraging ROB to make [insert specific changes here] in ROB's virtual world, such that the results of those changes are the virus's 'off-switch'?

If, on the other hand, the 'furry virus' has ''no'' built-in brakes, things can get weird, fast. People have already floated the notion of Changes happening "out of season"; what if these 'unscheduled' Changes are merely a harbinger of things to come, in which people can be re-zapped at any time of year, an arbitrarily large number of times per year? It may be instructive, or at least amusing, to extrapolate the data given in "The Numbers", and divide each year's expected number of Changes by the expected population for that year: In 2020, there's 1.12 Changes per person (perhaps every human being Changes, regardless of their current state, and there's a 12% chance of one guy Changing ''twice?).'' Since we're basically talking about a doubling function, it only takes until 2024 for every ex-human to be an involuntary member of the Change Of The Month Club (because there's a touch over 17 Changes per person that year), and the Change Of The '''Day''' Club starts up in 2029 (during which year there's a bit less than 514 Changes per person per year). In 2034, the extrapolated number of Changes per person for that year is significantly over 15,000 (which works out to about 7/4 of a Change ''per hour,'' every hour, for every human being); by 2040, we hit 1.75 Changes per ''minute;'' 2046 is when every human being starts to hit 1 Change per ''second.''

To repeat what I said above: Things get weird, fast.

Obviously, the above figures are ridiculous, since they're derived from mindless extrapolation of an exponential curve. Perhaps the most sensible way to go is to presume that ROB manages to ''do'' something about the metatstasizing 'furry virus' no later than 2025 or so. In any case, one hopes said figures at least provide a bit of food for thought... [[User:Cubist|Cubist]] 05:03, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

== Change and the Media ==

It's probably a sign that I watch WAY too much TV, but it's a theme that's been in the back of my mind (man that back area's getting mighty crowded with ideas). As the Change progresses, even with the Veil in place, more and more effects of the Change will start showing up in other ways, and it will become more and more 'public' even if the Unchanged won't really know what is going on. I suspect TV shows especially will begin to show a lot of these.

This is just some of my rambling thoughts on what the TV Cable signals might be sending to the screens of the Changed near-Future.

Reality TV in all its forms will probably be the first to really start showing the effects of the Changed, since they tend to have the fastest turnaround time and the most contact with non-actors. Court shows (like I wrote in my short story case) will have more and more cases of Changed vs Norms and even weird Changed vs Changed cases. "He won't share the nail clippers!" "She gifted me the money for the vacation to Alaska in January")

Gameshows also will start having more Changed contestants, especially popular ones like Price is Right.

And then you have the Survivor types. Show's like "Top Model" and "Bachelor(ette)" and "Blind Date" (especially given the Change's habit of giving the Changed Eye-turning bodies) will probably have the most Changed on a show early on (whether intentionally or unintentionally).

Home Makeover shows may start seeing even weirder designs as designers/homeowners remake rooms to give room for antlers or bigger buttons for hoof fingers and such. (We thought Frank's designs on Trading Spaces were weird BEFORE he Changed... :P )

Amazing Race may have a Changed Team soon; a few Changed in the Big Brother House (probably intentionally put in there by a Changed Studio staffer), and the next Survivor or two would probably have some contestants.

Once the Field comes down, I fully expect CBS to roll out a "Furries vs Normals" Survivor while they can.

Now onto more tasteful TV. (arguably :P )

Cartoons? (what few new ones that are made) will likely start having more and more of a furry bend to them. Hallowe'en specials may turn 'human' toons into furry ones as experiments to transition shows.

Soaps? Expect Change stories fairly soon I dare say. I don't watch them myself, but from what I've heard of some storylines they've done in the past, the Change isn't all that strange. These writers will probably be chaffing at the restrictions of the Field the most.

Sitcoms will probably start getting Changed in-jokes fairly quickly as more Changed writers and actors come on staff. Some of the jokes may verge on Veil-breaking too, but viewers would discount as visual FX.

Procedurals/Drama's, business as normal but more Change-related stories. Maulings and gorings investigated on CSI's (along with strange fingerprints/bootprints, hair samples, etc...), Without a Trace investigating people who disappear after Change Day, maybe even a TG mystery. Numb3rs maybe touching on the Change rate (imagine Chris brought in as an advisor for an ep ? :) ). House or ER dealing with a Changed patient and/or Changed doctors/nurses.

And finally (for now) Sci Fi/Fantasy shows will probably find themselves in a very difficult position. On the one hand, they'd be ideal to start exploring the Change itself. On the other hand, as long as the Field is in effect, they can't really explore them since they'd have to turn normals into Furry's (or dress furry's in fursuits). Plus, a show's setting may not exactly be ideal for adjusting to the Change. "SG-1/Atlantis" may be able to adjust (turn it into an Ori curse or something), but Terminator would have a harder time. Heroes could probably pull it off, but BSG? Unlikely. (Imagine them finding 'Earth' but it's a Furry Earth... Hmmm...)

Anyways, that's just some of my rambling thoughts on the TV of the near future, for what its worth.

:There's a simple way to make furries show up in Television. Simply use the polarized lenses as featured in Open Secrets on the video camera units. The image of the furries would pass through the polarized lenses onto the film. The film would record the true image in the same way that people would see the true image. Boom, RDF circumvented. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:26, 28 January 2009 (EST)

:: True those would work. But everyone involved for those scenes would have to Know or questions would be raised. Depending on the scene and production. (Thouhg some could be handwaved, as long as the producer/editors Know. "Bob's gonna play the part of a man-rat for this scene. We'll CG-replace him in Editing afterward"

::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 12:33, 28 January 2009 (EST)

::: Well, at the very least, the cameraman is going to be in the know fast! Actually, I could see something like this being done once things go public. We could have a documentary on the early Changed (while you can still get human actors!), and you'd have some cameras with the filter on it and some without so you could show what the Changed sees and what the unsuspecting humans around him see. --[[User:98.236.12.68|98.236.12.68]] 05:14, 29 January 2009 (EST)

:::: That is happening to some extent, though not with the filters yet. Shiloh (and her new boyfriend newly Changed this year) are doing what they can to document the Change and how it affects lives as it happens (on the side from their main jobs), and I'm sure she's far from alone on this.

:::: Once more Documentary makers get ahold of this and it goes public, I'm sure there will be more too.

::::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:33, 29 January 2009 (EST)

== Furries in Space? ==

OK Time for even more thoughts from me. :) Endeavor's launch last night triggered this thought.

I'm not going to elaborate, but is anyone watching the ISS crew for change symptoms? Or the shuttle crew if they're up? A Change up there could be Veil breaking just because of the amount of attention and lack of privacy those people have. (not to mention the extreme circumstances they'd be under).

The Change itself could very well spell the end of Manned space flight for the next few decades in the end.

Not sure if it would spell the end of manned space flight but yeah even just an examination of the air filter would find stuff that couldn't have gotten up there any other way.--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 19:16, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

:I'm sure it'd be the end of manned space flight for quite some time simply for economic reasons if nothing else. This is going to be rather disruptive and there'll probably be a bit of a budget pinch. [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

==The Reality Distortion Field is Real ==

Sadly, not the one you have in mind: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/18/2117208 :) [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

== Bats? ==

Just a question about the species: I've noticed you put aside birds for now, but what about bats?--[[User:142.68.130.19|142.68.130.19]] 23:52, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:Bats will put a huge strain on the Veil. If/when they do show up, it might be coming down by then anyway. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:36, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Farming in Paradise ==

Just shooting an idea in here for later. [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080410153658.htm This is the technology] widely deployed it the Paradise setting. But put the clock back ten years (1997 discovery, widespread global deployment by 2008). Biochar/agrichar. With any luck, the Green Revolution will be replaced with the Black Gold Revolution quickly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== BioFuels ==

Jon, you're beginning to scare me a bit. :P

This was just on Slashdot this morning: [http://www.utexas.edu/news/2008/04/23/biofuel_microbe/ New Source for Biofuels Discovered by Researchers At The University of Texas at Austin]

Basically, some bacteria that can make cellulose which can be turned to fuel, and the cellulose can be harvested without harming the bacteria.
--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 06:10, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

:I read about this yesterday. They hope to increase production efficiency 17-fold because otherwise, you'd have to cover the ''entire'' Midwest with this. Unfortunately it won't happen fast enough to prevent the shortages I know are coming.

:I read about this stuff every day. I mean, ''every'' day. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:19, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Another bit of news: [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece "Scientists find bugs that eat waste and excrete petrol."] --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 11:12, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== The Chicago Ghost Killer ==

After having seen countless videos of Persona 3 on youtube, and having played the .hack//GU games, and having read about this setting repeatedly, this idea was born out of my skull. It doesn't really fit with the setting per-say, (people dealing with expected changes in their lives and the changing of culture as truth becomes harder and harder to keep hidden), but it's still interesting.

Imagine if once the number of furries hits the thousand mark or close to it (1997), a strange series of murders begin in Chiago and wander outwards. To normal police and investigators these people have -nothing- in common, just random innocent people. But the furries know that every single person killed was a furry! Now this is where things start to get weird.

When seen by furries, the killer is a lanky laid back twenty something raven haired young man whose expression almost always remains passive wearing semi-formal dark clothes with a revolver in one hand and spare bullets in the opposite pocket.

When the police just about anyone else whose effected by the perception filter see him, they see 'Average Joe' or 'Face You Can't Help But Forget' and never ever notice the weapon he's holding unless he hits them with it or shoots them or something just as drastic. It is also is picked up by metal detectors the same as any metal gun. In other words, his existence, is like the existence of furriness to normal humans, his existence effects them, but they can't notice him directly.

This guy always knows a furry when he sees one regardless of media or medium, or reads one, this include file records of people TGed by the virus. When he spots one or finds out about one, he calmly location that person, in order of him learning about them, and shoot that person in the head without fanfare then simply move on to the next one.

Physically his strength and speed are all perfectly average human, meaning a bear or tiger furry could easy tear him apart.

Strange thing is that if profiled, no records of him will turn up, anywhere!

Also, he might even begin to appear DIFFERENTLY to people who are under the effect of the perception filter. He can't appear as a furry, and can NEVER EVER appear as a precise person (he can't appear as someone's mother or brother). But he can ultimately change how people look at him, they see a five year old girl with a teddy bear opposed to a man with a revolver even if he STILL can't fit in a toy car for the life of him and that 'bear' might go off if someone else 'hugs' it, (which he'd avoid someone doing at all posts). He could also appear as a fire fighter or police officer if he gets clever enough. Though furries will -always- see through this disguise. Along with any human whose able to see furries without effort.

The Chicago Ghost Killer never attacks non-changed humans, and will never take a shot if there's a reasonable chance of shooting a non-changed person.

He travels by mundane methods, he always travels by the most practical and speedy method and always has the correct change or ticket (this is not an illusion). His taxi, train, or airplane never crash.

If detained for questioning, he might just walk straight out of the police station unless some of the cops are furries. If stripped of his weapon and ammo next time he shows up he'll have a new set perfectly identical to the last one down to the imperfections in the casing.

Now this is where things get ambiguous. I don't know if he's killed he just appears in Chicago the day after the change again each year, or weather two different people with abilities similar to his appear in his stead these armed with a crossbow and another one shot distance weapon.

Since deleting the entire universe is not an option, The Chicago Ghost Killer might be an emergency fail safe to try and cut off the infected flesh from the system.

His name comes from where he started killing (strangely the same place as the changes began) and the fact that to normal humans he IS like a ghost, there yet not there but decidedly felt.

I know this doesn't really fit with the setting at all, but I just had to share it with the only people who'd appreciate it.

Thank you.

- Alex Warlorn. 2008 06 15

:And his name is Agent Johnathan Walker Smith, is it? Seems like a Matrix Agent to me... (unsigned comment)
::Actually I don't think he'd -have- a name, or even know the true nature of the world, he'd just know what he -had- to do and how to do it and how he can do it.-- Alex Warlorn

== Octuplets born in California ==

Things that make you go Hmmmm....

8 babies at once
Planning to breast feed them all.
Names not being released (yet).

Could we have a changed couple hiding out there from the glare of the media spotlight? :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:25, 27 January 2009 (EST)

=='''Future RDF Failure'''==

I'm starting to work out ideas about how the RDF would fail. My current thinking is that it will work on a small scale first. Visually, there would be a "refraction", like seeing your own eyes through your glasses. Or your leg halfway in a pool. This is the "Refraction Effect". These are places where the RDF has been removed, like a section of glass, revealing the Real World underneath. It's gone. The visual effect makes it clear a border's been crossed. I'm not sure ''when'' this is going to happen. Probably sometime near the US Gov wants to go public. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 07:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

===Weirdness Censor?===

I've been thinking about an "RDF Lite" that could basically act as a Weirdness Censor instead of the full blown see-furries-as-humans version that exists right now. There'd still be social upheaval, but not the civilization-ending type that would most likely happen. I'm very likely going to do this in After Hours, but I want to do it right. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

==The "Posthuman" World ==

In order to differentiate this setting from WoC more, I'm going to keep a certain number of regular humans in the furry world that results when the virus runs its course. Same rules as other furry types as far as parent-child species. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 19:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

:No offense, but that feels like a cop-out to me. As someone else pointed out, a computer virus is NOT going to simply 'burn itself out' a computer virus continues like any program infinitely unless it's directly ordered to. Once it runs out of humans to transform, it'll start to transform furries into other species, and become even more chaotic as time progresses. I just feels cheap the virus suddenly just stops, and it doesn't make sense form a programming point of view either since it would open MANY MORE cans of worms anyway. -- Alex Warlorn June 15 2009

::Okay. How to address this? A lot of my ideas for this setting comes from Charles Stross's work, which can get pretty mind-bending at times. ''Accelerando, Glasshouse, Singularity Sky'', and ''Iron Sunrise'' all come to mind. One of my basic assumptions is that the Furry Virus is itself sentient/sapient, but it's not ''quite'' as smart as the transhuman intelligence running the Simulation Space that is our universe (down to the Planck Length).

::The RDF was a last-ditch effort to maintain the experiment as it was. We're all a bunch of microbes, as far as ROB is concerned. But It's not the type of Being to just chuck the whole experiment into the incinerator and start over. At this point ROB has scrapped the original experiment in favor of trying to prevent our little petri dish universe from going completely bad. So, 1) contain the Furry Virus, and 2) prevent it from doing any more damage beyond 2020 by creating a specific End State. The FV remains, but it becomes an uncommon chronic disease.

::Frankly, now that furries and the TGed have been Outed ROB may even stop the history editing. More obvious actions include: Refilling dead oilfields, creating social conditions so humans aren't really surprised at the Change. There are probably all kinds of countermeasures ROB has done that I haven't thought of in order to keep people from going ''crazy crazy'' and incinerating their own petri dish. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::I was thinking of a similar idea, but in a programming context as opposed to a biological one, and ''very'' limited. Think of every person as an element of an array, i.e. Human[]. An algorithm designed to change the values of every element, like the furry virus is doing, would most likely go from 0 to some constant POPULATION_HUMAN. In that case, ROB might be able to circumvent the effects for the virus for a select few by assigning people to special values: NULL, NaN, -1, MAX_INT, INFINITY, or other predefined numbers, even those that aren't considered "special" to humans. The purpose of this would be to preserve ''some'' unaltered "data" for purposes not important to us, and it can't be done for all humans because of the effort or memory required to "manually" fix so many values.

:::Conversely, perhaps ROB will let the virus run its course so It can then safely run a variation of the virus to turn everyone back into humans. That would be another interesting take: when the world's furry in 2020, how will everyone feel when they find out they'll all be human again by about 2055, depending on population, and perhaps if the same thing happens in cycles? ...

:::...Or if it turns out that life has been this way for a long, ''long'' time. Thinking back to what ROB has been able to do, this is easily within Its power. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 05:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::ROB figures it's best to let the virus run its course then neutralize it like I've described. Perhaps ROB's reworking the Experiment to account for the new changes.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Colons! Colons as far as the eye can see! Ahaha.

:::::One little problem I had with ''Accelerando'' (though I did indeed love it in all other respects) was how completely unfathomable the Higher Beings were. You never could figure out what their reasons were for anything…and in fact, in all their interactions with the remnants of pre-Singularity humanity, they mostly seemed to delight in "poking the anthill". Sending boatloads of recreations of historical and fictitious characters out to that space station just to mess with humanity's minds. And not only could you not ask them why, you wouldn't be able to understand their answer if you did. Hence, one of the things that you hope you learn in the end—the question of "why?"—is forever unanswered.

:::::It would be kind of nice to have some of the characters eventually be able to confront ROB and the virus and ask them what the deal was, but I'm not holding my breath any. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 06:22, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::::I'm very, ''very'' careful not to jump the shark. But at the very least ROB does have some empathy for us microbes. While ROB does do some "resimulation" for TGed folk, it absolutely ''will not'' alter memories because that would cause personality death.

::::::Paradise is more similar too ''[http://www.amazon.com/Darwinia-Novel-Different-Twentieth-Century/dp/0812566629 Darwinia]'' than ''Accelerando''. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Another possibility I just thought about: perhaps this isn't the act of a virus at all. Instead this is the fix to an ancient "Human Virus" that infected the universe, and it's just restoring the original experiment (or whatever). Or if you ''really'' want to throw people off: humanity ''is'' the virus itself, and this is how ROB is solving the problem. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 07:25, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

::Well, to be fair, this is a post-Singularity virus. Nobody ever said it was strictly one-function only. For all we know, it may have a behavioral change programmed into it. "Take Z action until condition A is met, then switch to taking Y action until condition B is met, etc." Or heck, the virus itself may be a sentient/sapient digital life form with free will, fully able to "change its mind" when it wants to. Certainly there is some intelligent agency at work behind the Reality Distortion Field that has already shown the ability to change its own behavior or react to changes in infected people's situations (changing TG furs' "ghosts"—and all extant records—from male to female when they get pregnant, for instance). No reason the virus can't be the same way. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 23:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

:How is that going to work? I'm not sure how humanity can propagate by the "same rules" as other furry types given that it's been established humans and furres are not able to interbreed. Perhaps there might be an inverse of the Sleeping Sickness (a Waking Sickness? :) which causes furries to randomly mutate back into human in addition to the other types of furry form? —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 22:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

::Two thoughts: 1) In 2021 there's a group of humans worldwide who don't Change. They're simply the one species among many. After this point they can breed with furres because the RDF is down anyway. Perhaps they can already do this in Bubbled areas in 2010. 2) Human forms can be a recessional trait that shows up on occasion, between two furres.

::Furry babies already look ''very'' human due to a type of neoteny. Even the herbivores like horses and deer have very stubby muzzles. It looks more like a mask when they're born. Within two years those muzzle stubs grow the "baby animal" proportions, then as normal. They're generally more thinly furred for those first two years also. I keep thinking of puppies. No matter what the breed, they all look ''extremely'' similar when newborn. Same will be true in this setting. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, TG and TF will continue. I'm thinking of something akin to Matthias' character, with random changes. It'll be considered a chronic disease. And the severe forms ''can'' kill you. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Possibly the first occurance of ROB ==

As I mentioned when I introduced him, ROB (Random Omnipotent Being) comes from some other message boards I regularly view/visit. Well someone seems to have found what may have been the first occurrence of ROB. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=53955] Pretty humble beginnings for him if you ask me. :) (His brother, COROB (Crossover Obsessed Random Omnipotent Being) similarly had humble beginnings a month or so later. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=55397] )

== The RDF and extra extremities. ==

Assume here that the RDF is functioning normally and hasn't broken down. Normal humans can't feel the extra extremities of the Changed, like tails and horns - they just feel empty air. But what would another Changed see if they were to look at a normal human attempting to touch a Changed's tail? Would they see the human seemingly passing their hand through the tail of the Changed? [[User:CNash|CNash]] 23:52, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

:I think you've got it wrong. Extra extremities can still be physically felt. The RDF is like a holographic cloak around the changed - it doesn't actually have an effect on their form. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 00:57, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:Shadow is basically correct. Their hand wouldn't pass through empty air. They would meet some weird resistance, but they'd forget about it in a short time. Other Changed would see them touch the tail they can't see. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:: I was going by a line in "Made Alone"; CM's diary entry: ''I say, `Oh yeah, here, grab my tail'. He humors me, but he cannot feel it. I feel him put his hand on it, but he just doesn't feel it.'' - I haven't yet read through all the stories and I'm going chronologically. [[User:CNash|CNash]] 11:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:::If there's one thing I've learned about running a shared setting is to ''not'' demand ironclad continuity. I always allow authors leeway for dramatic purposes, and I don't mind if events don't quite match up. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:19, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

::::Given that is the earliest described Change event, I just assumed that the Veil was stronger back then, and since lessened to the extent of allowing feeling of extremities. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 07:32, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

== Glitch ==

Assertion one: Universe of Paradise setting is mathmatically generated by advanced post-singularity computer. Assertion two: Pre-singularity computers have demonstrated randomized renumbering of internal programing due to outside factors. These renumberings are identified as "glitches," having no basis in programming like bugs and viruses. Assumption: Post singularity computer operates with similar if heavily advanced hardware as pre-singularity computer. Conclusion: Randomized renumberings of programming will occur independently of programming. That is to say, it is not inconceivable that somewhere, a coffee cup on the table is suddenly on the counter. Or that an ant becomes a different species of ant. Or that a gray-eyed man one day has blue eyes. Perhaps these small changes are common and constant. -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 05:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

== Species Expansion ==

We have already seen at least one Elephant man. Is the Furry Virus, as it expands, drawing from a larger gene base? And if so, when would the first nonmammalians arise? Personally, I'm expecting crocs in the near future. Perhaps even 2010... -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 22:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

:The setting is mammals only. Reptiles and birds have very different reproductive biologies. Birds wouldn't be able to fly and cold-blooded creatures can't support a human-like brain and its energy requirements. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== An observation ==

From what I've read, the 'computer simulation' theory is just that- a theory. There's no point blank evidence that this is what's happening within the storyline, and, while I obviously shouldn't just stroll in and rewrite things, but I'd ask the main participators in this storyline to keep this in mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- (note added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC))

:Jon is the creator of the setting and he has final say in these things... He has not ruled on this yet, but I think he will if it becomes a problem. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== If a person doesn't TF again next year... ==

Maybe I missed something. Is it right that if a person doesn't TF again the year after they first change, they stop changing for good? Thinking of the story's setting (computer simulation), if the change is caused by a virus, surely it could keep affcting people? If that doesn't make sense I'll expand, but surely someone knows what I'm talking about. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- signature added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] )

:First it's "bear", not "bare" - homophones are a big stumbling point for a large portion of people, so I try to help people where I can with them :)

: Second... Remember that the whole "post-singularity simulation infected by a virus" schtick is just one possible cause. Jon has said that it could be, but has not pinned it on that. If it really is a virus, then there is a possibility that you could change again 20 years down the line. However... It might be that the multi-change people are somehow an exception - like the virus leaves behind a flag saying "infected" (you'll find this with existing computer viruses, actually) and with multi-changers this flag is missing. Or it could be that the multi-changers are actually being created because of ROB trying to undo the damage done by the virus. And a third possibility is that there is no "virus" and the change is happening according to a plan setup by the people that programmed the simulation - and the multi-changers were randomly selected to be multi-changers.

:In other words... Even if you assume that the postulated "post-singularity simulation" is reality the change could be more than a virus and the limits on multiple changes could be somehow tied directly to the purposes that the simulation was created for... Anyway... I've gone on too long with this. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 19:03, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

::Ugh. I actually thought whilst typing, "that's not right, it should be bare..." blast. So much for trying to write a story if I can't do that kind of simple thing.

::Thanks for your help. I'm trying to make sure I understand the setting as best I can so I can make my story (hopefully a series, but maybe I'm being a bit ambitious) as best as possible. I'm trying to break the mould... Most characters in the Paradise setting seem to be similar. If my first attempt works, I might try one with a different character... Actually, I'd probably do it even if it didn't work :) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Just to be clear, it is a simulation running on a post-Singularity cloud of computronium. And it is a virus doing the dirty work. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:34, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:::: *GACK* - Last time I read the setting page that was still a "speculation" bit :( -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

== Human/Furry detail ==

More prattling, sorry. Bear with me (Heh. Got it right this time.).

The information on smaller details in the differences between humans and furs is irritatingly lax, and I hit a block while writing my own story stressing over an incredibly minor detail. My problem aside, I think that the lack of detail makes it awkward to write... Would two characters that changed into the same species be exactly the same anatomically? I'm not sure. A couple of stories have thrown me in that respect, mainly "A Kind of Paradise", and "Twisting the Veil". I feel like I'm having a bit of a whine actually, and should just get on with it, but right now, I feel like speaking my mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:The anatomical differences between furry species can vary, but not so much that they become incompatible with each other. This is why I didn't want to add birds/reptiles/fish/insects. They're just too different. If they're the same species, they're exactly the same. There is a variance in hair (Some have it, some don't) otherwise everyone is firmly anthro rather than, say, animal ears and tail and nothing else. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:37, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I understand why there are only mammals in the setting, personally I think it's a good choice. I wasn't really thinking about the degrees of how human/animalistic people are, but rather what traits they take on when they change. For example, I know that people have commented on changes in sounds and smells, but not sight, is sight affected? And, as for traits, I know that most species of rodents are incapable of vomiting, fox example. But would the humans be affected by this? Of course, I'm not asking for all the details, that would be ridiculous considering the number of possibilities. I just don't want to write something that doesn't follow the rules of the setting. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Actually... Things like that are, IMHO, why the 'Sleeping Sickness' bracelets have been issued. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Um, yes, those. Maybe I haven't been reading the right stories, but to the best of my knowledge, the bracelets are to let doctors know (provided they already know about the whole thing) what you changed into. Have I missed something? (I feel like I'm asking too many questions. Sorry.) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::::There is a mention in one of a changed that was a species to which aspirin is toxic being killed by a doctor prescribing aspirin... I just don't remember which story that was. The stories about Doctor Clay have most of the good information about how changed can suffer from problems/illnesses incumbent to their species. (IIRC there is a judge that starts suffering from a problem only seen in horses - and he's a horse...) -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::::The idea behind the "Sleeping Sickness" bracelets was pretty much a (bad) attempt by a small group at the CDC to get help to Changed. Hospitals were supposed to report such cases that presented in order for doctors in the know to be summoned. It was created essentally with the idea that it wasn't really a workable solution, but the best that could be come up with. The factoid that came up about toxic medications was based on a factoid I heard many years ago, that penicillian has a singular toxicity for rodents. As such, as drug testing is set up today, its unlikely it would ever be approved. The idea is that there is enough transformation that people might pick up certiain toxic reactions to things that they didn't realize. I'm not sure anyone has really gone into depth with this, but I'd think you could infer that some canines would have violent reactions to chocolate, for example. Like all things, there would be some variability, just like some dogs can seem to eat chocolate fine while others it might kill. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 23:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

== Extreame ROB ==

I had an odd thought last night about the implications of what ROB does with respect to rewriting documentation of peoples pasts. ROB has been known to change paperwork, pictures and even apparent histories of people. (Didn't someone in After Hours discover they were supposed to have dated people earlier as the opposite gender?) That got me to thinking about how far this might all go. Assuming that ROB doesn't actually start to mess with memories, will it start to alter older records? Pictures from earlier than the first Change, even for subjects that died before it all started? Paintings? And would they be consistent? Would every painting done of George Washington find the same form? And to take it a few steps further, what about statues? This could get messy... which isn't always a bad thing from a story perspective. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 15:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:I can see that happening more as a result of the furry virus, since that kind of extreme "history editing" feels more malevolent to me than something ROB would do. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 20:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Interesting though that would be, it's an important plot mechanic for there to still be remnants of the human world - Once the entire human race has transformed, they need to still be aware that this has happened - Rewriting history would remove this and it would be as if nothing happened... if you see what I mean? -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

::It would make sense for things to get messy if it were the virus causing it. Sloppy, half rewritten pasts, people not sure of what really happened and what didn't, more like a temporal infection than a careful rewriting. That kind of scare could lead the reader to be a bit more sympathetic about ROB trying to stop the virus's progression. It would also make a great opportunity to go all Serial Experiments Lain on a story and leave people wondering wtf -- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:10, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Furry Sizes ==

What size are furries? It's pretty clear that bears are big and mice are small, and it mostly makes sense to have the same thing (but not as extreme) for anthroid furries, but there are some other size differences I can't so easily imagine. Some guidelines might be helpful. Ferrets in particular, ferret males are often twice as big as ferret females, as is the case of many mustelids, but at the same time both of them are smaller than cats. If I make a female ferret larger than a rat, and a male ferret smaller than a cat, that's starting to leave not so much room to spare. If I had to finagle a scale I'd say

* mice - 1.2 meters (or less!)
* rats - 1.3 meters
* female ferrets, squirrels, minks, etc - 1.4 meters
* male ferrets, ringtails, mongooses - 1.6 meters
* female cats - 1.7 meters
* male cats, skunks, raccoons - 1.8 meters uh...
* big cats and wolves - 1.9-2.0
* big stuff like bears - all the way to 2.2.

But then again it might also be fun to have a 2 metres tall cavy. GEORGE LOVES YOU COME GIVE GEORGE A BIG HUG.

Maybe illustrating size differences between sexes is a bit too piccaunish. >.<
-- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:04, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

:I should personally think that irrelevant. While there's clearly going to be some destinction between heights and races, I think guidelines are unnesecary. People come in all shapes and sizes, this individuallity should be maintained. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

One little detail though, (and it doesn't really apply to me but may for others), removing hippo's, rhino's and elephants from the pool seems to be a bit speciest, considering moose are allowed. In looking at the Wiki, it seems that hippos (1.5meters) and rhinos (2.0 meters) are actually generally smaller or the same size as the largest moose (2.1 metres) species. Elephants seem to average about a meter or two larger than the moose.

Perhaps a better restriction would be to allow any land mammal (and any sea mammal that is between the sizes of the minimum land mammal size and the maximum land mammal size), but set minimum and maximum furre sizes; something like a min of 1.2 metres or 4ft to a max of 2.0 metres or 7ft.

Anyways, I'll try and keep an eye on things and see if I can culture this idea I've got further. - 19:50, 10 January 2008 [[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]

== Human Survival ==

Since the US government, and governments of the world, would have obviously known about the furry changes for many years as government officials became Changed, they logically would have set up Projects (like the Manhattan Project) to study the reasons and try and find a solution. It is obvious to them that the end of humanity will come and this should have all contries of the world enganged in studying the scientific causes of the RDF and ways to affect it. Many of the scientists themselves who get changed would surely want to study the effect. Any physics professor changed would jump at the chance to study it and get the next Nobel prize for figuring it out. It does defy natural laws, therefore the new laws it does follow can be studied. If there is some master computer responsible for the universe, such as in Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, then this it might be possible for a "super computer" build by the UN or whoever to communicate with the ROB virus program or even the Master computer itself, and change it, such as the computer "Obie" in the Well World books. Personally, I favor a different approach. In 1987 a super computer someplace near Chicago DID develop self awareness, predicted that mankind was going to overpopulate and destroy the planet, and it decided to "FIX" things by connecting with the main universal computer at the center of the universe on a night when the least number of galaxies are in the way, which happens to be Aug 17. The governments at some point would find out that the birth rate is on a serious decline even though it is possible for furries to have babies, it is not as common as humans due to all the different genetics and species involved. Mating a horse furry with a rabbit furry is much less likly to produce offspring, for example, that mating a horse furry with another horse furry, so regardless of who was married to who when they are human, statistically the couple won't be able to have children after both change, unless they are the same. Some story about finding the ROB computer near Chicago before 2020 should be a possibility and reasoning with it might be a good solution.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:37, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:The thing is, there is no ROB computer in our world, if I'm understanding what you're saying here. It isn't like Obie or the Well World where it's something inside the Universe itself that's causing the Change. This setting--basically our world--exists as a Planck-level simulation space inside a post-Singularity posthuman computer. There are two viruses (also posthuman, slightly more advanced) responsible for the Change: A relatively controllable TG virus, and the much newer "furry virus" that ROB can't contain with "history editing".
Keep in mind that governments didn't really know this was even happening until the early 2000s.
Otherwise, the RDF/Change as a source of study for physicists is a good angle.
-- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:57, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::I just hate to plug but if you want an example of how goverments might screw up the change read my story [[User:Fibio|Cascade Failure]]
-- [[User:Fibio|Fibio]] 20:42, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::Of course, in a way it's kind of pointless even to know about it, since I can't really foresee any way that it could ever become a plot point within the story itself. I can't really see humanity figuring out how to "hack" its way out.
It doesn't really make that much of a difference, from an in-universe standpoint, to assume that it's all being done by "magic". (Any sufficiently advanced technology…) —- [[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 21:23, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Pretty much [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityWarper] all around. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thanks folks for all the replies to my post! People to talk to! OK, first JonBuck, I am not really sure I understand all the Plank-level simulation space inside a post-singularity posthuman supercomputer stuff (I did try to look up the story Accelerando but I just found a book cover) but I interpret this to mean: Plank-Level = really really small; simulation space = not real or temporary space in computer memory; post-singularity = after a black hole evaporates in about a few trillion years; post human = mankind extinct; supercomputer = something like the Cosmic AC in [http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html] ?

However, my ignorance aside, regardless of what the supercomputer is, or what we are, it would in effect be God. Now ROB could represent the devil, or if God has gone crazy, the savior. ROB either was created by the supercomputer "GOD" on purpose or by accident, it was created by a simulation universe, either our own, a past one, or another running concurrently, to infect God, or it was created by God's creators as some part of the God computer for some purpose and function, and if that is the case then either it is carrying out its intended program or it has malfunctioned. I think that is a complete list of all possible options, so if I have missed one then please let me know.

You stated, "It comes from outside the post-Singularity brain, and is slightly more advanced than "ours". What's happening is this bit of malicious code (sentient, no less, but on a level far beyond our ability to comprehend it) is messing up the simulated world we reside in. Why? I dunno. One of those inscrutable things." This sentient "virus" needs to have come from one of the posibilities above, and I suppose it is up to you to decide which, but since "you dunno", then I will try to help.

I guess the first question is "Why did God create the universe?" which translated means "Why is the supercomputer running the simulation?" Is the goal good or evil? Perhaps the supercomputer was programed to do so for an evil purpose by its creators, and ROB is sort of like its concience it has developed and wants to mess up the experiment before it can produce evil results. I would favor ROB being good, instead of evil, perhaps trying to produce a different result that will end up doing good than if the simulation ran to completion on its present course. However, that being said, if ROB is a computer virus, and based on logic and programable, and is expending energy to maintain the RDF, scientists studying that might find a way to..either communicate with it, grab its attention, or annoy it. I believe that enabeling some communication with it, even though we won't understand it completly, would produce some interesting stories.

Fibeo, I had previously read your story and just re-read it. By the way it is fine to plug :) When I read it the first time I thought that it really did not fit in with the rest of the stories since it involved time travel. In the context of a simulation, that would mean more than one running at one time, all on different timelines, and being able to hop between them. Maybe ROB is trans-simulation and could have helped this, but I really don't see how anyone in a simulation could get the supercomputer running it to re-set it to a prior time point and insert someone from a future point. It was an interesting story however and I did enjoy reading it.

Robotech, "magic" is a nice simple explanation to explain the unexplainable, but mankind strives for answers, it seeks to understand, and predict and ultimately control those things it can not immediately explain. Faced with an unexplainable force that is threatening mankind itself with extintion, mankind will use all resourses at its disposal, spare no espence, bring the greatest scientific minds, changed and unchanged to work on studying and solving the problem. It may be futile, we may never be able to win against the Gods, but it is the nature of mankind to TRY! You mentioned it is unlikly manking could "hack" its way out. That would be one possibility, since mathematics would likly be the same for both us and the supercomputer and ROB which are both based on mathmatics and logic. however, there are possibities for stories regarding that attempt..and could be very interesting. If I was a writer, I might even try writing one, but who knows...I might anyways.

Back to JonBuck. The link was to an article about people thinking something and it becoming real. Much too powerful, sort of like...writers!
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:Okay. I'm going to clarify some concepts here.
:The Singularity I'm referring to is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity Technological_singularity] . Nothing to do with gravity. A [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman further entry on posthumanism] , and its close relation, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanist Transhumanist]. By Planck-level I mean, basically, the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units smallest length in the universe] . Everything down to those levels is "simulated".
:Moving on, the kind of questions you bring up I actually don't want to deal with. The reason I'm using the ROB acronym in the first place is to avoid overtly religious connotations. I realize that they're very important, but it's otherwise such a contentious issue in the real world. I really don't want to see any "communicating with ROB" stories.
:Post-Singularity intelligences are by nature inscrutable (I've seen Stross refer to them as "Weakly Godlike Entities" in his books). At this point ROB has switched to a "salvage mode" by making direct changes to the "simulation" in the form of alleviating energy crises (a huge concern of mine at the time I wrote most of my stories in this setting) and climate change.
:''Accelerando'' is actually [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerando_%28book%29 available for free].
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:27, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks for the reply Jonbuck, the links were very helpful and I have a clearer idea what you are talking about now. It is going to take me a while to read all the stories.
::I used religious words to describe ideas simply that are familiar but did not mean in any way to be controversial.
::I will try over the next few weeks to put together a short story within your constraints, and if it exceeds your limits we can just change it. I plan to make one assumption, and that is that a simulation is defined by rules set for it that need to be obeyed for it to continue running. ROB changing the speed of light in the simulation for example would be such a fundamental change in everything that it would break the entire simulation, i.e. crash the program. ROB can only work within the rules set for the simulation, agreed?
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:12, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :) At this point the simulation is being salvaged to prevent social chaos, death, and extinction of the people inside it.
:::There's a novel out that has some very similar ideas and influenced a lot of how I set up this setting: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_%28novel%29 ''Darwinia'' by Robert Wilson] .
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:22, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply JonBuck, I can work with that, and will post something in a few weeks for your feedback.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

== About ('''2004''') '''''Victory Starts Here''''' ==

OK, JonBuck, I lied and posted the story in just 2 days. I could not stop thinking about it. I got as far as I could. Could you please read it and then tell me the results of each of the experiments before I can continue in the next one? Thanks!
[[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:17, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

:After the "server crash" of 2011; the original story [[User:Enphilistor|Victory Starts Here]] (by [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] ) is now avalaible (in a very crude, text only format) in the Talk Page of it´s creator: [[User_talk:Enphilistor| Victory Starts Here]]
: -- [[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think I will just have to decide for myself how the experiments turn out and just hope you approve. One of my goals in the stories I plan to write is to explain "scientifically" all the effects you have going on here are consistent with all universal laws. If you are running a program, you can't change the code of the program while it is running. You can change the code but only by stoping the program from running and recompiling it. So anything ROB is doing has to be done inside the simulation following the rules of the simulation (under the premise of the stories I plan to write). It is really not going to be easy for the scientists(i.e. me) to explain the changes to the past records, or why they start off only being change a few years back, then all the way back to the day someone was born, and undoing history such as marriages. And remember, I can't have ROB using "magic", ROB is in the simulation and has to be constrained to its rules. Because of this constraint, ROB needs a "body" someplace and a supply of "energy" from somewhere, to direct and power all these changes. I hope you enjoy my next story, that should be entiteld something like "Victory Continues", where Paul has to cope with being a female pig, and the scientists recieve some confusing results on the origin of the signals they record.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 22:27, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

:Not really. If ROB is outside of the simulation, there's nothing to stop it from pausing the simulation and reworking the fabric of it as necessary. It's like pausing the Sims and placing new walls or whatever. As far as the Sim-people are concerned, those walls might as well as have always been there, even if we (the players) know better. ROB is not inside the simulation, ROB is the player(s) outside the simulation. In no sense does ROB need to obey any rules within the simulation, nor does it need act within the laws of the simulation to change the simulation. By definition anything ROB does is going to be 'magic' because turning people into furries, or editing history, isn't something that's allowed within physical laws. Most of the transformations directly violate the law of the conservation of mass and energy, for example.
:I don't mean to rain on your parade, and I'm clearly not Mr Buck (who might disagree with my explanation), but it seems like you're not quite getting the setting, as I understand it. Hope that helps.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 07:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

::Got it in one, Honeymane. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:30, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

JonBuck said, Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :)

In addition, since ROB hates paradoxes, and will go to such extremes as making sure each child will have both a biological father and a mother and never 2 fathers or 2 mothers, following the rule of conservation in energy and mass is necessary to avoid such paradoxes on an even more fundamental level and in any case easily achieved. If you read my story, that exact experiment has been set up to measure this. Since it is so easy to maintain mass and energy balance, which you will see in the next story, there is no reason to violate this universal law. Imagine the effect on the simulation if you try to break this rule either while it is running or "pausing" it. A calculation is in the process of being made on an object between it and every other object in the universe. In the middle of the calculation a zero is entered (E = mC^2, so if you are going to, C is either zero, which crashes the program and is not what JonBuck said, or as m goes to zero, then c goes to infinity which also changes the velocity of light constant which JobBuck said would not happen). Some calculations have already been performed and other calculations in progress have end up with a divisor of zero. You crash the program when you restart it, as the zero divisor propagates in all the calculations throughout the universe.

In any case, mankind will try and study these effects, and my stories will be mostly concerned with these attempts. However, when I say all laws have to be obeyed, that does not mean all laws that humans know about, it can include new ones. It may be that the results of the experiments will lead them to conclude that something is breaking the laws of the universe because they don't understand them all, but ROB will know what it is doing. I imagine it like this. The main computer can't use its antiviral programming to stop ROB as long as ROB is hiding in the simulation and following the rules in the simulation, but if ROB breaks the rules, and crashes it, he becomes exposed with no place to hide and gets zaped. You will see that in the next story, that ROB is still just as powerful to the same "magic" as it can is now, and still be consistent with all stories that have happened, and the setting JonBuck has set up. JonBuck has not really explained the interaction between the main computer and the virus or any protections or why they are not working. In any case, it doesn't matter what i think, since the stories I plan don't mention this at all, they will be consistent with either ROB being inside or outside the simulation, only what the beings in the simulation measure is in the stories. Just trust me, the story will be interesting and fun, and if JonBuck says no to some result after he reads it, I will change it. Fair?
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 01:54, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I haven't had time to read your story yet. Frankly, reading your comments here I'm getting a little antsy over what exactly the impact it would have on the overall setting. I think you're over-analyzing the setting, frankly. You're asking questions about it that I really can't answer.
:Also, use colons in front of your paragraphs to make them indent and create a "nested" topic. And put a blank line between paragraphs. Thanks.
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:21, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

::For JonBuck I had intentionally not been using indents so that my comments would be totally left justified and everyone the replies for everyone else indented, make it easier in my view to keep things organized. But if you prefer indents, I am easy.
::I had assumed that you had already read the story. It would be good for me to get some feedback on that since none of the things we discuss here are really in it, but may impact it.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think you're confusing the 'players' here. First, there's the computer that all the "real" characters (ie the characters in the story) exist in. ROB 1 is likely someone running the computer, perhaps for anthropological reason, perhaps because they're bored. ROB 2 is unrelated to ROB 1, but for one reason or another, has managed to add a virus program to ROB 1's simulation, causing problems. There are at least 2 viruses that JonBuck has discussed; one that changes gender, and one that changes people into furries, we could, however, imagine that there may have been other viruses in the past, that eventually ROB 1 removed. For example, Atlantis might have been real, and so might have the Greek/etc gods. Atlantians were gifted technology beyond what they should have, and ROB 1 deleted the island to save the program, ROB might have also deleted the Gods, for whatever reason, etc. I'm just speculating here. Now, either ROB can't remove the virus like it did the other problems, or it realized that altering reality was screwing with the program's purpose (such as anthropological study) So rather than delete the TG or TF viruses, ROB 1 created a program to try and mitigate the virus's effects. This program is what causes the history editing (etc).
:Both these viruses exist within the programing of the Computer, but not on a level that would appear to anyone in the program. It's important to remember that time doesn't necessarily pass like it does within the computer; the virus could get it's work done in a nanosecond. Everything else, the sickness, the slow change, all these might be part of the mitigation program's efforts to prevent anyone from changing in public, and to change so suddenly they lose their minds, nor without warning. But there's no reason to think that this computer virus is operating through something like an actual virus, or that the changes are visible on a cell level before the change occurs, even in those showing the signs of the change.
:But again, this is just me talking, not Buck. But I do strongly suggest you hold off writing too much more until Jon has a chance to review your story, or else you might very well find yourself writing something based on ideas that JonBuck doesn't like/want in his setting.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: For Honeymane It is really difficult to hit a moving target. I have not seen in any of the stories and discussions or JonBuck's guidlines about prior activity of ROB. As for ROB1, ROB2, ....ROBN, only one master computer has been mentioned and only one ROB virus. In my understanding, the main comupter has created a SIMULATION. The main computer is infected with a much smaller and more limited "few lines of code" virus, that the beings on one planet in the SIMULATION call the random omnipotent being, but this being is only omnipotent comparted to us, not compared to the main computer. I do not see ROB having the same power to shut down the simulation, pause it, change the rules in it or perform any of the jobs the main computer does.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I see ROB as much more limited. It needs to avoid detection of the antiviral programs, it can't attract their attention, it needs to work by stealth, it is a virus after all, it can't do things that say, "here I am!". And this all follows from things JonBuck has indicated. If he wants to say ROB = main computer in all powers, then well, fine, but he has not done so. He has not defined the motives of ROB or the main computer. when asked, he has said, " I dunno". Given that void, since I need to write in that setting, I find myself creating possible motives for them in my mind.
:It makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, but it helps me limiting ROB to viral powers and behaviors, not mainfraim abilities. A virus has 2 main goals, to keep itself alive and to reproduce itself. ROB may or may not have the second goal, but it will have the first. While doing this in any enviornment, it may cause side effects. Imagine ROB as a biological virus, and a living cell as the simulation that is growing inside a body that is the mainframe. At one time ROB was outside the cell, in the body (mainframe) where lots of antibodies (antiviral programs) were hunting for it. By entering the cell, it is now hidden from the body's defenses. However, if the cell gets sick or dies(ROB crashes the cell simulation) before ROB has either left the cell or reached a state of reproduction where that is desireable, then the body will just devower the cell and grow a new one. So in my scenario, perhaps ROB realized that the purpose of the simulation was about to be achieved, and since ROB is not ready to reproduce, it is messing with the simulation, hyjacking it as a virus hyjacks the DNA of a Cell, to keep the simulation alive longer than it would otherwise, so that it won't reach the conditions for termination, until it can make other copies of itself to infect other simulations. Who knows, maybe with enough copies of itself it can take over the mainfraim. Alternatively, its work at transforming mankind may be the way it is going about reproducing. Alternatively, ROB might have realized the simulation was about to produce a failed reslut which would have terminated the simulation and it is acting to keep itself alive by preventing failure conditions.
:In any case it makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, JonBuck had declined to actually be clear on this, and it really does not matter. The beings in the simulations don't know this, and it is difficult to think of any way they could ever find out. Well actually I could, because I am like that. One way would be if ROB tells them, and since Jonbuck said no comunication with ROB, that won't happen. Another if the mainfram sends a COR (Correcting Omnipotent Being) into the simulation (...and God sent his only begotten son...that type of idea) and told people.
:The second story is half done, and I plan to continue writing it since I have it all layed out in my mind. Hopefully Jonbuck will read the first story and give some feedback before I finish, but I believe he will approve of both stories in any case. And if not, I will change them.
: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: *puts on peacemaker and teacher hats*
:: From what I can tell you're looking for an explicit statement of something that has been implicit in the setting design since the start...
:: Where the Solar System once sat is now a cloud of what you could call "Computronium". Inside this computer are many, many simulations. Whether these simulations are the creation of a separate physical being or the uploaded minds of people is a moot point - we'll never see the "real world". (btw, ROB could actually be an AI that was once a person...)
:: The stories all take place inside one of these simulations that has picked up a couple of viruses somewhere. One of them has been around since at least the late 70's (IIRC, this is mentioned in one of Jon's stories) and the other didn't appear until 1987. The one that showed up in 1987 - the "furry virus" - is newer and initially ROB had tried to contain it using the "Perception Filter". When it somewhat "merged" with the TG virus the simulation got a lot more unstable and ROB had to start including things in its "containment" to help combat that instability. That is the "history revision" stuff. It also is the cause of the changes to married couples with children - because it was seeing potential causes of instability (no more mother/father) and fixing it as it could.
:: There is no "ROB" actually in the simulation - think about the game "The SIMS"... In that game you are the ROB - the creator and maintainer of the simulation. And you can "Pause" the simulation, make changes and restart it. In this case at least the entirety of the solar system is part of the simulation and every time ROB has to make a change it "pauses" the simulation, makes the changes and then hits the "normal speed" button. Now... there might be some people in the world that are actually from outside the sim, but they'd never make themselves known - and they could, probably, act like the ROB and remove any evidence of themselves (outside of memories) from the sim.
:: -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 04:21, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

::: I think a lot of the problems here is a misunderstanding of the source material I'm drawing inspiration for this setting from. Honeymane and ShadowWolf have both described things well. (Though I'm going to bump the TG virus back a few more centuries). A few points.
:::: * ROB exists outside the simulation. Other ROBs are not important. The Virus is not a ROB. However, ROB isn't really a physical being either, as SW describes.
:::: * The Virus originates outside the simulation. Who and what originally made it is a moot point.
:::: * The intent of said "virus" (the term only fits loosely) is to throw a monkeywrench into ROB's simulation of our universe. The reason why it hasn't been contained is that it was created by a slightly more advanced post-Singularity Mind than ROB. Since ROB can't contain it, ROB can only mitigate.
:::: * Essentially, the two virii are intended to cause social chaos via random transformations. It doesn't exist to propagate itself to other simulations. In the first case, a "quarantine" of sorts was created via modifying the present records of those TGed to reflect their new gender. If it was true history editing neither the person transformed nor the people who knew them would remember what they'd been. What ROB is changing are just the present physical objects.
:::Honestly, go read Part 2 of Accelerando. It was originally started as short stories, so you can pick it up there. That's where a lot of the concepts for Paradise started.
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 05:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, it seems terminology is messing me up. I was under the apparently mistaken belief that ROB was the virus, and the Mainfraim running the simulation(s). I believed this because the virus was random and chainging someone to a furry is sort of mildy omnipotent. Yes, I fully agree that if ROB = Mainfraim(or AI who might have once been human) then ROB must definatly outside the simulation. My comments were consering only the virus(es) that are causing the transgender/furry transformations.
Let me call the form that can do either one or the other or both, the Random Omnipotent Virus, ROV for short so there will be no misunderstandings. I can see ROB stoping the simulation and making corections, eliminating divisions by zero and all that. However, ROV should not have those abilities, being just a lowly virus, compared to ROB. The stories I wish to write constrain ROV to using the same old laws that existed in 1987, and prior to that if there was the TG virus. The universe we live in now was supposed to be identical to that one until 1987, I would like that ROV should be handicaped a little by the rules ROB created for the simulation. A simulation is to test SOMETHING, and if you start changing the rules (ie laws of nature) your results are just not going to simulate the conditions you wanted to in the real world, where you don't have the power to change the laws of nature.
The experiments the humans are setting up in my first story will indicate only the effects being caused by ROV. If ROV is outside or inside the simulation does not really matter, but if ROV can behave just like ROB, then that study is just not going to produce anything interesting either scientifically, or plot wise. Such violations of the laws of nature might just scream at them "There really must be a god involved." and we never want them to know or suspect ROB or the true nature of ROV. To have a scientific study, I would like ROV to follow the laws of the universe, for any of the reasons described here and in prior posts. I will work out some reasons that make sense to the humans for all things happening regarding the transformations, to keep them studying and not just throw up their hands in frustration, if that is ok.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]]

== Count of Changed in 1997 ==

Hello! I'm new here, but I really like this setting and read probably most of the stories. I even made my own table in Excel to draw the changing numbers as a graphic (Also for my hometown to get a grip on the numbers). And there I noticed something:

Maybe I just missed a story or paragraph where it is explained, but shouldn't there be 1024 Changed in 1997 instead of 1028? Where do the additional 4 Furries come from? I know this is just minor, but the error is kept through the following years till the end and all the numbers are wrong (It doesn't however change the fact that 2020 is the last year).

It's not so important, but it's been bugging me since I noticed it. -- [[User:TigeR|TigeR]] 15:53, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:Check out the [[Paradise (Setting)]] page. It has all the numbers. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

:: Jon, you do have a +4 in 1997 over a strict doubling. This is what he was pointing out and asking questions about. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: And fixed! -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:37, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: This error went a heck of a lot deeper and its possible that the skew-factor introduced in 1997 effected the percentages as time went into the future - however... I fixed this by hand and then verified the figures against a program that output every power of two from zero to the 33rd. As it stands this table now has correct figures for the furry population and one can only assume that the historical figures for population are correct and the projection fits the curve correctly. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:55, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Paradise:The Soundtrack ==

Not sure about anyone else, but I find music to be a major inspiration.. Well of course it

is... the song "Strangers by Yoko Kanno" got this series off the ground did it not?

So I decided to put together a soundtrack, it's not available for download because I own

none of these songs... But if you happen to have them, you can arrange them in your iPod

Playlist, if you want.. I mean I'm not forcing ya, it's just a possibility.

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0b58V573l8 '''Yoko Kanno''' - Strangers -_Wolf's Rain - Strangers by Sori Smile-_ ] <- { The begining of ALL of this... }

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IroHea5FOj8 '''Bliss 66''' - Not Quite Paradise ] <- {''This song pretty much hits the entire series on the head... (It's from the ending of [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb2aMjprmdo Titan A.E.], damn good movie, do see it sometime)''}

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqds0B_meys '''Three Days Grace''' - Animal I Have Become]

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-scESgTnoUM '''Goo Goo Dolls''' - Iris]

: '''Mighty Bosstones''' - Impression That I Get

: '''Lee Brotherton''' - Dream Of An Asbolution

: '''Cash Cash''' - Speak With Your Heart

: '''Eminem''' - Beautiful

: '''Shania Twain''' - Man I Feel Like A Woman

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE9zpOyNDoA '''Chip Tha Ripper''' - SLAB Freestyle -_What Are You Inside? - Furries In A Blender_- ] <- { ''Joke YouTube Entry'' }

: '''Tears For Fears''' - Everybody Wants To Rule The World

: '''Foo Fighters''' - The Pretender

and finally:

: '''John Mayer''' - Waiting On The World To Change

I think I forgot some, but yeah, definitely these. - [[User:Hawl|Hawl]] (1/10/11, 1:55 PM)

: The new ''metadata format'' for the songlist is: %'''Artist'''% - %Songtitle% -_%YTtitle%-_ <- {%''comment''%}

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8IujL8_sMI '''Stanfour''' - For All Lovers] <- { ''My Favorite ; "...For all the Changeds, and Believers..."'' }

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4w3lPYoBX8 '''Stanfour''' - Everything Has Changed]

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjlM_RnsVE '''Skillet''' - Monster]

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-makfpBrSQ '''Three Days Grace''' - Never too late]

: -- [[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:50, 03 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Paradise (Setting)

2011-02-04T00:54:30Z

Argamis: New Theory on the Mecanics of HOW the Change 'spreads'

It's an interesting setting, what I've read so far, and I've got an idea or two percolating that may or may not come to fruition. A seed is trying to sprout for an idea starting in '05 and going forward. - [[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 19:50, 10 January 2008

---

After the 2011 crash, the setting lost the most newer storys and the enrichment data inside their related Talk_Pages.
Maybe we can get back these with this -> [http://www.archive.org/web/web.php Internet Wayback Machine] in the far-far future (when the data gets very very old, its then available there).

If the "Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like an array that canalize the flow of "hot ideas" through it´s "insulated tube-rules" (preventing the "leaking and cooling" of the new storys in their necesary "plot-curves" and "bottlenecks-dramas"). . .
Then the "Talk:Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like the Virtual Remote Control Panel for that powergrid. When a new "hot idea" pop up in the wrong place or it´s going the wrong direction, a colision alarm sound here!.
The "already resolved discussions" divert automatically the issue, and for the real original new ones, at last offer a series of nearby "exhaust valves" designed for the protection of the "global setting" system.
:--[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 21:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Theory on how the Change 'spreads' ==

Been thinking about how it might spread, such that we have a higher proportion of Changed in NA, but not leaving the rest of the world out, and I think I know how.

The 'computer virus' that Changes people, uses the RDF to spread itself. Our 'program's' own protection method is also spreading the damages.

Basically, I am guessing that if the RDF needs to kick in on you, then you are passively 'infected'.

Then, when August 17th comes around, the Virus triggers itself, but it for whatever reason can only copy itself for every previously Changed person. (The Doubling effect), and it can only affect people that have been passively infected, ie people who have had the RDF kick in on them.

The goal of the virus is to spread as far as it can, so it takes the number of new Changed it can, and spreads it more or less evenly across the available (RDF-affected) population.

So the first Changed is in Chicago (I think). Through the year until the next Change, she will encounter thousands of people, even in passing, which triggers the RDF on them and passively infects them.

Come August, 1988, the next Changed will be picked randomly from those thousands of people, and now we'll have 2 people spreading the RDF virus. 1989, a big chunk of Chicago has probably had the RDF trigger at least once, not to mention some tourists and other visitors to the city.

In 89, we get 2 more Changed, and one of them could possibly be in a different random city, just because he'd been to Chicago in the past 2 years and unknowingly seen a Changed, and a new nest of RDF-field affected people starts up.

European and Asian and Oceanic outbreaks could happen in years to come as the number of tourists and business people from those reasons travel into North America and begin to be fielded and infected themselves.

The 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City probably 'infected' most of the people who were around and watching, meaning that by then (if not before) pretty much anyone has a chance to be Changed.

It also means that truly isolated areas of the world (South Pacific islands, isolated Amazonian tribes, etc) could potentially be unchanged after the 2020 deadline; but any encounter at all with a Changed would likely Change them immediately and spread like wildfire through the village)

And while the RDF may 'fail' at some point, it'll probably still be around in a less effective form, trying to maintain some stability and spreading the Change. --[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]
:I'll give that some thought. It's somewhat similar to something I already had in mind. Perhaps those who have the RDF fail completely will be much more likely to change the next year, or they might even change out-of-phase. In any case, once they figure out that it's like a communicable disease, and everyone is already 'infected', the remaining humans will go nuts. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 12:35, 27 January 2008 (EST)

The spread and the exact reason for the "double" number each year, is as if the virus had only one chance per year to run it´s replication part code. (And someone sugest the use of "infected flags" for the furry virus to later identify the already changed).

The fractal-but-random nature of the spread means the Virus need the furrys alive for it´s reproduction, but not proximity at all (probably because the "computronium cloud" it´s an 11-dimension construct); so when the change secuence start, it´s because a "superior computational request" (diferent from the virus itself) has the need to do something to all the humans in the world, but not something that change all of them in a masive, blind generic "*.*" way.

If the detection of a emergent post-human-like inteligence is the reason of the "simulation", then it´s logical for the "server" to execute some "checking subrutine" regulary (once per year) on the most inteligent elements; stoping the propagation of uber-mutated-code things that come from outside the simulation.
If the server detects something "wrong" in a human, then It will try to correct any mistakes wihout killing him/her. --[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 00:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I had my theory of how it works the spread:
Every time one furry see/hear another furry (under the efect of the RDF) the Virus of both exchange <IP-person> links of eachother and save this in the "already changed" Virus Flag.
When a non-infected human see/hear a furry, the Virus try to do some "minor modifications" on the human through the RDF, and then set a "infected" Virus flag on his/her data.

When the server "anual check" detect a human with an "infected" Virus flag, thinks that some very critical "code" is missing in that human, and found a message like: "there is a copy of the same code here: <IP-(furry)person>" (this message and the "missing part" of the code, were the "minor modifications" made by the RDF-Interactive-Section of the Furry Virus).
{The TG Virus do not had this "tricky message" in it´s code, and has to wait the ocurrence of an eventual "copy&paste" for his activation/reproduction (this explain the few hundred human affected for this in thousands of years...), then the relationship between the TG Virus and the Furry Virus is a parasite one (or maybe mutualism, we do not know for sure).}

The server now go to the IP-furry_person and check him/her (see more below), then copy the complete code of the Virus and paste-it in the middle of the code of the "infected" human (because has more elevated access privileges, the "server" can write directly on the most "critical" and "active" part of the code of the infected human, the Virus itself can´t do that); then his/her body it´s "corrected" with the furry data "carried" by the living furry that infected his/her previusly.
The Server set a "xxxx check: DONE" server flag in the new furry (xxxx is the year).
The Virus check the flags, change the "infected" to "already changed" on the newbie furry, and modify his <IP_person> to a higher number (this way every year the server check only the humans and the "infected" humans first).

When the server check a furry, (without the "xxxx check: DONE" of that year) see the "already changed" flag like a "minor" error code, then try to restore his/her original (human) form; but the Virus uses the list of <IP-furry> links, and copy&paste the same Virus code again and again from multiple sources... {this is only posible between furry<->furry , the read&write its not restricted between active "brother" Viruses. In fact some "real virus" an P2P users works like this ^_^)
The server left the furry "minor" code intact, but set "xxxx check: FAIL" flag on him/her and go for the next...
Every time one infected human goes furry, the "check" on the previus furry Virus "carrier" blocks any posibility of ANOTHER human infected (by the same "carrier") goes to furry that year.

This way, every year the contact between every group of furries<->humans AND furries<->furries it´s equal in importance (for the expansion of the Virus) as it was the previusly year, the IP-furry-links only can double the efective total number of furry if already exist some conection between all of they (pasive in great citys, active search&contact in more remote regions). --[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 00:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

== Change and disabilities? ==

I keep forgetting to bring this up on IRC, but how do people (as in writers and other interested people in this setting) think disabilities would be affected by the change? Both Mental and Physical?

Would a paraplegic who lost his legs in an accident regrow them if he changed? Would he regain the use of them if they weren't lost but just disabled? (back injury)? What about false teeth, deafness, blindness, etc?

What if the cause was not from a physical accident, but was viral or bacterial in nature? Some disease struck them blind? Would they stay blind?

And what if the disabilities were genetic? Would those genetic flaws still show in the new form?

Finally, what about mental disabilities? Could the Change 'cure' Alzheimer's? Would it affect someone who is literally a brain dead vegetable on life support?

If it does have curative properties, I suspect we'll start seeing more and more miracle cures (assuming they can survive the flu) in the years to come. Which may imply that there'll be a push in the early to mid 2010's to just keep someone alive as long as possible in the home they Change and are cured/fixed.

Thoughts?

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 11:00, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:I think there are good arguments to be made for some healing properties of the Change, but I wouldn't make it go all out. A person missing a limb should still be missing a limb after the change (I have in mind a scene with a one-armed pianist who goes monkey and starts playing with his feet).

:When it comes to things like Alzheimer's, that is a much more difficult choice. I don't see mental retardation being suddenly healed by the Change, as that is a birth defect (and such things happen in animals too). But progressive diseases may backtrack, even if the conditions begin to return over time. That could make an even more painful story, somebody suffering from Alzheimer's, who Changes and now recognizes all his family again. But after a year or so everything starts to slip away again...

:Anyway, the whole keeping folks alive and hoping for a Change could make a good dynamic too. I just think there's a lot fo possibilities to consider before we make a decision on this. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:24, 4 February 2008 (EST)
::I'm inclined to do as Matthias suggests. It's more or less what I had in mind. However, one of the things that the Change does is it puts everyone in very good health. Even being a 300 pound female bear, CM is in very good shape. It will cure some ailments, and put chronic diseases into remission. Those developments will confuse the medical community enough without regrowing limbs or curing Down's Syndrome. But if you've read the latest Tall Tales, ROB is being forced to act more openly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 15:40, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:What happens to medical devices like heart pacemakers or hip replacements that were implanted in people before they changed? --[[User:JeniSkunk|Jenifur Charne]] 20:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::That's basically an open-ended question. I'm going to leave the answer to that one unsaid because I think it'd be a good Plot Point in a story. A furry episode of ''House'' maybe? --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::Late into the discussion, but better late than never. : ) Anyway, what about things like fillings and caps on teeth? Going to a dentist would be interesting. Going another step, outside medical devices wouldn't fit anymore and would bring up some unique delimas. What about people with prosthetics? If someone turns into a bear, I'm sure their leg isn't going to fit anymore, yet Unknown will wonder why they make such a claim all of a sudden. Lots of places to go with these stories. [[User:Tinbender|Tinbender]] 21:24, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Hey, not really sure on any of the points raised, have to give it some thought. One thing to consider though is can anthro's act as a bridge to humans for viruses that currently only affect animals?--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 23:35, 10 February 2008 (EST)

== A mortal analysis of Paradise ==

Lets me see if I get some of the details right.

There is a post-singularity Uber-computer, that when projected into 3-space, has the same consistency as humanity's combined thumbnail and happens to be running a simulation of the events leading up to its own creation. Secondly, it gets infected by a super-bug/virus that makes borg nano-probes look overly large and cumbersome. Said post-singularity, sentient, ROB-type entity/ virus changes some lines of code (if such things can be referred to as such) in reference to the people in the simulation, in and around the vicinity of Chicago (maybe the super-bug's designers had way-distant ancestors from there, or whose ancestors had a grudge against the place). The Uber-comp, in a flash of inspiration counters with the 'firewall-from-not-heck', or RDF as we understand it. The ROB is still successful with its dastardly and despicable plan to make the simulated history end differently.

That I get as far as it can be understood by a three-dimensional entity not particularly versed in post-singularity, multi-dimensional physics and computational theory.

The RDF, The Veil, The "Really-Annoying-Mess-Up-Everyones-Lives" Field, appears to start collapsing or 'twisting' in several personal accounts. In fact, it would seem that there are certain individuals who have appeared to figure out means of 'gazing-past' the gaps in said previously mentioned field even though they do not have one of their own. Yes it has been theorized that they will soon fall victim to the ROB, however, consider that all of this is in one sense mere coding (albeit it happens to be far more complex than that), and that said people are taking advantage of 'bugs' in the code. How many bugs are there? Is it possible for someone (probably a changed, or mad scientist) to 'tune' or 'tinker' with the field, probably no more than tweaks to appearance or color? I know the Primary Engineer Of This Work has stated that there are no 'powers', but then again, this is all just code, and hackers can sometimes be just mortal.

Just a thought or two. I should probably stop this monologue before a super spy shows up.
~midon~

:You're pretty close overall, though the simulation doesn't necessarily have to be of the ROB's own creation. Human Earth could be something It came up with all by Itself. Another book that's similar to what I've come up with here is ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_(novel) Darwinia]''. Someone suggested that the best thing for the ROB to do is to restore from backup. The thing is, these are still people. ROB doesn't have a moral problem with allowing them to die within the sim, but will act to protect both itself and its people from an outside threat. Hence the RDF and other measures.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 17:46, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Thinking far future... ==

First, to make it VERY clear, I am NOT thinking of any stories or anything set in the 2020 period yet. I've just been thinking of how the world may be like by then, as the last half are about to change.

I suspect there would be a mix of celebration (the last humans are joining us!) and mourning (humans will no longer be as they were). Regionally, there will probably be searches for the "last human baby", the ones born days/hours before the last Aug 17 change; they'd probably be local celebrities, similar to "New Years Babies"

And in 2021, the nervousness would start. Is the change source gone? Is it mutating? Are we going to change further? Or into something else now? For the Changed Generation, that little shiver of fear every August 17th will probably persist until they are all gone.

All that assumes civilization hasn't fallen apart by then of course. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:42, 25 February 2008 (EST)

== Summer Olympics ==

This was nagging at the back of my mind a bit, but I finally nailed it down to actually check dates:

:"The 2008 Summer Olympics, officially known as the Games of the XXIX Olympiad, will be celebrated from August 8, 2008 to August 24, 2008".

For the record, the 2004 Olympics also just straddled the Change day, having started on Aug 13th. No other Summer Olympics have straddled Change day, but the 1996 games ended just before it, and the Paralympic Games that year did straddle the Change day.

The 2012 games in London curiously have a break between the end of the Olympics on Aug 12, 2012, and the start of the Paralympics on Aug 29.

Just something to think about for writers out there. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:The Change takes place right in the middle of the Olympics. All it takes is for one or two athletes to change to gum up the works. These people are already in top physical shape, too. But what happens when a swimmer becomes a dolphin, an otter, or perhaps something that doesn't swim well? I don't think the RDF can handle becoming as large as a rhino. They'll still displace an awful lot of water when they splash in.

:I'll have to mention this in Open Secrets.

:--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:53, 27 February 2008 (EST)

::At least the illness will be a bit of a cover. Depending on how many Changed athletes there are, (both active and new Changed), the illness could be used to skip out on some events out of necessity.

::Still the pressure to perform, even if their form is inappropriate for the sport (A Bull trying to do a polevault or the triathlon in general? A bear for gymnastics? A Mouse in weightlifting? ) will be intense

::There would probably be a lot of discussion when a star athlete suddenly isn't performing as well as they did before.

::Of course, a few years after that, the Beijing Olympics here will probably end up with a * like the LA and Moscow Olympics, as people find out about the Change and the number of ringers (otters in swimming events, felines and primates in gymnastics, gazelles and cheetahs in track events, bears and bulls in weight lifting, etc...) semi-intentionally sent by the various countries. We could very well see TTC-level problems happening in Olympic Village.

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== What happens ''after'' 2020? ==

Point one: Computer programs are never ''intrinsically'' equipped with an off-switch. Rather, a shutdown condition must be explicitly coded into a program -- and any program which ''lacks'' an explicit shutdown condition, will continue to chug merrily along until something hardware-ish gets in the way.

Point two: The Change is the result of a 'furry virus", ''i.e.,'' a '''computer program'''.

2020 is when the entire planetary population will be furry... but who's to say the 'furry virus' won't ''continue'' to do its thing, Changing people year in and year out, with each year's quantity of Changes being double that of the year before? We know that being Changed is ''not'' an absolute protection against the 'furry virus' -- the setting rules themselves ''explicitly allow'' previously-Changed people to get hit with another dose of Change, after all -- so ''either'' (a) the 'furry virus' ''does'' have an explicitly-coded off-switch, or else (b) starting in 2020, an ever-increasing number of people are going to end up Changing ''two or more times in any given year.''

If the 'furry virus' ''has'' a built-in off-switch, that begs the question of what, exactly, its shutdown condition ''is.'' Does it stop spreading/infecting when there's no unchanged Human left, is it waiting for some specific event or combination of events before it quits, or what? Perhaps the guy who wrote the 'furry virus' did so with the specific intent of encouraging ROB to make [insert specific changes here] in ROB's virtual world, such that the results of those changes are the virus's 'off-switch'?

If, on the other hand, the 'furry virus' has ''no'' built-in brakes, things can get weird, fast. People have already floated the notion of Changes happening "out of season"; what if these 'unscheduled' Changes are merely a harbinger of things to come, in which people can be re-zapped at any time of year, an arbitrarily large number of times per year? It may be instructive, or at least amusing, to extrapolate the data given in "The Numbers", and divide each year's expected number of Changes by the expected population for that year: In 2020, there's 1.12 Changes per person (perhaps every human being Changes, regardless of their current state, and there's a 12% chance of one guy Changing ''twice?).'' Since we're basically talking about a doubling function, it only takes until 2024 for every ex-human to be an involuntary member of the Change Of The Month Club (because there's a touch over 17 Changes per person that year), and the Change Of The '''Day''' Club starts up in 2029 (during which year there's a bit less than 514 Changes per person per year). In 2034, the extrapolated number of Changes per person for that year is significantly over 15,000 (which works out to about 7/4 of a Change ''per hour,'' every hour, for every human being); by 2040, we hit 1.75 Changes per ''minute;'' 2046 is when every human being starts to hit 1 Change per ''second.''

To repeat what I said above: Things get weird, fast.

Obviously, the above figures are ridiculous, since they're derived from mindless extrapolation of an exponential curve. Perhaps the most sensible way to go is to presume that ROB manages to ''do'' something about the metatstasizing 'furry virus' no later than 2025 or so. In any case, one hopes said figures at least provide a bit of food for thought... [[User:Cubist|Cubist]] 05:03, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

== Change and the Media ==

It's probably a sign that I watch WAY too much TV, but it's a theme that's been in the back of my mind (man that back area's getting mighty crowded with ideas). As the Change progresses, even with the Veil in place, more and more effects of the Change will start showing up in other ways, and it will become more and more 'public' even if the Unchanged won't really know what is going on. I suspect TV shows especially will begin to show a lot of these.

This is just some of my rambling thoughts on what the TV Cable signals might be sending to the screens of the Changed near-Future.

Reality TV in all its forms will probably be the first to really start showing the effects of the Changed, since they tend to have the fastest turnaround time and the most contact with non-actors. Court shows (like I wrote in my short story case) will have more and more cases of Changed vs Norms and even weird Changed vs Changed cases. "He won't share the nail clippers!" "She gifted me the money for the vacation to Alaska in January")

Gameshows also will start having more Changed contestants, especially popular ones like Price is Right.

And then you have the Survivor types. Show's like "Top Model" and "Bachelor(ette)" and "Blind Date" (especially given the Change's habit of giving the Changed Eye-turning bodies) will probably have the most Changed on a show early on (whether intentionally or unintentionally).

Home Makeover shows may start seeing even weirder designs as designers/homeowners remake rooms to give room for antlers or bigger buttons for hoof fingers and such. (We thought Frank's designs on Trading Spaces were weird BEFORE he Changed... :P )

Amazing Race may have a Changed Team soon; a few Changed in the Big Brother House (probably intentionally put in there by a Changed Studio staffer), and the next Survivor or two would probably have some contestants.

Once the Field comes down, I fully expect CBS to roll out a "Furries vs Normals" Survivor while they can.

Now onto more tasteful TV. (arguably :P )

Cartoons? (what few new ones that are made) will likely start having more and more of a furry bend to them. Hallowe'en specials may turn 'human' toons into furry ones as experiments to transition shows.

Soaps? Expect Change stories fairly soon I dare say. I don't watch them myself, but from what I've heard of some storylines they've done in the past, the Change isn't all that strange. These writers will probably be chaffing at the restrictions of the Field the most.

Sitcoms will probably start getting Changed in-jokes fairly quickly as more Changed writers and actors come on staff. Some of the jokes may verge on Veil-breaking too, but viewers would discount as visual FX.

Procedurals/Drama's, business as normal but more Change-related stories. Maulings and gorings investigated on CSI's (along with strange fingerprints/bootprints, hair samples, etc...), Without a Trace investigating people who disappear after Change Day, maybe even a TG mystery. Numb3rs maybe touching on the Change rate (imagine Chris brought in as an advisor for an ep ? :) ). House or ER dealing with a Changed patient and/or Changed doctors/nurses.

And finally (for now) Sci Fi/Fantasy shows will probably find themselves in a very difficult position. On the one hand, they'd be ideal to start exploring the Change itself. On the other hand, as long as the Field is in effect, they can't really explore them since they'd have to turn normals into Furry's (or dress furry's in fursuits). Plus, a show's setting may not exactly be ideal for adjusting to the Change. "SG-1/Atlantis" may be able to adjust (turn it into an Ori curse or something), but Terminator would have a harder time. Heroes could probably pull it off, but BSG? Unlikely. (Imagine them finding 'Earth' but it's a Furry Earth... Hmmm...)

Anyways, that's just some of my rambling thoughts on the TV of the near future, for what its worth.

:There's a simple way to make furries show up in Television. Simply use the polarized lenses as featured in Open Secrets on the video camera units. The image of the furries would pass through the polarized lenses onto the film. The film would record the true image in the same way that people would see the true image. Boom, RDF circumvented. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:26, 28 January 2009 (EST)

:: True those would work. But everyone involved for those scenes would have to Know or questions would be raised. Depending on the scene and production. (Thouhg some could be handwaved, as long as the producer/editors Know. "Bob's gonna play the part of a man-rat for this scene. We'll CG-replace him in Editing afterward"

::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 12:33, 28 January 2009 (EST)

::: Well, at the very least, the cameraman is going to be in the know fast! Actually, I could see something like this being done once things go public. We could have a documentary on the early Changed (while you can still get human actors!), and you'd have some cameras with the filter on it and some without so you could show what the Changed sees and what the unsuspecting humans around him see. --[[User:98.236.12.68|98.236.12.68]] 05:14, 29 January 2009 (EST)

:::: That is happening to some extent, though not with the filters yet. Shiloh (and her new boyfriend newly Changed this year) are doing what they can to document the Change and how it affects lives as it happens (on the side from their main jobs), and I'm sure she's far from alone on this.

:::: Once more Documentary makers get ahold of this and it goes public, I'm sure there will be more too.

::::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:33, 29 January 2009 (EST)

== Furries in Space? ==

OK Time for even more thoughts from me. :) Endeavor's launch last night triggered this thought.

I'm not going to elaborate, but is anyone watching the ISS crew for change symptoms? Or the shuttle crew if they're up? A Change up there could be Veil breaking just because of the amount of attention and lack of privacy those people have. (not to mention the extreme circumstances they'd be under).

The Change itself could very well spell the end of Manned space flight for the next few decades in the end.

Not sure if it would spell the end of manned space flight but yeah even just an examination of the air filter would find stuff that couldn't have gotten up there any other way.--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 19:16, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

:I'm sure it'd be the end of manned space flight for quite some time simply for economic reasons if nothing else. This is going to be rather disruptive and there'll probably be a bit of a budget pinch. [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

==The Reality Distortion Field is Real ==

Sadly, not the one you have in mind: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/18/2117208 :) [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

== Bats? ==

Just a question about the species: I've noticed you put aside birds for now, but what about bats?--[[User:142.68.130.19|142.68.130.19]] 23:52, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:Bats will put a huge strain on the Veil. If/when they do show up, it might be coming down by then anyway. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:36, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Farming in Paradise ==

Just shooting an idea in here for later. [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080410153658.htm This is the technology] widely deployed it the Paradise setting. But put the clock back ten years (1997 discovery, widespread global deployment by 2008). Biochar/agrichar. With any luck, the Green Revolution will be replaced with the Black Gold Revolution quickly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== BioFuels ==

Jon, you're beginning to scare me a bit. :P

This was just on Slashdot this morning: [http://www.utexas.edu/news/2008/04/23/biofuel_microbe/ New Source for Biofuels Discovered by Researchers At The University of Texas at Austin]

Basically, some bacteria that can make cellulose which can be turned to fuel, and the cellulose can be harvested without harming the bacteria.
--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 06:10, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

:I read about this yesterday. They hope to increase production efficiency 17-fold because otherwise, you'd have to cover the ''entire'' Midwest with this. Unfortunately it won't happen fast enough to prevent the shortages I know are coming.

:I read about this stuff every day. I mean, ''every'' day. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:19, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Another bit of news: [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece "Scientists find bugs that eat waste and excrete petrol."] --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 11:12, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== The Chicago Ghost Killer ==

After having seen countless videos of Persona 3 on youtube, and having played the .hack//GU games, and having read about this setting repeatedly, this idea was born out of my skull. It doesn't really fit with the setting per-say, (people dealing with expected changes in their lives and the changing of culture as truth becomes harder and harder to keep hidden), but it's still interesting.

Imagine if once the number of furries hits the thousand mark or close to it (1997), a strange series of murders begin in Chiago and wander outwards. To normal police and investigators these people have -nothing- in common, just random innocent people. But the furries know that every single person killed was a furry! Now this is where things start to get weird.

When seen by furries, the killer is a lanky laid back twenty something raven haired young man whose expression almost always remains passive wearing semi-formal dark clothes with a revolver in one hand and spare bullets in the opposite pocket.

When the police just about anyone else whose effected by the perception filter see him, they see 'Average Joe' or 'Face You Can't Help But Forget' and never ever notice the weapon he's holding unless he hits them with it or shoots them or something just as drastic. It is also is picked up by metal detectors the same as any metal gun. In other words, his existence, is like the existence of furriness to normal humans, his existence effects them, but they can't notice him directly.

This guy always knows a furry when he sees one regardless of media or medium, or reads one, this include file records of people TGed by the virus. When he spots one or finds out about one, he calmly location that person, in order of him learning about them, and shoot that person in the head without fanfare then simply move on to the next one.

Physically his strength and speed are all perfectly average human, meaning a bear or tiger furry could easy tear him apart.

Strange thing is that if profiled, no records of him will turn up, anywhere!

Also, he might even begin to appear DIFFERENTLY to people who are under the effect of the perception filter. He can't appear as a furry, and can NEVER EVER appear as a precise person (he can't appear as someone's mother or brother). But he can ultimately change how people look at him, they see a five year old girl with a teddy bear opposed to a man with a revolver even if he STILL can't fit in a toy car for the life of him and that 'bear' might go off if someone else 'hugs' it, (which he'd avoid someone doing at all posts). He could also appear as a fire fighter or police officer if he gets clever enough. Though furries will -always- see through this disguise. Along with any human whose able to see furries without effort.

The Chicago Ghost Killer never attacks non-changed humans, and will never take a shot if there's a reasonable chance of shooting a non-changed person.

He travels by mundane methods, he always travels by the most practical and speedy method and always has the correct change or ticket (this is not an illusion). His taxi, train, or airplane never crash.

If detained for questioning, he might just walk straight out of the police station unless some of the cops are furries. If stripped of his weapon and ammo next time he shows up he'll have a new set perfectly identical to the last one down to the imperfections in the casing.

Now this is where things get ambiguous. I don't know if he's killed he just appears in Chicago the day after the change again each year, or weather two different people with abilities similar to his appear in his stead these armed with a crossbow and another one shot distance weapon.

Since deleting the entire universe is not an option, The Chicago Ghost Killer might be an emergency fail safe to try and cut off the infected flesh from the system.

His name comes from where he started killing (strangely the same place as the changes began) and the fact that to normal humans he IS like a ghost, there yet not there but decidedly felt.

I know this doesn't really fit with the setting at all, but I just had to share it with the only people who'd appreciate it.

Thank you.

- Alex Warlorn. 2008 06 15

:And his name is Agent Johnathan Walker Smith, is it? Seems like a Matrix Agent to me... (unsigned comment)
::Actually I don't think he'd -have- a name, or even know the true nature of the world, he'd just know what he -had- to do and how to do it and how he can do it.-- Alex Warlorn

== Octuplets born in California ==

Things that make you go Hmmmm....

8 babies at once
Planning to breast feed them all.
Names not being released (yet).

Could we have a changed couple hiding out there from the glare of the media spotlight? :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:25, 27 January 2009 (EST)

=='''Future RDF Failure'''==

I'm starting to work out ideas about how the RDF would fail. My current thinking is that it will work on a small scale first. Visually, there would be a "refraction", like seeing your own eyes through your glasses. Or your leg halfway in a pool. This is the "Refraction Effect". These are places where the RDF has been removed, like a section of glass, revealing the Real World underneath. It's gone. The visual effect makes it clear a border's been crossed. I'm not sure ''when'' this is going to happen. Probably sometime near the US Gov wants to go public. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 07:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

===Weirdness Censor?===

I've been thinking about an "RDF Lite" that could basically act as a Weirdness Censor instead of the full blown see-furries-as-humans version that exists right now. There'd still be social upheaval, but not the civilization-ending type that would most likely happen. I'm very likely going to do this in After Hours, but I want to do it right. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

==The "Posthuman" World ==

In order to differentiate this setting from WoC more, I'm going to keep a certain number of regular humans in the furry world that results when the virus runs its course. Same rules as other furry types as far as parent-child species. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 19:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

:No offense, but that feels like a cop-out to me. As someone else pointed out, a computer virus is NOT going to simply 'burn itself out' a computer virus continues like any program infinitely unless it's directly ordered to. Once it runs out of humans to transform, it'll start to transform furries into other species, and become even more chaotic as time progresses. I just feels cheap the virus suddenly just stops, and it doesn't make sense form a programming point of view either since it would open MANY MORE cans of worms anyway. -- Alex Warlorn June 15 2009

::Okay. How to address this? A lot of my ideas for this setting comes from Charles Stross's work, which can get pretty mind-bending at times. ''Accelerando, Glasshouse, Singularity Sky'', and ''Iron Sunrise'' all come to mind. One of my basic assumptions is that the Furry Virus is itself sentient/sapient, but it's not ''quite'' as smart as the transhuman intelligence running the Simulation Space that is our universe (down to the Planck Length).

::The RDF was a last-ditch effort to maintain the experiment as it was. We're all a bunch of microbes, as far as ROB is concerned. But It's not the type of Being to just chuck the whole experiment into the incinerator and start over. At this point ROB has scrapped the original experiment in favor of trying to prevent our little petri dish universe from going completely bad. So, 1) contain the Furry Virus, and 2) prevent it from doing any more damage beyond 2020 by creating a specific End State. The FV remains, but it becomes an uncommon chronic disease.

::Frankly, now that furries and the TGed have been Outed ROB may even stop the history editing. More obvious actions include: Refilling dead oilfields, creating social conditions so humans aren't really surprised at the Change. There are probably all kinds of countermeasures ROB has done that I haven't thought of in order to keep people from going ''crazy crazy'' and incinerating their own petri dish. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::I was thinking of a similar idea, but in a programming context as opposed to a biological one, and ''very'' limited. Think of every person as an element of an array, i.e. Human[]. An algorithm designed to change the values of every element, like the furry virus is doing, would most likely go from 0 to some constant POPULATION_HUMAN. In that case, ROB might be able to circumvent the effects for the virus for a select few by assigning people to special values: NULL, NaN, -1, MAX_INT, INFINITY, or other predefined numbers, even those that aren't considered "special" to humans. The purpose of this would be to preserve ''some'' unaltered "data" for purposes not important to us, and it can't be done for all humans because of the effort or memory required to "manually" fix so many values.

:::Conversely, perhaps ROB will let the virus run its course so It can then safely run a variation of the virus to turn everyone back into humans. That would be another interesting take: when the world's furry in 2020, how will everyone feel when they find out they'll all be human again by about 2055, depending on population, and perhaps if the same thing happens in cycles? ...

:::...Or if it turns out that life has been this way for a long, ''long'' time. Thinking back to what ROB has been able to do, this is easily within Its power. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 05:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::ROB figures it's best to let the virus run its course then neutralize it like I've described. Perhaps ROB's reworking the Experiment to account for the new changes.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Colons! Colons as far as the eye can see! Ahaha.

:::::One little problem I had with ''Accelerando'' (though I did indeed love it in all other respects) was how completely unfathomable the Higher Beings were. You never could figure out what their reasons were for anything…and in fact, in all their interactions with the remnants of pre-Singularity humanity, they mostly seemed to delight in "poking the anthill". Sending boatloads of recreations of historical and fictitious characters out to that space station just to mess with humanity's minds. And not only could you not ask them why, you wouldn't be able to understand their answer if you did. Hence, one of the things that you hope you learn in the end—the question of "why?"—is forever unanswered.

:::::It would be kind of nice to have some of the characters eventually be able to confront ROB and the virus and ask them what the deal was, but I'm not holding my breath any. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 06:22, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::::I'm very, ''very'' careful not to jump the shark. But at the very least ROB does have some empathy for us microbes. While ROB does do some "resimulation" for TGed folk, it absolutely ''will not'' alter memories because that would cause personality death.

::::::Paradise is more similar too ''[http://www.amazon.com/Darwinia-Novel-Different-Twentieth-Century/dp/0812566629 Darwinia]'' than ''Accelerando''. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Another possibility I just thought about: perhaps this isn't the act of a virus at all. Instead this is the fix to an ancient "Human Virus" that infected the universe, and it's just restoring the original experiment (or whatever). Or if you ''really'' want to throw people off: humanity ''is'' the virus itself, and this is how ROB is solving the problem. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 07:25, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

::Well, to be fair, this is a post-Singularity virus. Nobody ever said it was strictly one-function only. For all we know, it may have a behavioral change programmed into it. "Take Z action until condition A is met, then switch to taking Y action until condition B is met, etc." Or heck, the virus itself may be a sentient/sapient digital life form with free will, fully able to "change its mind" when it wants to. Certainly there is some intelligent agency at work behind the Reality Distortion Field that has already shown the ability to change its own behavior or react to changes in infected people's situations (changing TG furs' "ghosts"—and all extant records—from male to female when they get pregnant, for instance). No reason the virus can't be the same way. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 23:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

:How is that going to work? I'm not sure how humanity can propagate by the "same rules" as other furry types given that it's been established humans and furres are not able to interbreed. Perhaps there might be an inverse of the Sleeping Sickness (a Waking Sickness? :) which causes furries to randomly mutate back into human in addition to the other types of furry form? —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 22:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

::Two thoughts: 1) In 2021 there's a group of humans worldwide who don't Change. They're simply the one species among many. After this point they can breed with furres because the RDF is down anyway. Perhaps they can already do this in Bubbled areas in 2010. 2) Human forms can be a recessional trait that shows up on occasion, between two furres.

::Furry babies already look ''very'' human due to a type of neoteny. Even the herbivores like horses and deer have very stubby muzzles. It looks more like a mask when they're born. Within two years those muzzle stubs grow the "baby animal" proportions, then as normal. They're generally more thinly furred for those first two years also. I keep thinking of puppies. No matter what the breed, they all look ''extremely'' similar when newborn. Same will be true in this setting. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, TG and TF will continue. I'm thinking of something akin to Matthias' character, with random changes. It'll be considered a chronic disease. And the severe forms ''can'' kill you. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Possibly the first occurance of ROB ==

As I mentioned when I introduced him, ROB (Random Omnipotent Being) comes from some other message boards I regularly view/visit. Well someone seems to have found what may have been the first occurrence of ROB. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=53955] Pretty humble beginnings for him if you ask me. :) (His brother, COROB (Crossover Obsessed Random Omnipotent Being) similarly had humble beginnings a month or so later. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=55397] )

== The RDF and extra extremities. ==

Assume here that the RDF is functioning normally and hasn't broken down. Normal humans can't feel the extra extremities of the Changed, like tails and horns - they just feel empty air. But what would another Changed see if they were to look at a normal human attempting to touch a Changed's tail? Would they see the human seemingly passing their hand through the tail of the Changed? [[User:CNash|CNash]] 23:52, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

:I think you've got it wrong. Extra extremities can still be physically felt. The RDF is like a holographic cloak around the changed - it doesn't actually have an effect on their form. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 00:57, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:Shadow is basically correct. Their hand wouldn't pass through empty air. They would meet some weird resistance, but they'd forget about it in a short time. Other Changed would see them touch the tail they can't see. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:: I was going by a line in "Made Alone"; CM's diary entry: ''I say, `Oh yeah, here, grab my tail'. He humors me, but he cannot feel it. I feel him put his hand on it, but he just doesn't feel it.'' - I haven't yet read through all the stories and I'm going chronologically. [[User:CNash|CNash]] 11:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:::If there's one thing I've learned about running a shared setting is to ''not'' demand ironclad continuity. I always allow authors leeway for dramatic purposes, and I don't mind if events don't quite match up. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:19, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

::::Given that is the earliest described Change event, I just assumed that the Veil was stronger back then, and since lessened to the extent of allowing feeling of extremities. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 07:32, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

== Glitch ==

Assertion one: Universe of Paradise setting is mathmatically generated by advanced post-singularity computer. Assertion two: Pre-singularity computers have demonstrated randomized renumbering of internal programing due to outside factors. These renumberings are identified as "glitches," having no basis in programming like bugs and viruses. Assumption: Post singularity computer operates with similar if heavily advanced hardware as pre-singularity computer. Conclusion: Randomized renumberings of programming will occur independently of programming. That is to say, it is not inconceivable that somewhere, a coffee cup on the table is suddenly on the counter. Or that an ant becomes a different species of ant. Or that a gray-eyed man one day has blue eyes. Perhaps these small changes are common and constant. -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 05:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

== Species Expansion ==

We have already seen at least one Elephant man. Is the Furry Virus, as it expands, drawing from a larger gene base? And if so, when would the first nonmammalians arise? Personally, I'm expecting crocs in the near future. Perhaps even 2010... -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 22:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

:The setting is mammals only. Reptiles and birds have very different reproductive biologies. Birds wouldn't be able to fly and cold-blooded creatures can't support a human-like brain and its energy requirements. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== An observation ==

From what I've read, the 'computer simulation' theory is just that- a theory. There's no point blank evidence that this is what's happening within the storyline, and, while I obviously shouldn't just stroll in and rewrite things, but I'd ask the main participators in this storyline to keep this in mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- (note added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC))

:Jon is the creator of the setting and he has final say in these things... He has not ruled on this yet, but I think he will if it becomes a problem. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== If a person doesn't TF again next year... ==

Maybe I missed something. Is it right that if a person doesn't TF again the year after they first change, they stop changing for good? Thinking of the story's setting (computer simulation), if the change is caused by a virus, surely it could keep affcting people? If that doesn't make sense I'll expand, but surely someone knows what I'm talking about. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- signature added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] )

:First it's "bear", not "bare" - homophones are a big stumbling point for a large portion of people, so I try to help people where I can with them :)

: Second... Remember that the whole "post-singularity simulation infected by a virus" schtick is just one possible cause. Jon has said that it could be, but has not pinned it on that. If it really is a virus, then there is a possibility that you could change again 20 years down the line. However... It might be that the multi-change people are somehow an exception - like the virus leaves behind a flag saying "infected" (you'll find this with existing computer viruses, actually) and with multi-changers this flag is missing. Or it could be that the multi-changers are actually being created because of ROB trying to undo the damage done by the virus. And a third possibility is that there is no "virus" and the change is happening according to a plan setup by the people that programmed the simulation - and the multi-changers were randomly selected to be multi-changers.

:In other words... Even if you assume that the postulated "post-singularity simulation" is reality the change could be more than a virus and the limits on multiple changes could be somehow tied directly to the purposes that the simulation was created for... Anyway... I've gone on too long with this. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 19:03, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

::Ugh. I actually thought whilst typing, "that's not right, it should be bare..." blast. So much for trying to write a story if I can't do that kind of simple thing.

::Thanks for your help. I'm trying to make sure I understand the setting as best I can so I can make my story (hopefully a series, but maybe I'm being a bit ambitious) as best as possible. I'm trying to break the mould... Most characters in the Paradise setting seem to be similar. If my first attempt works, I might try one with a different character... Actually, I'd probably do it even if it didn't work :) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Just to be clear, it is a simulation running on a post-Singularity cloud of computronium. And it is a virus doing the dirty work. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:34, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:::: *GACK* - Last time I read the setting page that was still a "speculation" bit :( -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

== Human/Furry detail ==

More prattling, sorry. Bear with me (Heh. Got it right this time.).

The information on smaller details in the differences between humans and furs is irritatingly lax, and I hit a block while writing my own story stressing over an incredibly minor detail. My problem aside, I think that the lack of detail makes it awkward to write... Would two characters that changed into the same species be exactly the same anatomically? I'm not sure. A couple of stories have thrown me in that respect, mainly "A Kind of Paradise", and "Twisting the Veil". I feel like I'm having a bit of a whine actually, and should just get on with it, but right now, I feel like speaking my mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:The anatomical differences between furry species can vary, but not so much that they become incompatible with each other. This is why I didn't want to add birds/reptiles/fish/insects. They're just too different. If they're the same species, they're exactly the same. There is a variance in hair (Some have it, some don't) otherwise everyone is firmly anthro rather than, say, animal ears and tail and nothing else. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:37, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I understand why there are only mammals in the setting, personally I think it's a good choice. I wasn't really thinking about the degrees of how human/animalistic people are, but rather what traits they take on when they change. For example, I know that people have commented on changes in sounds and smells, but not sight, is sight affected? And, as for traits, I know that most species of rodents are incapable of vomiting, fox example. But would the humans be affected by this? Of course, I'm not asking for all the details, that would be ridiculous considering the number of possibilities. I just don't want to write something that doesn't follow the rules of the setting. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Actually... Things like that are, IMHO, why the 'Sleeping Sickness' bracelets have been issued. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Um, yes, those. Maybe I haven't been reading the right stories, but to the best of my knowledge, the bracelets are to let doctors know (provided they already know about the whole thing) what you changed into. Have I missed something? (I feel like I'm asking too many questions. Sorry.) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::::There is a mention in one of a changed that was a species to which aspirin is toxic being killed by a doctor prescribing aspirin... I just don't remember which story that was. The stories about Doctor Clay have most of the good information about how changed can suffer from problems/illnesses incumbent to their species. (IIRC there is a judge that starts suffering from a problem only seen in horses - and he's a horse...) -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::::The idea behind the "Sleeping Sickness" bracelets was pretty much a (bad) attempt by a small group at the CDC to get help to Changed. Hospitals were supposed to report such cases that presented in order for doctors in the know to be summoned. It was created essentally with the idea that it wasn't really a workable solution, but the best that could be come up with. The factoid that came up about toxic medications was based on a factoid I heard many years ago, that penicillian has a singular toxicity for rodents. As such, as drug testing is set up today, its unlikely it would ever be approved. The idea is that there is enough transformation that people might pick up certiain toxic reactions to things that they didn't realize. I'm not sure anyone has really gone into depth with this, but I'd think you could infer that some canines would have violent reactions to chocolate, for example. Like all things, there would be some variability, just like some dogs can seem to eat chocolate fine while others it might kill. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 23:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

== Extreame ROB ==

I had an odd thought last night about the implications of what ROB does with respect to rewriting documentation of peoples pasts. ROB has been known to change paperwork, pictures and even apparent histories of people. (Didn't someone in After Hours discover they were supposed to have dated people earlier as the opposite gender?) That got me to thinking about how far this might all go. Assuming that ROB doesn't actually start to mess with memories, will it start to alter older records? Pictures from earlier than the first Change, even for subjects that died before it all started? Paintings? And would they be consistent? Would every painting done of George Washington find the same form? And to take it a few steps further, what about statues? This could get messy... which isn't always a bad thing from a story perspective. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 15:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:I can see that happening more as a result of the furry virus, since that kind of extreme "history editing" feels more malevolent to me than something ROB would do. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 20:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Interesting though that would be, it's an important plot mechanic for there to still be remnants of the human world - Once the entire human race has transformed, they need to still be aware that this has happened - Rewriting history would remove this and it would be as if nothing happened... if you see what I mean? -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

::It would make sense for things to get messy if it were the virus causing it. Sloppy, half rewritten pasts, people not sure of what really happened and what didn't, more like a temporal infection than a careful rewriting. That kind of scare could lead the reader to be a bit more sympathetic about ROB trying to stop the virus's progression. It would also make a great opportunity to go all Serial Experiments Lain on a story and leave people wondering wtf -- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:10, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Furry Sizes ==

What size are furries? It's pretty clear that bears are big and mice are small, and it mostly makes sense to have the same thing (but not as extreme) for anthroid furries, but there are some other size differences I can't so easily imagine. Some guidelines might be helpful. Ferrets in particular, ferret males are often twice as big as ferret females, as is the case of many mustelids, but at the same time both of them are smaller than cats. If I make a female ferret larger than a rat, and a male ferret smaller than a cat, that's starting to leave not so much room to spare. If I had to finagle a scale I'd say

* mice - 1.2 meters (or less!)
* rats - 1.3 meters
* female ferrets, squirrels, minks, etc - 1.4 meters
* male ferrets, ringtails, mongooses - 1.6 meters
* female cats - 1.7 meters
* male cats, skunks, raccoons - 1.8 meters uh...
* big cats and wolves - 1.9-2.0
* big stuff like bears - all the way to 2.2.

But then again it might also be fun to have a 2 metres tall cavy. GEORGE LOVES YOU COME GIVE GEORGE A BIG HUG.

Maybe illustrating size differences between sexes is a bit too piccaunish. >.<
-- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:04, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

:I should personally think that irrelevant. While there's clearly going to be some destinction between heights and races, I think guidelines are unnesecary. People come in all shapes and sizes, this individuallity should be maintained. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

One little detail though, (and it doesn't really apply to me but may for others), removing hippo's, rhino's and elephants from the pool seems to be a bit speciest, considering moose are allowed. In looking at the Wiki, it seems that hippos (1.5meters) and rhinos (2.0 meters) are actually generally smaller or the same size as the largest moose (2.1 metres) species. Elephants seem to average about a meter or two larger than the moose.

Perhaps a better restriction would be to allow any land mammal (and any sea mammal that is between the sizes of the minimum land mammal size and the maximum land mammal size), but set minimum and maximum furre sizes; something like a min of 1.2 metres or 4ft to a max of 2.0 metres or 7ft.

Anyways, I'll try and keep an eye on things and see if I can culture this idea I've got further. - 19:50, 10 January 2008 [[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]

== Human Survival ==

Since the US government, and governments of the world, would have obviously known about the furry changes for many years as government officials became Changed, they logically would have set up Projects (like the Manhattan Project) to study the reasons and try and find a solution. It is obvious to them that the end of humanity will come and this should have all contries of the world enganged in studying the scientific causes of the RDF and ways to affect it. Many of the scientists themselves who get changed would surely want to study the effect. Any physics professor changed would jump at the chance to study it and get the next Nobel prize for figuring it out. It does defy natural laws, therefore the new laws it does follow can be studied. If there is some master computer responsible for the universe, such as in Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, then this it might be possible for a "super computer" build by the UN or whoever to communicate with the ROB virus program or even the Master computer itself, and change it, such as the computer "Obie" in the Well World books. Personally, I favor a different approach. In 1987 a super computer someplace near Chicago DID develop self awareness, predicted that mankind was going to overpopulate and destroy the planet, and it decided to "FIX" things by connecting with the main universal computer at the center of the universe on a night when the least number of galaxies are in the way, which happens to be Aug 17. The governments at some point would find out that the birth rate is on a serious decline even though it is possible for furries to have babies, it is not as common as humans due to all the different genetics and species involved. Mating a horse furry with a rabbit furry is much less likly to produce offspring, for example, that mating a horse furry with another horse furry, so regardless of who was married to who when they are human, statistically the couple won't be able to have children after both change, unless they are the same. Some story about finding the ROB computer near Chicago before 2020 should be a possibility and reasoning with it might be a good solution.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:37, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:The thing is, there is no ROB computer in our world, if I'm understanding what you're saying here. It isn't like Obie or the Well World where it's something inside the Universe itself that's causing the Change. This setting--basically our world--exists as a Planck-level simulation space inside a post-Singularity posthuman computer. There are two viruses (also posthuman, slightly more advanced) responsible for the Change: A relatively controllable TG virus, and the much newer "furry virus" that ROB can't contain with "history editing".
Keep in mind that governments didn't really know this was even happening until the early 2000s.
Otherwise, the RDF/Change as a source of study for physicists is a good angle.
-- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:57, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::I just hate to plug but if you want an example of how goverments might screw up the change read my story [[User:Fibio|Cascade Failure]]
-- [[User:Fibio|Fibio]] 20:42, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::Of course, in a way it's kind of pointless even to know about it, since I can't really foresee any way that it could ever become a plot point within the story itself. I can't really see humanity figuring out how to "hack" its way out.
It doesn't really make that much of a difference, from an in-universe standpoint, to assume that it's all being done by "magic". (Any sufficiently advanced technology…) —- [[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 21:23, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Pretty much [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityWarper] all around. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thanks folks for all the replies to my post! People to talk to! OK, first JonBuck, I am not really sure I understand all the Plank-level simulation space inside a post-singularity posthuman supercomputer stuff (I did try to look up the story Accelerando but I just found a book cover) but I interpret this to mean: Plank-Level = really really small; simulation space = not real or temporary space in computer memory; post-singularity = after a black hole evaporates in about a few trillion years; post human = mankind extinct; supercomputer = something like the Cosmic AC in [http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html] ?

However, my ignorance aside, regardless of what the supercomputer is, or what we are, it would in effect be God. Now ROB could represent the devil, or if God has gone crazy, the savior. ROB either was created by the supercomputer "GOD" on purpose or by accident, it was created by a simulation universe, either our own, a past one, or another running concurrently, to infect God, or it was created by God's creators as some part of the God computer for some purpose and function, and if that is the case then either it is carrying out its intended program or it has malfunctioned. I think that is a complete list of all possible options, so if I have missed one then please let me know.

You stated, "It comes from outside the post-Singularity brain, and is slightly more advanced than "ours". What's happening is this bit of malicious code (sentient, no less, but on a level far beyond our ability to comprehend it) is messing up the simulated world we reside in. Why? I dunno. One of those inscrutable things." This sentient "virus" needs to have come from one of the posibilities above, and I suppose it is up to you to decide which, but since "you dunno", then I will try to help.

I guess the first question is "Why did God create the universe?" which translated means "Why is the supercomputer running the simulation?" Is the goal good or evil? Perhaps the supercomputer was programed to do so for an evil purpose by its creators, and ROB is sort of like its concience it has developed and wants to mess up the experiment before it can produce evil results. I would favor ROB being good, instead of evil, perhaps trying to produce a different result that will end up doing good than if the simulation ran to completion on its present course. However, that being said, if ROB is a computer virus, and based on logic and programable, and is expending energy to maintain the RDF, scientists studying that might find a way to..either communicate with it, grab its attention, or annoy it. I believe that enabeling some communication with it, even though we won't understand it completly, would produce some interesting stories.

Fibeo, I had previously read your story and just re-read it. By the way it is fine to plug :) When I read it the first time I thought that it really did not fit in with the rest of the stories since it involved time travel. In the context of a simulation, that would mean more than one running at one time, all on different timelines, and being able to hop between them. Maybe ROB is trans-simulation and could have helped this, but I really don't see how anyone in a simulation could get the supercomputer running it to re-set it to a prior time point and insert someone from a future point. It was an interesting story however and I did enjoy reading it.

Robotech, "magic" is a nice simple explanation to explain the unexplainable, but mankind strives for answers, it seeks to understand, and predict and ultimately control those things it can not immediately explain. Faced with an unexplainable force that is threatening mankind itself with extintion, mankind will use all resourses at its disposal, spare no espence, bring the greatest scientific minds, changed and unchanged to work on studying and solving the problem. It may be futile, we may never be able to win against the Gods, but it is the nature of mankind to TRY! You mentioned it is unlikly manking could "hack" its way out. That would be one possibility, since mathematics would likly be the same for both us and the supercomputer and ROB which are both based on mathmatics and logic. however, there are possibities for stories regarding that attempt..and could be very interesting. If I was a writer, I might even try writing one, but who knows...I might anyways.

Back to JonBuck. The link was to an article about people thinking something and it becoming real. Much too powerful, sort of like...writers!
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:Okay. I'm going to clarify some concepts here.
:The Singularity I'm referring to is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity Technological_singularity] . Nothing to do with gravity. A [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman further entry on posthumanism] , and its close relation, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanist Transhumanist]. By Planck-level I mean, basically, the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units smallest length in the universe] . Everything down to those levels is "simulated".
:Moving on, the kind of questions you bring up I actually don't want to deal with. The reason I'm using the ROB acronym in the first place is to avoid overtly religious connotations. I realize that they're very important, but it's otherwise such a contentious issue in the real world. I really don't want to see any "communicating with ROB" stories.
:Post-Singularity intelligences are by nature inscrutable (I've seen Stross refer to them as "Weakly Godlike Entities" in his books). At this point ROB has switched to a "salvage mode" by making direct changes to the "simulation" in the form of alleviating energy crises (a huge concern of mine at the time I wrote most of my stories in this setting) and climate change.
:''Accelerando'' is actually [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerando_%28book%29 available for free].
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:27, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks for the reply Jonbuck, the links were very helpful and I have a clearer idea what you are talking about now. It is going to take me a while to read all the stories.
::I used religious words to describe ideas simply that are familiar but did not mean in any way to be controversial.
::I will try over the next few weeks to put together a short story within your constraints, and if it exceeds your limits we can just change it. I plan to make one assumption, and that is that a simulation is defined by rules set for it that need to be obeyed for it to continue running. ROB changing the speed of light in the simulation for example would be such a fundamental change in everything that it would break the entire simulation, i.e. crash the program. ROB can only work within the rules set for the simulation, agreed?
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:12, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :) At this point the simulation is being salvaged to prevent social chaos, death, and extinction of the people inside it.
:::There's a novel out that has some very similar ideas and influenced a lot of how I set up this setting: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_%28novel%29 ''Darwinia'' by Robert Wilson] .
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:22, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply JonBuck, I can work with that, and will post something in a few weeks for your feedback.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

== About ('''2004''') '''''Victory Starts Here''''' ==

OK, JonBuck, I lied and posted the story in just 2 days. I could not stop thinking about it. I got as far as I could. Could you please read it and then tell me the results of each of the experiments before I can continue in the next one? Thanks!
[[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:17, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

:After the "server crash" of 2011; the original story [[User:Enphilistor|Victory Starts Here]] (by [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] ) is now avalaible (in a very crude, text only format) in the Talk Page of it´s creator: [[User_talk:Enphilistor| Victory Starts Here]]
: -- [[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think I will just have to decide for myself how the experiments turn out and just hope you approve. One of my goals in the stories I plan to write is to explain "scientifically" all the effects you have going on here are consistent with all universal laws. If you are running a program, you can't change the code of the program while it is running. You can change the code but only by stoping the program from running and recompiling it. So anything ROB is doing has to be done inside the simulation following the rules of the simulation (under the premise of the stories I plan to write). It is really not going to be easy for the scientists(i.e. me) to explain the changes to the past records, or why they start off only being change a few years back, then all the way back to the day someone was born, and undoing history such as marriages. And remember, I can't have ROB using "magic", ROB is in the simulation and has to be constrained to its rules. Because of this constraint, ROB needs a "body" someplace and a supply of "energy" from somewhere, to direct and power all these changes. I hope you enjoy my next story, that should be entiteld something like "Victory Continues", where Paul has to cope with being a female pig, and the scientists recieve some confusing results on the origin of the signals they record.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 22:27, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

:Not really. If ROB is outside of the simulation, there's nothing to stop it from pausing the simulation and reworking the fabric of it as necessary. It's like pausing the Sims and placing new walls or whatever. As far as the Sim-people are concerned, those walls might as well as have always been there, even if we (the players) know better. ROB is not inside the simulation, ROB is the player(s) outside the simulation. In no sense does ROB need to obey any rules within the simulation, nor does it need act within the laws of the simulation to change the simulation. By definition anything ROB does is going to be 'magic' because turning people into furries, or editing history, isn't something that's allowed within physical laws. Most of the transformations directly violate the law of the conservation of mass and energy, for example.
:I don't mean to rain on your parade, and I'm clearly not Mr Buck (who might disagree with my explanation), but it seems like you're not quite getting the setting, as I understand it. Hope that helps.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 07:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

::Got it in one, Honeymane. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:30, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

JonBuck said, Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :)

In addition, since ROB hates paradoxes, and will go to such extremes as making sure each child will have both a biological father and a mother and never 2 fathers or 2 mothers, following the rule of conservation in energy and mass is necessary to avoid such paradoxes on an even more fundamental level and in any case easily achieved. If you read my story, that exact experiment has been set up to measure this. Since it is so easy to maintain mass and energy balance, which you will see in the next story, there is no reason to violate this universal law. Imagine the effect on the simulation if you try to break this rule either while it is running or "pausing" it. A calculation is in the process of being made on an object between it and every other object in the universe. In the middle of the calculation a zero is entered (E = mC^2, so if you are going to, C is either zero, which crashes the program and is not what JonBuck said, or as m goes to zero, then c goes to infinity which also changes the velocity of light constant which JobBuck said would not happen). Some calculations have already been performed and other calculations in progress have end up with a divisor of zero. You crash the program when you restart it, as the zero divisor propagates in all the calculations throughout the universe.

In any case, mankind will try and study these effects, and my stories will be mostly concerned with these attempts. However, when I say all laws have to be obeyed, that does not mean all laws that humans know about, it can include new ones. It may be that the results of the experiments will lead them to conclude that something is breaking the laws of the universe because they don't understand them all, but ROB will know what it is doing. I imagine it like this. The main computer can't use its antiviral programming to stop ROB as long as ROB is hiding in the simulation and following the rules in the simulation, but if ROB breaks the rules, and crashes it, he becomes exposed with no place to hide and gets zaped. You will see that in the next story, that ROB is still just as powerful to the same "magic" as it can is now, and still be consistent with all stories that have happened, and the setting JonBuck has set up. JonBuck has not really explained the interaction between the main computer and the virus or any protections or why they are not working. In any case, it doesn't matter what i think, since the stories I plan don't mention this at all, they will be consistent with either ROB being inside or outside the simulation, only what the beings in the simulation measure is in the stories. Just trust me, the story will be interesting and fun, and if JonBuck says no to some result after he reads it, I will change it. Fair?
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 01:54, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I haven't had time to read your story yet. Frankly, reading your comments here I'm getting a little antsy over what exactly the impact it would have on the overall setting. I think you're over-analyzing the setting, frankly. You're asking questions about it that I really can't answer.
:Also, use colons in front of your paragraphs to make them indent and create a "nested" topic. And put a blank line between paragraphs. Thanks.
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:21, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

::For JonBuck I had intentionally not been using indents so that my comments would be totally left justified and everyone the replies for everyone else indented, make it easier in my view to keep things organized. But if you prefer indents, I am easy.
::I had assumed that you had already read the story. It would be good for me to get some feedback on that since none of the things we discuss here are really in it, but may impact it.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think you're confusing the 'players' here. First, there's the computer that all the "real" characters (ie the characters in the story) exist in. ROB 1 is likely someone running the computer, perhaps for anthropological reason, perhaps because they're bored. ROB 2 is unrelated to ROB 1, but for one reason or another, has managed to add a virus program to ROB 1's simulation, causing problems. There are at least 2 viruses that JonBuck has discussed; one that changes gender, and one that changes people into furries, we could, however, imagine that there may have been other viruses in the past, that eventually ROB 1 removed. For example, Atlantis might have been real, and so might have the Greek/etc gods. Atlantians were gifted technology beyond what they should have, and ROB 1 deleted the island to save the program, ROB might have also deleted the Gods, for whatever reason, etc. I'm just speculating here. Now, either ROB can't remove the virus like it did the other problems, or it realized that altering reality was screwing with the program's purpose (such as anthropological study) So rather than delete the TG or TF viruses, ROB 1 created a program to try and mitigate the virus's effects. This program is what causes the history editing (etc).
:Both these viruses exist within the programing of the Computer, but not on a level that would appear to anyone in the program. It's important to remember that time doesn't necessarily pass like it does within the computer; the virus could get it's work done in a nanosecond. Everything else, the sickness, the slow change, all these might be part of the mitigation program's efforts to prevent anyone from changing in public, and to change so suddenly they lose their minds, nor without warning. But there's no reason to think that this computer virus is operating through something like an actual virus, or that the changes are visible on a cell level before the change occurs, even in those showing the signs of the change.
:But again, this is just me talking, not Buck. But I do strongly suggest you hold off writing too much more until Jon has a chance to review your story, or else you might very well find yourself writing something based on ideas that JonBuck doesn't like/want in his setting.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: For Honeymane It is really difficult to hit a moving target. I have not seen in any of the stories and discussions or JonBuck's guidlines about prior activity of ROB. As for ROB1, ROB2, ....ROBN, only one master computer has been mentioned and only one ROB virus. In my understanding, the main comupter has created a SIMULATION. The main computer is infected with a much smaller and more limited "few lines of code" virus, that the beings on one planet in the SIMULATION call the random omnipotent being, but this being is only omnipotent comparted to us, not compared to the main computer. I do not see ROB having the same power to shut down the simulation, pause it, change the rules in it or perform any of the jobs the main computer does.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I see ROB as much more limited. It needs to avoid detection of the antiviral programs, it can't attract their attention, it needs to work by stealth, it is a virus after all, it can't do things that say, "here I am!". And this all follows from things JonBuck has indicated. If he wants to say ROB = main computer in all powers, then well, fine, but he has not done so. He has not defined the motives of ROB or the main computer. when asked, he has said, " I dunno". Given that void, since I need to write in that setting, I find myself creating possible motives for them in my mind.
:It makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, but it helps me limiting ROB to viral powers and behaviors, not mainfraim abilities. A virus has 2 main goals, to keep itself alive and to reproduce itself. ROB may or may not have the second goal, but it will have the first. While doing this in any enviornment, it may cause side effects. Imagine ROB as a biological virus, and a living cell as the simulation that is growing inside a body that is the mainframe. At one time ROB was outside the cell, in the body (mainframe) where lots of antibodies (antiviral programs) were hunting for it. By entering the cell, it is now hidden from the body's defenses. However, if the cell gets sick or dies(ROB crashes the cell simulation) before ROB has either left the cell or reached a state of reproduction where that is desireable, then the body will just devower the cell and grow a new one. So in my scenario, perhaps ROB realized that the purpose of the simulation was about to be achieved, and since ROB is not ready to reproduce, it is messing with the simulation, hyjacking it as a virus hyjacks the DNA of a Cell, to keep the simulation alive longer than it would otherwise, so that it won't reach the conditions for termination, until it can make other copies of itself to infect other simulations. Who knows, maybe with enough copies of itself it can take over the mainfraim. Alternatively, its work at transforming mankind may be the way it is going about reproducing. Alternatively, ROB might have realized the simulation was about to produce a failed reslut which would have terminated the simulation and it is acting to keep itself alive by preventing failure conditions.
:In any case it makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, JonBuck had declined to actually be clear on this, and it really does not matter. The beings in the simulations don't know this, and it is difficult to think of any way they could ever find out. Well actually I could, because I am like that. One way would be if ROB tells them, and since Jonbuck said no comunication with ROB, that won't happen. Another if the mainfram sends a COR (Correcting Omnipotent Being) into the simulation (...and God sent his only begotten son...that type of idea) and told people.
:The second story is half done, and I plan to continue writing it since I have it all layed out in my mind. Hopefully Jonbuck will read the first story and give some feedback before I finish, but I believe he will approve of both stories in any case. And if not, I will change them.
: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: *puts on peacemaker and teacher hats*
:: From what I can tell you're looking for an explicit statement of something that has been implicit in the setting design since the start...
:: Where the Solar System once sat is now a cloud of what you could call "Computronium". Inside this computer are many, many simulations. Whether these simulations are the creation of a separate physical being or the uploaded minds of people is a moot point - we'll never see the "real world". (btw, ROB could actually be an AI that was once a person...)
:: The stories all take place inside one of these simulations that has picked up a couple of viruses somewhere. One of them has been around since at least the late 70's (IIRC, this is mentioned in one of Jon's stories) and the other didn't appear until 1987. The one that showed up in 1987 - the "furry virus" - is newer and initially ROB had tried to contain it using the "Perception Filter". When it somewhat "merged" with the TG virus the simulation got a lot more unstable and ROB had to start including things in its "containment" to help combat that instability. That is the "history revision" stuff. It also is the cause of the changes to married couples with children - because it was seeing potential causes of instability (no more mother/father) and fixing it as it could.
:: There is no "ROB" actually in the simulation - think about the game "The SIMS"... In that game you are the ROB - the creator and maintainer of the simulation. And you can "Pause" the simulation, make changes and restart it. In this case at least the entirety of the solar system is part of the simulation and every time ROB has to make a change it "pauses" the simulation, makes the changes and then hits the "normal speed" button. Now... there might be some people in the world that are actually from outside the sim, but they'd never make themselves known - and they could, probably, act like the ROB and remove any evidence of themselves (outside of memories) from the sim.
:: -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 04:21, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

::: I think a lot of the problems here is a misunderstanding of the source material I'm drawing inspiration for this setting from. Honeymane and ShadowWolf have both described things well. (Though I'm going to bump the TG virus back a few more centuries). A few points.
:::: * ROB exists outside the simulation. Other ROBs are not important. The Virus is not a ROB. However, ROB isn't really a physical being either, as SW describes.
:::: * The Virus originates outside the simulation. Who and what originally made it is a moot point.
:::: * The intent of said "virus" (the term only fits loosely) is to throw a monkeywrench into ROB's simulation of our universe. The reason why it hasn't been contained is that it was created by a slightly more advanced post-Singularity Mind than ROB. Since ROB can't contain it, ROB can only mitigate.
:::: * Essentially, the two virii are intended to cause social chaos via random transformations. It doesn't exist to propagate itself to other simulations. In the first case, a "quarantine" of sorts was created via modifying the present records of those TGed to reflect their new gender. If it was true history editing neither the person transformed nor the people who knew them would remember what they'd been. What ROB is changing are just the present physical objects.
:::Honestly, go read Part 2 of Accelerando. It was originally started as short stories, so you can pick it up there. That's where a lot of the concepts for Paradise started.
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 05:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, it seems terminology is messing me up. I was under the apparently mistaken belief that ROB was the virus, and the Mainfraim running the simulation(s). I believed this because the virus was random and chainging someone to a furry is sort of mildy omnipotent. Yes, I fully agree that if ROB = Mainfraim(or AI who might have once been human) then ROB must definatly outside the simulation. My comments were consering only the virus(es) that are causing the transgender/furry transformations.
Let me call the form that can do either one or the other or both, the Random Omnipotent Virus, ROV for short so there will be no misunderstandings. I can see ROB stoping the simulation and making corections, eliminating divisions by zero and all that. However, ROV should not have those abilities, being just a lowly virus, compared to ROB. The stories I wish to write constrain ROV to using the same old laws that existed in 1987, and prior to that if there was the TG virus. The universe we live in now was supposed to be identical to that one until 1987, I would like that ROV should be handicaped a little by the rules ROB created for the simulation. A simulation is to test SOMETHING, and if you start changing the rules (ie laws of nature) your results are just not going to simulate the conditions you wanted to in the real world, where you don't have the power to change the laws of nature.
The experiments the humans are setting up in my first story will indicate only the effects being caused by ROV. If ROV is outside or inside the simulation does not really matter, but if ROV can behave just like ROB, then that study is just not going to produce anything interesting either scientifically, or plot wise. Such violations of the laws of nature might just scream at them "There really must be a god involved." and we never want them to know or suspect ROB or the true nature of ROV. To have a scientific study, I would like ROV to follow the laws of the universe, for any of the reasons described here and in prior posts. I will work out some reasons that make sense to the humans for all things happening regarding the transformations, to keep them studying and not just throw up their hands in frustration, if that is ok.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]]

== Count of Changed in 1997 ==

Hello! I'm new here, but I really like this setting and read probably most of the stories. I even made my own table in Excel to draw the changing numbers as a graphic (Also for my hometown to get a grip on the numbers). And there I noticed something:

Maybe I just missed a story or paragraph where it is explained, but shouldn't there be 1024 Changed in 1997 instead of 1028? Where do the additional 4 Furries come from? I know this is just minor, but the error is kept through the following years till the end and all the numbers are wrong (It doesn't however change the fact that 2020 is the last year).

It's not so important, but it's been bugging me since I noticed it. -- [[User:TigeR|TigeR]] 15:53, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:Check out the [[Paradise (Setting)]] page. It has all the numbers. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

:: Jon, you do have a +4 in 1997 over a strict doubling. This is what he was pointing out and asking questions about. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: And fixed! -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:37, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: This error went a heck of a lot deeper and its possible that the skew-factor introduced in 1997 effected the percentages as time went into the future - however... I fixed this by hand and then verified the figures against a program that output every power of two from zero to the 33rd. As it stands this table now has correct figures for the furry population and one can only assume that the historical figures for population are correct and the projection fits the curve correctly. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:55, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Paradise:The Soundtrack ==

Not sure about anyone else, but I find music to be a major inspiration.. Well of course it

is... the song "Strangers by Yoko Kanno" got this series off the ground did it not?

So I decided to put together a soundtrack, it's not available for download because I own

none of these songs... But if you happen to have them, you can arrange them in your iPod

Playlist, if you want.. I mean I'm not forcing ya, it's just a possibility.

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0b58V573l8 '''Yoko Kanno''' - Strangers -_Wolf's Rain - Strangers by Sori Smile-_ ] <- { The begining of ALL of this... }

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IroHea5FOj8 '''Bliss 66''' - Not Quite Paradise ] <- {''This song pretty much hits the entire series on the head... (It's from the ending of [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb2aMjprmdo Titan A.E.], damn good movie, do see it sometime)''}

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqds0B_meys '''Three Days Grace''' - Animal I Have Become]

: '''Iris''' - Goo Goo Dolls

: '''Mighty Bosstones''' - Impression That I Get

: '''Lee Brotherton''' - Dream Of An Asbolution

: '''Cash Cash''' - Speak With Your Heart

: '''Eminem''' - Beautiful

: '''Shania Twain''' - Man I Feel Like A Woman

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE9zpOyNDoA '''Chip Tha Ripper''' - SLAB Freestyle -_What Are You Inside? - Furries In A Blender_- ] <- { ''Joke YouTube Entry'' }

: '''Tears For Fears''' - Everybody Wants To Rule The World

: '''Foo Fighters''' - The Pretender

and finally:

: '''John Mayer''' - Waiting On The World To Change

I think I forgot some, but yeah, definitely these. - [[User:Hawl|Hawl]] (1/10/11, 1:55 PM)

: The new ''metadata format'' for the songlist is: %'''Artist'''% - %Songtitle% -_%YTtitle%-_ <- {%''comment''%}

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8IujL8_sMI '''Stanfour''' - For All Lovers] <- { ''My Favorite ; "...For all the Changeds, and Believers..."'' }

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4w3lPYoBX8 '''Stanfour''' - Everything Has Changed]

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjlM_RnsVE '''Skillet''' - Monster]

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-makfpBrSQ '''Three Days Grace''' - Never too late]

: -- [[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:50, 03 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Paradise (Setting)

2011-02-03T21:17:24Z

Argamis: Moved the "furry size issue" of Jetfire´s first comment to the right section.

It's an interesting setting, what I've read so far, and I've got an idea or two percolating that may or may not come to fruition. A seed is trying to sprout for an idea starting in '05 and going forward. - [[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 19:50, 10 January 2008

---

After the 2011 crash, the setting lost the most newer storys and the enrichment data inside their related Talk_Pages.
Maybe we can get back these with this -> [http://www.archive.org/web/web.php Internet Wayback Machine] in the far-far future (when the data gets very very old, its then available there).

If the "Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like an array that canalize the flow of "hot ideas" through it´s "insulated tube-rules" (preventing the "leaking and cooling" of the new storys in their necesary "plot-curves" and "bottlenecks-dramas"). . .
Then the "Talk:Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like the Virtual Remote Control Panel for that powergrid. When a new "hot idea" pop up in the wrong place or it´s going the wrong direction, a colision alarm sound here!.
The "already resolved discussions" divert automatically the issue, and for the real original new ones, at last offer a series of nearby "exhaust valves" designed for the protection of the "global setting" system.
:--[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 21:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Theory on how the Change 'spreads' ==

Been thinking about how it might spread, such that we have a higher proportion of Changed in NA, but not leaving the rest of the world out, and I think I know how.

The 'computer virus' that Changes people, uses the RDF to spread itself. Our 'program's' own protection method is also spreading the damages.

Basically, I am guessing that if the RDF needs to kick in on you, then you are passively 'infected'.

Then, when August 17th comes around, the Virus triggers itself, but it for whatever reason can only copy itself for every previously Changed person. (The Doubling effect), and it can only affect people that have been passively infected, ie people who have had the RDF kick in on them.

The goal of the virus is to spread as far as it can, so it takes the number of new Changed it can, and spreads it more or less evenly across the available (RDF-affected) population.

So the first Changed is in Chicago (I think). Through the year until the next Change, she will encounter thousands of people, even in passing, which triggers the RDF on them and passively infects them.

Come August, 1988, the next Changed will be picked randomly from those thousands of people, and now we'll have 2 people spreading the RDF virus. 1989, a big chunk of Chicago has probably had the RDF trigger at least once, not to mention some tourists and other visitors to the city.

In 89, we get 2 more Changed, and one of them could possibly be in a different random city, just because he'd been to Chicago in the past 2 years and unknowingly seen a Changed, and a new nest of RDF-field affected people starts up.

European and Asian and Oceanic outbreaks could happen in years to come as the number of tourists and business people from those reasons travel into North America and begin to be fielded and infected themselves.

The 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City probably 'infected' most of the people who were around and watching, meaning that by then (if not before) pretty much anyone has a chance to be Changed.

It also means that truly isolated areas of the world (South Pacific islands, isolated Amazonian tribes, etc) could potentially be unchanged after the 2020 deadline; but any encounter at all with a Changed would likely Change them immediately and spread like wildfire through the village)

And while the RDF may 'fail' at some point, it'll probably still be around in a less effective form, trying to maintain some stability and spreading the Change. --[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]
:I'll give that some thought. It's somewhat similar to something I already had in mind. Perhaps those who have the RDF fail completely will be much more likely to change the next year, or they might even change out-of-phase. In any case, once they figure out that it's like a communicable disease, and everyone is already 'infected', the remaining humans will go nuts. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 12:35, 27 January 2008 (EST)

== Change and disabilities? ==

I keep forgetting to bring this up on IRC, but how do people (as in writers and other interested people in this setting) think disabilities would be affected by the change? Both Mental and Physical?

Would a paraplegic who lost his legs in an accident regrow them if he changed? Would he regain the use of them if they weren't lost but just disabled? (back injury)? What about false teeth, deafness, blindness, etc?

What if the cause was not from a physical accident, but was viral or bacterial in nature? Some disease struck them blind? Would they stay blind?

And what if the disabilities were genetic? Would those genetic flaws still show in the new form?

Finally, what about mental disabilities? Could the Change 'cure' Alzheimer's? Would it affect someone who is literally a brain dead vegetable on life support?

If it does have curative properties, I suspect we'll start seeing more and more miracle cures (assuming they can survive the flu) in the years to come. Which may imply that there'll be a push in the early to mid 2010's to just keep someone alive as long as possible in the home they Change and are cured/fixed.

Thoughts?

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 11:00, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:I think there are good arguments to be made for some healing properties of the Change, but I wouldn't make it go all out. A person missing a limb should still be missing a limb after the change (I have in mind a scene with a one-armed pianist who goes monkey and starts playing with his feet).

:When it comes to things like Alzheimer's, that is a much more difficult choice. I don't see mental retardation being suddenly healed by the Change, as that is a birth defect (and such things happen in animals too). But progressive diseases may backtrack, even if the conditions begin to return over time. That could make an even more painful story, somebody suffering from Alzheimer's, who Changes and now recognizes all his family again. But after a year or so everything starts to slip away again...

:Anyway, the whole keeping folks alive and hoping for a Change could make a good dynamic too. I just think there's a lot fo possibilities to consider before we make a decision on this. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:24, 4 February 2008 (EST)
::I'm inclined to do as Matthias suggests. It's more or less what I had in mind. However, one of the things that the Change does is it puts everyone in very good health. Even being a 300 pound female bear, CM is in very good shape. It will cure some ailments, and put chronic diseases into remission. Those developments will confuse the medical community enough without regrowing limbs or curing Down's Syndrome. But if you've read the latest Tall Tales, ROB is being forced to act more openly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 15:40, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:What happens to medical devices like heart pacemakers or hip replacements that were implanted in people before they changed? --[[User:JeniSkunk|Jenifur Charne]] 20:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::That's basically an open-ended question. I'm going to leave the answer to that one unsaid because I think it'd be a good Plot Point in a story. A furry episode of ''House'' maybe? --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::Late into the discussion, but better late than never. : ) Anyway, what about things like fillings and caps on teeth? Going to a dentist would be interesting. Going another step, outside medical devices wouldn't fit anymore and would bring up some unique delimas. What about people with prosthetics? If someone turns into a bear, I'm sure their leg isn't going to fit anymore, yet Unknown will wonder why they make such a claim all of a sudden. Lots of places to go with these stories. [[User:Tinbender|Tinbender]] 21:24, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Hey, not really sure on any of the points raised, have to give it some thought. One thing to consider though is can anthro's act as a bridge to humans for viruses that currently only affect animals?--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 23:35, 10 February 2008 (EST)

== A mortal analysis of Paradise ==

Lets me see if I get some of the details right.

There is a post-singularity Uber-computer, that when projected into 3-space, has the same consistency as humanity's combined thumbnail and happens to be running a simulation of the events leading up to its own creation. Secondly, it gets infected by a super-bug/virus that makes borg nano-probes look overly large and cumbersome. Said post-singularity, sentient, ROB-type entity/ virus changes some lines of code (if such things can be referred to as such) in reference to the people in the simulation, in and around the vicinity of Chicago (maybe the super-bug's designers had way-distant ancestors from there, or whose ancestors had a grudge against the place). The Uber-comp, in a flash of inspiration counters with the 'firewall-from-not-heck', or RDF as we understand it. The ROB is still successful with its dastardly and despicable plan to make the simulated history end differently.

That I get as far as it can be understood by a three-dimensional entity not particularly versed in post-singularity, multi-dimensional physics and computational theory.

The RDF, The Veil, The "Really-Annoying-Mess-Up-Everyones-Lives" Field, appears to start collapsing or 'twisting' in several personal accounts. In fact, it would seem that there are certain individuals who have appeared to figure out means of 'gazing-past' the gaps in said previously mentioned field even though they do not have one of their own. Yes it has been theorized that they will soon fall victim to the ROB, however, consider that all of this is in one sense mere coding (albeit it happens to be far more complex than that), and that said people are taking advantage of 'bugs' in the code. How many bugs are there? Is it possible for someone (probably a changed, or mad scientist) to 'tune' or 'tinker' with the field, probably no more than tweaks to appearance or color? I know the Primary Engineer Of This Work has stated that there are no 'powers', but then again, this is all just code, and hackers can sometimes be just mortal.

Just a thought or two. I should probably stop this monologue before a super spy shows up.
~midon~

:You're pretty close overall, though the simulation doesn't necessarily have to be of the ROB's own creation. Human Earth could be something It came up with all by Itself. Another book that's similar to what I've come up with here is ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_(novel) Darwinia]''. Someone suggested that the best thing for the ROB to do is to restore from backup. The thing is, these are still people. ROB doesn't have a moral problem with allowing them to die within the sim, but will act to protect both itself and its people from an outside threat. Hence the RDF and other measures.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 17:46, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Thinking far future... ==

First, to make it VERY clear, I am NOT thinking of any stories or anything set in the 2020 period yet. I've just been thinking of how the world may be like by then, as the last half are about to change.

I suspect there would be a mix of celebration (the last humans are joining us!) and mourning (humans will no longer be as they were). Regionally, there will probably be searches for the "last human baby", the ones born days/hours before the last Aug 17 change; they'd probably be local celebrities, similar to "New Years Babies"

And in 2021, the nervousness would start. Is the change source gone? Is it mutating? Are we going to change further? Or into something else now? For the Changed Generation, that little shiver of fear every August 17th will probably persist until they are all gone.

All that assumes civilization hasn't fallen apart by then of course. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:42, 25 February 2008 (EST)

== Summer Olympics ==

This was nagging at the back of my mind a bit, but I finally nailed it down to actually check dates:

:"The 2008 Summer Olympics, officially known as the Games of the XXIX Olympiad, will be celebrated from August 8, 2008 to August 24, 2008".

For the record, the 2004 Olympics also just straddled the Change day, having started on Aug 13th. No other Summer Olympics have straddled Change day, but the 1996 games ended just before it, and the Paralympic Games that year did straddle the Change day.

The 2012 games in London curiously have a break between the end of the Olympics on Aug 12, 2012, and the start of the Paralympics on Aug 29.

Just something to think about for writers out there. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:The Change takes place right in the middle of the Olympics. All it takes is for one or two athletes to change to gum up the works. These people are already in top physical shape, too. But what happens when a swimmer becomes a dolphin, an otter, or perhaps something that doesn't swim well? I don't think the RDF can handle becoming as large as a rhino. They'll still displace an awful lot of water when they splash in.

:I'll have to mention this in Open Secrets.

:--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:53, 27 February 2008 (EST)

::At least the illness will be a bit of a cover. Depending on how many Changed athletes there are, (both active and new Changed), the illness could be used to skip out on some events out of necessity.

::Still the pressure to perform, even if their form is inappropriate for the sport (A Bull trying to do a polevault or the triathlon in general? A bear for gymnastics? A Mouse in weightlifting? ) will be intense

::There would probably be a lot of discussion when a star athlete suddenly isn't performing as well as they did before.

::Of course, a few years after that, the Beijing Olympics here will probably end up with a * like the LA and Moscow Olympics, as people find out about the Change and the number of ringers (otters in swimming events, felines and primates in gymnastics, gazelles and cheetahs in track events, bears and bulls in weight lifting, etc...) semi-intentionally sent by the various countries. We could very well see TTC-level problems happening in Olympic Village.

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== What happens ''after'' 2020? ==

Point one: Computer programs are never ''intrinsically'' equipped with an off-switch. Rather, a shutdown condition must be explicitly coded into a program -- and any program which ''lacks'' an explicit shutdown condition, will continue to chug merrily along until something hardware-ish gets in the way.

Point two: The Change is the result of a 'furry virus", ''i.e.,'' a '''computer program'''.

2020 is when the entire planetary population will be furry... but who's to say the 'furry virus' won't ''continue'' to do its thing, Changing people year in and year out, with each year's quantity of Changes being double that of the year before? We know that being Changed is ''not'' an absolute protection against the 'furry virus' -- the setting rules themselves ''explicitly allow'' previously-Changed people to get hit with another dose of Change, after all -- so ''either'' (a) the 'furry virus' ''does'' have an explicitly-coded off-switch, or else (b) starting in 2020, an ever-increasing number of people are going to end up Changing ''two or more times in any given year.''

If the 'furry virus' ''has'' a built-in off-switch, that begs the question of what, exactly, its shutdown condition ''is.'' Does it stop spreading/infecting when there's no unchanged Human left, is it waiting for some specific event or combination of events before it quits, or what? Perhaps the guy who wrote the 'furry virus' did so with the specific intent of encouraging ROB to make [insert specific changes here] in ROB's virtual world, such that the results of those changes are the virus's 'off-switch'?

If, on the other hand, the 'furry virus' has ''no'' built-in brakes, things can get weird, fast. People have already floated the notion of Changes happening "out of season"; what if these 'unscheduled' Changes are merely a harbinger of things to come, in which people can be re-zapped at any time of year, an arbitrarily large number of times per year? It may be instructive, or at least amusing, to extrapolate the data given in "The Numbers", and divide each year's expected number of Changes by the expected population for that year: In 2020, there's 1.12 Changes per person (perhaps every human being Changes, regardless of their current state, and there's a 12% chance of one guy Changing ''twice?).'' Since we're basically talking about a doubling function, it only takes until 2024 for every ex-human to be an involuntary member of the Change Of The Month Club (because there's a touch over 17 Changes per person that year), and the Change Of The '''Day''' Club starts up in 2029 (during which year there's a bit less than 514 Changes per person per year). In 2034, the extrapolated number of Changes per person for that year is significantly over 15,000 (which works out to about 7/4 of a Change ''per hour,'' every hour, for every human being); by 2040, we hit 1.75 Changes per ''minute;'' 2046 is when every human being starts to hit 1 Change per ''second.''

To repeat what I said above: Things get weird, fast.

Obviously, the above figures are ridiculous, since they're derived from mindless extrapolation of an exponential curve. Perhaps the most sensible way to go is to presume that ROB manages to ''do'' something about the metatstasizing 'furry virus' no later than 2025 or so. In any case, one hopes said figures at least provide a bit of food for thought... [[User:Cubist|Cubist]] 05:03, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

== Change and the Media ==

It's probably a sign that I watch WAY too much TV, but it's a theme that's been in the back of my mind (man that back area's getting mighty crowded with ideas). As the Change progresses, even with the Veil in place, more and more effects of the Change will start showing up in other ways, and it will become more and more 'public' even if the Unchanged won't really know what is going on. I suspect TV shows especially will begin to show a lot of these.

This is just some of my rambling thoughts on what the TV Cable signals might be sending to the screens of the Changed near-Future.

Reality TV in all its forms will probably be the first to really start showing the effects of the Changed, since they tend to have the fastest turnaround time and the most contact with non-actors. Court shows (like I wrote in my short story case) will have more and more cases of Changed vs Norms and even weird Changed vs Changed cases. "He won't share the nail clippers!" "She gifted me the money for the vacation to Alaska in January")

Gameshows also will start having more Changed contestants, especially popular ones like Price is Right.

And then you have the Survivor types. Show's like "Top Model" and "Bachelor(ette)" and "Blind Date" (especially given the Change's habit of giving the Changed Eye-turning bodies) will probably have the most Changed on a show early on (whether intentionally or unintentionally).

Home Makeover shows may start seeing even weirder designs as designers/homeowners remake rooms to give room for antlers or bigger buttons for hoof fingers and such. (We thought Frank's designs on Trading Spaces were weird BEFORE he Changed... :P )

Amazing Race may have a Changed Team soon; a few Changed in the Big Brother House (probably intentionally put in there by a Changed Studio staffer), and the next Survivor or two would probably have some contestants.

Once the Field comes down, I fully expect CBS to roll out a "Furries vs Normals" Survivor while they can.

Now onto more tasteful TV. (arguably :P )

Cartoons? (what few new ones that are made) will likely start having more and more of a furry bend to them. Hallowe'en specials may turn 'human' toons into furry ones as experiments to transition shows.

Soaps? Expect Change stories fairly soon I dare say. I don't watch them myself, but from what I've heard of some storylines they've done in the past, the Change isn't all that strange. These writers will probably be chaffing at the restrictions of the Field the most.

Sitcoms will probably start getting Changed in-jokes fairly quickly as more Changed writers and actors come on staff. Some of the jokes may verge on Veil-breaking too, but viewers would discount as visual FX.

Procedurals/Drama's, business as normal but more Change-related stories. Maulings and gorings investigated on CSI's (along with strange fingerprints/bootprints, hair samples, etc...), Without a Trace investigating people who disappear after Change Day, maybe even a TG mystery. Numb3rs maybe touching on the Change rate (imagine Chris brought in as an advisor for an ep ? :) ). House or ER dealing with a Changed patient and/or Changed doctors/nurses.

And finally (for now) Sci Fi/Fantasy shows will probably find themselves in a very difficult position. On the one hand, they'd be ideal to start exploring the Change itself. On the other hand, as long as the Field is in effect, they can't really explore them since they'd have to turn normals into Furry's (or dress furry's in fursuits). Plus, a show's setting may not exactly be ideal for adjusting to the Change. "SG-1/Atlantis" may be able to adjust (turn it into an Ori curse or something), but Terminator would have a harder time. Heroes could probably pull it off, but BSG? Unlikely. (Imagine them finding 'Earth' but it's a Furry Earth... Hmmm...)

Anyways, that's just some of my rambling thoughts on the TV of the near future, for what its worth.

:There's a simple way to make furries show up in Television. Simply use the polarized lenses as featured in Open Secrets on the video camera units. The image of the furries would pass through the polarized lenses onto the film. The film would record the true image in the same way that people would see the true image. Boom, RDF circumvented. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:26, 28 January 2009 (EST)

:: True those would work. But everyone involved for those scenes would have to Know or questions would be raised. Depending on the scene and production. (Thouhg some could be handwaved, as long as the producer/editors Know. "Bob's gonna play the part of a man-rat for this scene. We'll CG-replace him in Editing afterward"

::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 12:33, 28 January 2009 (EST)

::: Well, at the very least, the cameraman is going to be in the know fast! Actually, I could see something like this being done once things go public. We could have a documentary on the early Changed (while you can still get human actors!), and you'd have some cameras with the filter on it and some without so you could show what the Changed sees and what the unsuspecting humans around him see. --[[User:98.236.12.68|98.236.12.68]] 05:14, 29 January 2009 (EST)

:::: That is happening to some extent, though not with the filters yet. Shiloh (and her new boyfriend newly Changed this year) are doing what they can to document the Change and how it affects lives as it happens (on the side from their main jobs), and I'm sure she's far from alone on this.

:::: Once more Documentary makers get ahold of this and it goes public, I'm sure there will be more too.

::::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:33, 29 January 2009 (EST)

== Furries in Space? ==

OK Time for even more thoughts from me. :) Endeavor's launch last night triggered this thought.

I'm not going to elaborate, but is anyone watching the ISS crew for change symptoms? Or the shuttle crew if they're up? A Change up there could be Veil breaking just because of the amount of attention and lack of privacy those people have. (not to mention the extreme circumstances they'd be under).

The Change itself could very well spell the end of Manned space flight for the next few decades in the end.

Not sure if it would spell the end of manned space flight but yeah even just an examination of the air filter would find stuff that couldn't have gotten up there any other way.--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 19:16, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

:I'm sure it'd be the end of manned space flight for quite some time simply for economic reasons if nothing else. This is going to be rather disruptive and there'll probably be a bit of a budget pinch. [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

==The Reality Distortion Field is Real ==

Sadly, not the one you have in mind: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/18/2117208 :) [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

== Bats? ==

Just a question about the species: I've noticed you put aside birds for now, but what about bats?--[[User:142.68.130.19|142.68.130.19]] 23:52, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:Bats will put a huge strain on the Veil. If/when they do show up, it might be coming down by then anyway. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:36, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Farming in Paradise ==

Just shooting an idea in here for later. [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080410153658.htm This is the technology] widely deployed it the Paradise setting. But put the clock back ten years (1997 discovery, widespread global deployment by 2008). Biochar/agrichar. With any luck, the Green Revolution will be replaced with the Black Gold Revolution quickly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== BioFuels ==

Jon, you're beginning to scare me a bit. :P

This was just on Slashdot this morning: [http://www.utexas.edu/news/2008/04/23/biofuel_microbe/ New Source for Biofuels Discovered by Researchers At The University of Texas at Austin]

Basically, some bacteria that can make cellulose which can be turned to fuel, and the cellulose can be harvested without harming the bacteria.
--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 06:10, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

:I read about this yesterday. They hope to increase production efficiency 17-fold because otherwise, you'd have to cover the ''entire'' Midwest with this. Unfortunately it won't happen fast enough to prevent the shortages I know are coming.

:I read about this stuff every day. I mean, ''every'' day. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:19, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Another bit of news: [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece "Scientists find bugs that eat waste and excrete petrol."] --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 11:12, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== The Chicago Ghost Killer ==

After having seen countless videos of Persona 3 on youtube, and having played the .hack//GU games, and having read about this setting repeatedly, this idea was born out of my skull. It doesn't really fit with the setting per-say, (people dealing with expected changes in their lives and the changing of culture as truth becomes harder and harder to keep hidden), but it's still interesting.

Imagine if once the number of furries hits the thousand mark or close to it (1997), a strange series of murders begin in Chiago and wander outwards. To normal police and investigators these people have -nothing- in common, just random innocent people. But the furries know that every single person killed was a furry! Now this is where things start to get weird.

When seen by furries, the killer is a lanky laid back twenty something raven haired young man whose expression almost always remains passive wearing semi-formal dark clothes with a revolver in one hand and spare bullets in the opposite pocket.

When the police just about anyone else whose effected by the perception filter see him, they see 'Average Joe' or 'Face You Can't Help But Forget' and never ever notice the weapon he's holding unless he hits them with it or shoots them or something just as drastic. It is also is picked up by metal detectors the same as any metal gun. In other words, his existence, is like the existence of furriness to normal humans, his existence effects them, but they can't notice him directly.

This guy always knows a furry when he sees one regardless of media or medium, or reads one, this include file records of people TGed by the virus. When he spots one or finds out about one, he calmly location that person, in order of him learning about them, and shoot that person in the head without fanfare then simply move on to the next one.

Physically his strength and speed are all perfectly average human, meaning a bear or tiger furry could easy tear him apart.

Strange thing is that if profiled, no records of him will turn up, anywhere!

Also, he might even begin to appear DIFFERENTLY to people who are under the effect of the perception filter. He can't appear as a furry, and can NEVER EVER appear as a precise person (he can't appear as someone's mother or brother). But he can ultimately change how people look at him, they see a five year old girl with a teddy bear opposed to a man with a revolver even if he STILL can't fit in a toy car for the life of him and that 'bear' might go off if someone else 'hugs' it, (which he'd avoid someone doing at all posts). He could also appear as a fire fighter or police officer if he gets clever enough. Though furries will -always- see through this disguise. Along with any human whose able to see furries without effort.

The Chicago Ghost Killer never attacks non-changed humans, and will never take a shot if there's a reasonable chance of shooting a non-changed person.

He travels by mundane methods, he always travels by the most practical and speedy method and always has the correct change or ticket (this is not an illusion). His taxi, train, or airplane never crash.

If detained for questioning, he might just walk straight out of the police station unless some of the cops are furries. If stripped of his weapon and ammo next time he shows up he'll have a new set perfectly identical to the last one down to the imperfections in the casing.

Now this is where things get ambiguous. I don't know if he's killed he just appears in Chicago the day after the change again each year, or weather two different people with abilities similar to his appear in his stead these armed with a crossbow and another one shot distance weapon.

Since deleting the entire universe is not an option, The Chicago Ghost Killer might be an emergency fail safe to try and cut off the infected flesh from the system.

His name comes from where he started killing (strangely the same place as the changes began) and the fact that to normal humans he IS like a ghost, there yet not there but decidedly felt.

I know this doesn't really fit with the setting at all, but I just had to share it with the only people who'd appreciate it.

Thank you.

- Alex Warlorn. 2008 06 15

:And his name is Agent Johnathan Walker Smith, is it? Seems like a Matrix Agent to me... (unsigned comment)
::Actually I don't think he'd -have- a name, or even know the true nature of the world, he'd just know what he -had- to do and how to do it and how he can do it.-- Alex Warlorn

== Octuplets born in California ==

Things that make you go Hmmmm....

8 babies at once
Planning to breast feed them all.
Names not being released (yet).

Could we have a changed couple hiding out there from the glare of the media spotlight? :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:25, 27 January 2009 (EST)

=='''Future RDF Failure'''==

I'm starting to work out ideas about how the RDF would fail. My current thinking is that it will work on a small scale first. Visually, there would be a "refraction", like seeing your own eyes through your glasses. Or your leg halfway in a pool. This is the "Refraction Effect". These are places where the RDF has been removed, like a section of glass, revealing the Real World underneath. It's gone. The visual effect makes it clear a border's been crossed. I'm not sure ''when'' this is going to happen. Probably sometime near the US Gov wants to go public. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 07:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

===Weirdness Censor?===

I've been thinking about an "RDF Lite" that could basically act as a Weirdness Censor instead of the full blown see-furries-as-humans version that exists right now. There'd still be social upheaval, but not the civilization-ending type that would most likely happen. I'm very likely going to do this in After Hours, but I want to do it right. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

==The "Posthuman" World ==

In order to differentiate this setting from WoC more, I'm going to keep a certain number of regular humans in the furry world that results when the virus runs its course. Same rules as other furry types as far as parent-child species. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 19:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

:No offense, but that feels like a cop-out to me. As someone else pointed out, a computer virus is NOT going to simply 'burn itself out' a computer virus continues like any program infinitely unless it's directly ordered to. Once it runs out of humans to transform, it'll start to transform furries into other species, and become even more chaotic as time progresses. I just feels cheap the virus suddenly just stops, and it doesn't make sense form a programming point of view either since it would open MANY MORE cans of worms anyway. -- Alex Warlorn June 15 2009

::Okay. How to address this? A lot of my ideas for this setting comes from Charles Stross's work, which can get pretty mind-bending at times. ''Accelerando, Glasshouse, Singularity Sky'', and ''Iron Sunrise'' all come to mind. One of my basic assumptions is that the Furry Virus is itself sentient/sapient, but it's not ''quite'' as smart as the transhuman intelligence running the Simulation Space that is our universe (down to the Planck Length).

::The RDF was a last-ditch effort to maintain the experiment as it was. We're all a bunch of microbes, as far as ROB is concerned. But It's not the type of Being to just chuck the whole experiment into the incinerator and start over. At this point ROB has scrapped the original experiment in favor of trying to prevent our little petri dish universe from going completely bad. So, 1) contain the Furry Virus, and 2) prevent it from doing any more damage beyond 2020 by creating a specific End State. The FV remains, but it becomes an uncommon chronic disease.

::Frankly, now that furries and the TGed have been Outed ROB may even stop the history editing. More obvious actions include: Refilling dead oilfields, creating social conditions so humans aren't really surprised at the Change. There are probably all kinds of countermeasures ROB has done that I haven't thought of in order to keep people from going ''crazy crazy'' and incinerating their own petri dish. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::I was thinking of a similar idea, but in a programming context as opposed to a biological one, and ''very'' limited. Think of every person as an element of an array, i.e. Human[]. An algorithm designed to change the values of every element, like the furry virus is doing, would most likely go from 0 to some constant POPULATION_HUMAN. In that case, ROB might be able to circumvent the effects for the virus for a select few by assigning people to special values: NULL, NaN, -1, MAX_INT, INFINITY, or other predefined numbers, even those that aren't considered "special" to humans. The purpose of this would be to preserve ''some'' unaltered "data" for purposes not important to us, and it can't be done for all humans because of the effort or memory required to "manually" fix so many values.

:::Conversely, perhaps ROB will let the virus run its course so It can then safely run a variation of the virus to turn everyone back into humans. That would be another interesting take: when the world's furry in 2020, how will everyone feel when they find out they'll all be human again by about 2055, depending on population, and perhaps if the same thing happens in cycles? ...

:::...Or if it turns out that life has been this way for a long, ''long'' time. Thinking back to what ROB has been able to do, this is easily within Its power. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 05:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::ROB figures it's best to let the virus run its course then neutralize it like I've described. Perhaps ROB's reworking the Experiment to account for the new changes.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Colons! Colons as far as the eye can see! Ahaha.

:::::One little problem I had with ''Accelerando'' (though I did indeed love it in all other respects) was how completely unfathomable the Higher Beings were. You never could figure out what their reasons were for anything…and in fact, in all their interactions with the remnants of pre-Singularity humanity, they mostly seemed to delight in "poking the anthill". Sending boatloads of recreations of historical and fictitious characters out to that space station just to mess with humanity's minds. And not only could you not ask them why, you wouldn't be able to understand their answer if you did. Hence, one of the things that you hope you learn in the end—the question of "why?"—is forever unanswered.

:::::It would be kind of nice to have some of the characters eventually be able to confront ROB and the virus and ask them what the deal was, but I'm not holding my breath any. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 06:22, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::::I'm very, ''very'' careful not to jump the shark. But at the very least ROB does have some empathy for us microbes. While ROB does do some "resimulation" for TGed folk, it absolutely ''will not'' alter memories because that would cause personality death.

::::::Paradise is more similar too ''[http://www.amazon.com/Darwinia-Novel-Different-Twentieth-Century/dp/0812566629 Darwinia]'' than ''Accelerando''. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Another possibility I just thought about: perhaps this isn't the act of a virus at all. Instead this is the fix to an ancient "Human Virus" that infected the universe, and it's just restoring the original experiment (or whatever). Or if you ''really'' want to throw people off: humanity ''is'' the virus itself, and this is how ROB is solving the problem. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 07:25, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

::Well, to be fair, this is a post-Singularity virus. Nobody ever said it was strictly one-function only. For all we know, it may have a behavioral change programmed into it. "Take Z action until condition A is met, then switch to taking Y action until condition B is met, etc." Or heck, the virus itself may be a sentient/sapient digital life form with free will, fully able to "change its mind" when it wants to. Certainly there is some intelligent agency at work behind the Reality Distortion Field that has already shown the ability to change its own behavior or react to changes in infected people's situations (changing TG furs' "ghosts"—and all extant records—from male to female when they get pregnant, for instance). No reason the virus can't be the same way. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 23:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

:How is that going to work? I'm not sure how humanity can propagate by the "same rules" as other furry types given that it's been established humans and furres are not able to interbreed. Perhaps there might be an inverse of the Sleeping Sickness (a Waking Sickness? :) which causes furries to randomly mutate back into human in addition to the other types of furry form? —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 22:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

::Two thoughts: 1) In 2021 there's a group of humans worldwide who don't Change. They're simply the one species among many. After this point they can breed with furres because the RDF is down anyway. Perhaps they can already do this in Bubbled areas in 2010. 2) Human forms can be a recessional trait that shows up on occasion, between two furres.

::Furry babies already look ''very'' human due to a type of neoteny. Even the herbivores like horses and deer have very stubby muzzles. It looks more like a mask when they're born. Within two years those muzzle stubs grow the "baby animal" proportions, then as normal. They're generally more thinly furred for those first two years also. I keep thinking of puppies. No matter what the breed, they all look ''extremely'' similar when newborn. Same will be true in this setting. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, TG and TF will continue. I'm thinking of something akin to Matthias' character, with random changes. It'll be considered a chronic disease. And the severe forms ''can'' kill you. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Possibly the first occurance of ROB ==

As I mentioned when I introduced him, ROB (Random Omnipotent Being) comes from some other message boards I regularly view/visit. Well someone seems to have found what may have been the first occurrence of ROB. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=53955] Pretty humble beginnings for him if you ask me. :) (His brother, COROB (Crossover Obsessed Random Omnipotent Being) similarly had humble beginnings a month or so later. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=55397] )

== The RDF and extra extremities. ==

Assume here that the RDF is functioning normally and hasn't broken down. Normal humans can't feel the extra extremities of the Changed, like tails and horns - they just feel empty air. But what would another Changed see if they were to look at a normal human attempting to touch a Changed's tail? Would they see the human seemingly passing their hand through the tail of the Changed? [[User:CNash|CNash]] 23:52, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

:I think you've got it wrong. Extra extremities can still be physically felt. The RDF is like a holographic cloak around the changed - it doesn't actually have an effect on their form. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 00:57, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:Shadow is basically correct. Their hand wouldn't pass through empty air. They would meet some weird resistance, but they'd forget about it in a short time. Other Changed would see them touch the tail they can't see. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:: I was going by a line in "Made Alone"; CM's diary entry: ''I say, `Oh yeah, here, grab my tail'. He humors me, but he cannot feel it. I feel him put his hand on it, but he just doesn't feel it.'' - I haven't yet read through all the stories and I'm going chronologically. [[User:CNash|CNash]] 11:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:::If there's one thing I've learned about running a shared setting is to ''not'' demand ironclad continuity. I always allow authors leeway for dramatic purposes, and I don't mind if events don't quite match up. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:19, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

::::Given that is the earliest described Change event, I just assumed that the Veil was stronger back then, and since lessened to the extent of allowing feeling of extremities. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 07:32, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

== Glitch ==

Assertion one: Universe of Paradise setting is mathmatically generated by advanced post-singularity computer. Assertion two: Pre-singularity computers have demonstrated randomized renumbering of internal programing due to outside factors. These renumberings are identified as "glitches," having no basis in programming like bugs and viruses. Assumption: Post singularity computer operates with similar if heavily advanced hardware as pre-singularity computer. Conclusion: Randomized renumberings of programming will occur independently of programming. That is to say, it is not inconceivable that somewhere, a coffee cup on the table is suddenly on the counter. Or that an ant becomes a different species of ant. Or that a gray-eyed man one day has blue eyes. Perhaps these small changes are common and constant. -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 05:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

== Species Expansion ==

We have already seen at least one Elephant man. Is the Furry Virus, as it expands, drawing from a larger gene base? And if so, when would the first nonmammalians arise? Personally, I'm expecting crocs in the near future. Perhaps even 2010... -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 22:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

:The setting is mammals only. Reptiles and birds have very different reproductive biologies. Birds wouldn't be able to fly and cold-blooded creatures can't support a human-like brain and its energy requirements. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== An observation ==

From what I've read, the 'computer simulation' theory is just that- a theory. There's no point blank evidence that this is what's happening within the storyline, and, while I obviously shouldn't just stroll in and rewrite things, but I'd ask the main participators in this storyline to keep this in mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- (note added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC))

:Jon is the creator of the setting and he has final say in these things... He has not ruled on this yet, but I think he will if it becomes a problem. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== If a person doesn't TF again next year... ==

Maybe I missed something. Is it right that if a person doesn't TF again the year after they first change, they stop changing for good? Thinking of the story's setting (computer simulation), if the change is caused by a virus, surely it could keep affcting people? If that doesn't make sense I'll expand, but surely someone knows what I'm talking about. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- signature added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] )

:First it's "bear", not "bare" - homophones are a big stumbling point for a large portion of people, so I try to help people where I can with them :)

: Second... Remember that the whole "post-singularity simulation infected by a virus" schtick is just one possible cause. Jon has said that it could be, but has not pinned it on that. If it really is a virus, then there is a possibility that you could change again 20 years down the line. However... It might be that the multi-change people are somehow an exception - like the virus leaves behind a flag saying "infected" (you'll find this with existing computer viruses, actually) and with multi-changers this flag is missing. Or it could be that the multi-changers are actually being created because of ROB trying to undo the damage done by the virus. And a third possibility is that there is no "virus" and the change is happening according to a plan setup by the people that programmed the simulation - and the multi-changers were randomly selected to be multi-changers.

:In other words... Even if you assume that the postulated "post-singularity simulation" is reality the change could be more than a virus and the limits on multiple changes could be somehow tied directly to the purposes that the simulation was created for... Anyway... I've gone on too long with this. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 19:03, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

::Ugh. I actually thought whilst typing, "that's not right, it should be bare..." blast. So much for trying to write a story if I can't do that kind of simple thing.

::Thanks for your help. I'm trying to make sure I understand the setting as best I can so I can make my story (hopefully a series, but maybe I'm being a bit ambitious) as best as possible. I'm trying to break the mould... Most characters in the Paradise setting seem to be similar. If my first attempt works, I might try one with a different character... Actually, I'd probably do it even if it didn't work :) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Just to be clear, it is a simulation running on a post-Singularity cloud of computronium. And it is a virus doing the dirty work. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:34, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:::: *GACK* - Last time I read the setting page that was still a "speculation" bit :( -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

== Human/Furry detail ==

More prattling, sorry. Bear with me (Heh. Got it right this time.).

The information on smaller details in the differences between humans and furs is irritatingly lax, and I hit a block while writing my own story stressing over an incredibly minor detail. My problem aside, I think that the lack of detail makes it awkward to write... Would two characters that changed into the same species be exactly the same anatomically? I'm not sure. A couple of stories have thrown me in that respect, mainly "A Kind of Paradise", and "Twisting the Veil". I feel like I'm having a bit of a whine actually, and should just get on with it, but right now, I feel like speaking my mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:The anatomical differences between furry species can vary, but not so much that they become incompatible with each other. This is why I didn't want to add birds/reptiles/fish/insects. They're just too different. If they're the same species, they're exactly the same. There is a variance in hair (Some have it, some don't) otherwise everyone is firmly anthro rather than, say, animal ears and tail and nothing else. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:37, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I understand why there are only mammals in the setting, personally I think it's a good choice. I wasn't really thinking about the degrees of how human/animalistic people are, but rather what traits they take on when they change. For example, I know that people have commented on changes in sounds and smells, but not sight, is sight affected? And, as for traits, I know that most species of rodents are incapable of vomiting, fox example. But would the humans be affected by this? Of course, I'm not asking for all the details, that would be ridiculous considering the number of possibilities. I just don't want to write something that doesn't follow the rules of the setting. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Actually... Things like that are, IMHO, why the 'Sleeping Sickness' bracelets have been issued. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Um, yes, those. Maybe I haven't been reading the right stories, but to the best of my knowledge, the bracelets are to let doctors know (provided they already know about the whole thing) what you changed into. Have I missed something? (I feel like I'm asking too many questions. Sorry.) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::::There is a mention in one of a changed that was a species to which aspirin is toxic being killed by a doctor prescribing aspirin... I just don't remember which story that was. The stories about Doctor Clay have most of the good information about how changed can suffer from problems/illnesses incumbent to their species. (IIRC there is a judge that starts suffering from a problem only seen in horses - and he's a horse...) -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::::The idea behind the "Sleeping Sickness" bracelets was pretty much a (bad) attempt by a small group at the CDC to get help to Changed. Hospitals were supposed to report such cases that presented in order for doctors in the know to be summoned. It was created essentally with the idea that it wasn't really a workable solution, but the best that could be come up with. The factoid that came up about toxic medications was based on a factoid I heard many years ago, that penicillian has a singular toxicity for rodents. As such, as drug testing is set up today, its unlikely it would ever be approved. The idea is that there is enough transformation that people might pick up certiain toxic reactions to things that they didn't realize. I'm not sure anyone has really gone into depth with this, but I'd think you could infer that some canines would have violent reactions to chocolate, for example. Like all things, there would be some variability, just like some dogs can seem to eat chocolate fine while others it might kill. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 23:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

== Extreame ROB ==

I had an odd thought last night about the implications of what ROB does with respect to rewriting documentation of peoples pasts. ROB has been known to change paperwork, pictures and even apparent histories of people. (Didn't someone in After Hours discover they were supposed to have dated people earlier as the opposite gender?) That got me to thinking about how far this might all go. Assuming that ROB doesn't actually start to mess with memories, will it start to alter older records? Pictures from earlier than the first Change, even for subjects that died before it all started? Paintings? And would they be consistent? Would every painting done of George Washington find the same form? And to take it a few steps further, what about statues? This could get messy... which isn't always a bad thing from a story perspective. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 15:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:I can see that happening more as a result of the furry virus, since that kind of extreme "history editing" feels more malevolent to me than something ROB would do. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 20:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Interesting though that would be, it's an important plot mechanic for there to still be remnants of the human world - Once the entire human race has transformed, they need to still be aware that this has happened - Rewriting history would remove this and it would be as if nothing happened... if you see what I mean? -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

::It would make sense for things to get messy if it were the virus causing it. Sloppy, half rewritten pasts, people not sure of what really happened and what didn't, more like a temporal infection than a careful rewriting. That kind of scare could lead the reader to be a bit more sympathetic about ROB trying to stop the virus's progression. It would also make a great opportunity to go all Serial Experiments Lain on a story and leave people wondering wtf -- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:10, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Furry Sizes ==

What size are furries? It's pretty clear that bears are big and mice are small, and it mostly makes sense to have the same thing (but not as extreme) for anthroid furries, but there are some other size differences I can't so easily imagine. Some guidelines might be helpful. Ferrets in particular, ferret males are often twice as big as ferret females, as is the case of many mustelids, but at the same time both of them are smaller than cats. If I make a female ferret larger than a rat, and a male ferret smaller than a cat, that's starting to leave not so much room to spare. If I had to finagle a scale I'd say

* mice - 1.2 meters (or less!)
* rats - 1.3 meters
* female ferrets, squirrels, minks, etc - 1.4 meters
* male ferrets, ringtails, mongooses - 1.6 meters
* female cats - 1.7 meters
* male cats, skunks, raccoons - 1.8 meters uh...
* big cats and wolves - 1.9-2.0
* big stuff like bears - all the way to 2.2.

But then again it might also be fun to have a 2 metres tall cavy. GEORGE LOVES YOU COME GIVE GEORGE A BIG HUG.

Maybe illustrating size differences between sexes is a bit too piccaunish. >.<
-- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:04, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

:I should personally think that irrelevant. While there's clearly going to be some destinction between heights and races, I think guidelines are unnesecary. People come in all shapes and sizes, this individuallity should be maintained. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

One little detail though, (and it doesn't really apply to me but may for others), removing hippo's, rhino's and elephants from the pool seems to be a bit speciest, considering moose are allowed. In looking at the Wiki, it seems that hippos (1.5meters) and rhinos (2.0 meters) are actually generally smaller or the same size as the largest moose (2.1 metres) species. Elephants seem to average about a meter or two larger than the moose.

Perhaps a better restriction would be to allow any land mammal (and any sea mammal that is between the sizes of the minimum land mammal size and the maximum land mammal size), but set minimum and maximum furre sizes; something like a min of 1.2 metres or 4ft to a max of 2.0 metres or 7ft.

Anyways, I'll try and keep an eye on things and see if I can culture this idea I've got further. - 19:50, 10 January 2008 [[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]

== Human Survival ==

Since the US government, and governments of the world, would have obviously known about the furry changes for many years as government officials became Changed, they logically would have set up Projects (like the Manhattan Project) to study the reasons and try and find a solution. It is obvious to them that the end of humanity will come and this should have all contries of the world enganged in studying the scientific causes of the RDF and ways to affect it. Many of the scientists themselves who get changed would surely want to study the effect. Any physics professor changed would jump at the chance to study it and get the next Nobel prize for figuring it out. It does defy natural laws, therefore the new laws it does follow can be studied. If there is some master computer responsible for the universe, such as in Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, then this it might be possible for a "super computer" build by the UN or whoever to communicate with the ROB virus program or even the Master computer itself, and change it, such as the computer "Obie" in the Well World books. Personally, I favor a different approach. In 1987 a super computer someplace near Chicago DID develop self awareness, predicted that mankind was going to overpopulate and destroy the planet, and it decided to "FIX" things by connecting with the main universal computer at the center of the universe on a night when the least number of galaxies are in the way, which happens to be Aug 17. The governments at some point would find out that the birth rate is on a serious decline even though it is possible for furries to have babies, it is not as common as humans due to all the different genetics and species involved. Mating a horse furry with a rabbit furry is much less likly to produce offspring, for example, that mating a horse furry with another horse furry, so regardless of who was married to who when they are human, statistically the couple won't be able to have children after both change, unless they are the same. Some story about finding the ROB computer near Chicago before 2020 should be a possibility and reasoning with it might be a good solution.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:37, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:The thing is, there is no ROB computer in our world, if I'm understanding what you're saying here. It isn't like Obie or the Well World where it's something inside the Universe itself that's causing the Change. This setting--basically our world--exists as a Planck-level simulation space inside a post-Singularity posthuman computer. There are two viruses (also posthuman, slightly more advanced) responsible for the Change: A relatively controllable TG virus, and the much newer "furry virus" that ROB can't contain with "history editing".
Keep in mind that governments didn't really know this was even happening until the early 2000s.
Otherwise, the RDF/Change as a source of study for physicists is a good angle.
-- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:57, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::I just hate to plug but if you want an example of how goverments might screw up the change read my story [[User:Fibio|Cascade Failure]]
-- [[User:Fibio|Fibio]] 20:42, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::Of course, in a way it's kind of pointless even to know about it, since I can't really foresee any way that it could ever become a plot point within the story itself. I can't really see humanity figuring out how to "hack" its way out.
It doesn't really make that much of a difference, from an in-universe standpoint, to assume that it's all being done by "magic". (Any sufficiently advanced technology…) —- [[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 21:23, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Pretty much [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityWarper] all around. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thanks folks for all the replies to my post! People to talk to! OK, first JonBuck, I am not really sure I understand all the Plank-level simulation space inside a post-singularity posthuman supercomputer stuff (I did try to look up the story Accelerando but I just found a book cover) but I interpret this to mean: Plank-Level = really really small; simulation space = not real or temporary space in computer memory; post-singularity = after a black hole evaporates in about a few trillion years; post human = mankind extinct; supercomputer = something like the Cosmic AC in [http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html] ?

However, my ignorance aside, regardless of what the supercomputer is, or what we are, it would in effect be God. Now ROB could represent the devil, or if God has gone crazy, the savior. ROB either was created by the supercomputer "GOD" on purpose or by accident, it was created by a simulation universe, either our own, a past one, or another running concurrently, to infect God, or it was created by God's creators as some part of the God computer for some purpose and function, and if that is the case then either it is carrying out its intended program or it has malfunctioned. I think that is a complete list of all possible options, so if I have missed one then please let me know.

You stated, "It comes from outside the post-Singularity brain, and is slightly more advanced than "ours". What's happening is this bit of malicious code (sentient, no less, but on a level far beyond our ability to comprehend it) is messing up the simulated world we reside in. Why? I dunno. One of those inscrutable things." This sentient "virus" needs to have come from one of the posibilities above, and I suppose it is up to you to decide which, but since "you dunno", then I will try to help.

I guess the first question is "Why did God create the universe?" which translated means "Why is the supercomputer running the simulation?" Is the goal good or evil? Perhaps the supercomputer was programed to do so for an evil purpose by its creators, and ROB is sort of like its concience it has developed and wants to mess up the experiment before it can produce evil results. I would favor ROB being good, instead of evil, perhaps trying to produce a different result that will end up doing good than if the simulation ran to completion on its present course. However, that being said, if ROB is a computer virus, and based on logic and programable, and is expending energy to maintain the RDF, scientists studying that might find a way to..either communicate with it, grab its attention, or annoy it. I believe that enabeling some communication with it, even though we won't understand it completly, would produce some interesting stories.

Fibeo, I had previously read your story and just re-read it. By the way it is fine to plug :) When I read it the first time I thought that it really did not fit in with the rest of the stories since it involved time travel. In the context of a simulation, that would mean more than one running at one time, all on different timelines, and being able to hop between them. Maybe ROB is trans-simulation and could have helped this, but I really don't see how anyone in a simulation could get the supercomputer running it to re-set it to a prior time point and insert someone from a future point. It was an interesting story however and I did enjoy reading it.

Robotech, "magic" is a nice simple explanation to explain the unexplainable, but mankind strives for answers, it seeks to understand, and predict and ultimately control those things it can not immediately explain. Faced with an unexplainable force that is threatening mankind itself with extintion, mankind will use all resourses at its disposal, spare no espence, bring the greatest scientific minds, changed and unchanged to work on studying and solving the problem. It may be futile, we may never be able to win against the Gods, but it is the nature of mankind to TRY! You mentioned it is unlikly manking could "hack" its way out. That would be one possibility, since mathematics would likly be the same for both us and the supercomputer and ROB which are both based on mathmatics and logic. however, there are possibities for stories regarding that attempt..and could be very interesting. If I was a writer, I might even try writing one, but who knows...I might anyways.

Back to JonBuck. The link was to an article about people thinking something and it becoming real. Much too powerful, sort of like...writers!
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:Okay. I'm going to clarify some concepts here.
:The Singularity I'm referring to is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity Technological_singularity] . Nothing to do with gravity. A [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman further entry on posthumanism] , and its close relation, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanist Transhumanist]. By Planck-level I mean, basically, the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units smallest length in the universe] . Everything down to those levels is "simulated".
:Moving on, the kind of questions you bring up I actually don't want to deal with. The reason I'm using the ROB acronym in the first place is to avoid overtly religious connotations. I realize that they're very important, but it's otherwise such a contentious issue in the real world. I really don't want to see any "communicating with ROB" stories.
:Post-Singularity intelligences are by nature inscrutable (I've seen Stross refer to them as "Weakly Godlike Entities" in his books). At this point ROB has switched to a "salvage mode" by making direct changes to the "simulation" in the form of alleviating energy crises (a huge concern of mine at the time I wrote most of my stories in this setting) and climate change.
:''Accelerando'' is actually [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerando_%28book%29 available for free].
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:27, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks for the reply Jonbuck, the links were very helpful and I have a clearer idea what you are talking about now. It is going to take me a while to read all the stories.
::I used religious words to describe ideas simply that are familiar but did not mean in any way to be controversial.
::I will try over the next few weeks to put together a short story within your constraints, and if it exceeds your limits we can just change it. I plan to make one assumption, and that is that a simulation is defined by rules set for it that need to be obeyed for it to continue running. ROB changing the speed of light in the simulation for example would be such a fundamental change in everything that it would break the entire simulation, i.e. crash the program. ROB can only work within the rules set for the simulation, agreed?
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:12, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :) At this point the simulation is being salvaged to prevent social chaos, death, and extinction of the people inside it.
:::There's a novel out that has some very similar ideas and influenced a lot of how I set up this setting: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_%28novel%29 ''Darwinia'' by Robert Wilson] .
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:22, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply JonBuck, I can work with that, and will post something in a few weeks for your feedback.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

== About ('''2004''') '''''Victory Starts Here''''' ==

OK, JonBuck, I lied and posted the story in just 2 days. I could not stop thinking about it. I got as far as I could. Could you please read it and then tell me the results of each of the experiments before I can continue in the next one? Thanks!
[[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:17, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

:After the "server crash" of 2011; the original story [[User:Enphilistor|Victory Starts Here]] (by [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] ) is now avalaible (in a very crude, text only format) in the Talk Page of it´s creator: [[User_talk:Enphilistor| Victory Starts Here]]
: -- [[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think I will just have to decide for myself how the experiments turn out and just hope you approve. One of my goals in the stories I plan to write is to explain "scientifically" all the effects you have going on here are consistent with all universal laws. If you are running a program, you can't change the code of the program while it is running. You can change the code but only by stoping the program from running and recompiling it. So anything ROB is doing has to be done inside the simulation following the rules of the simulation (under the premise of the stories I plan to write). It is really not going to be easy for the scientists(i.e. me) to explain the changes to the past records, or why they start off only being change a few years back, then all the way back to the day someone was born, and undoing history such as marriages. And remember, I can't have ROB using "magic", ROB is in the simulation and has to be constrained to its rules. Because of this constraint, ROB needs a "body" someplace and a supply of "energy" from somewhere, to direct and power all these changes. I hope you enjoy my next story, that should be entiteld something like "Victory Continues", where Paul has to cope with being a female pig, and the scientists recieve some confusing results on the origin of the signals they record.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 22:27, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

:Not really. If ROB is outside of the simulation, there's nothing to stop it from pausing the simulation and reworking the fabric of it as necessary. It's like pausing the Sims and placing new walls or whatever. As far as the Sim-people are concerned, those walls might as well as have always been there, even if we (the players) know better. ROB is not inside the simulation, ROB is the player(s) outside the simulation. In no sense does ROB need to obey any rules within the simulation, nor does it need act within the laws of the simulation to change the simulation. By definition anything ROB does is going to be 'magic' because turning people into furries, or editing history, isn't something that's allowed within physical laws. Most of the transformations directly violate the law of the conservation of mass and energy, for example.
:I don't mean to rain on your parade, and I'm clearly not Mr Buck (who might disagree with my explanation), but it seems like you're not quite getting the setting, as I understand it. Hope that helps.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 07:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

::Got it in one, Honeymane. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:30, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

JonBuck said, Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :)

In addition, since ROB hates paradoxes, and will go to such extremes as making sure each child will have both a biological father and a mother and never 2 fathers or 2 mothers, following the rule of conservation in energy and mass is necessary to avoid such paradoxes on an even more fundamental level and in any case easily achieved. If you read my story, that exact experiment has been set up to measure this. Since it is so easy to maintain mass and energy balance, which you will see in the next story, there is no reason to violate this universal law. Imagine the effect on the simulation if you try to break this rule either while it is running or "pausing" it. A calculation is in the process of being made on an object between it and every other object in the universe. In the middle of the calculation a zero is entered (E = mC^2, so if you are going to, C is either zero, which crashes the program and is not what JonBuck said, or as m goes to zero, then c goes to infinity which also changes the velocity of light constant which JobBuck said would not happen). Some calculations have already been performed and other calculations in progress have end up with a divisor of zero. You crash the program when you restart it, as the zero divisor propagates in all the calculations throughout the universe.

In any case, mankind will try and study these effects, and my stories will be mostly concerned with these attempts. However, when I say all laws have to be obeyed, that does not mean all laws that humans know about, it can include new ones. It may be that the results of the experiments will lead them to conclude that something is breaking the laws of the universe because they don't understand them all, but ROB will know what it is doing. I imagine it like this. The main computer can't use its antiviral programming to stop ROB as long as ROB is hiding in the simulation and following the rules in the simulation, but if ROB breaks the rules, and crashes it, he becomes exposed with no place to hide and gets zaped. You will see that in the next story, that ROB is still just as powerful to the same "magic" as it can is now, and still be consistent with all stories that have happened, and the setting JonBuck has set up. JonBuck has not really explained the interaction between the main computer and the virus or any protections or why they are not working. In any case, it doesn't matter what i think, since the stories I plan don't mention this at all, they will be consistent with either ROB being inside or outside the simulation, only what the beings in the simulation measure is in the stories. Just trust me, the story will be interesting and fun, and if JonBuck says no to some result after he reads it, I will change it. Fair?
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 01:54, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I haven't had time to read your story yet. Frankly, reading your comments here I'm getting a little antsy over what exactly the impact it would have on the overall setting. I think you're over-analyzing the setting, frankly. You're asking questions about it that I really can't answer.
:Also, use colons in front of your paragraphs to make them indent and create a "nested" topic. And put a blank line between paragraphs. Thanks.
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:21, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

::For JonBuck I had intentionally not been using indents so that my comments would be totally left justified and everyone the replies for everyone else indented, make it easier in my view to keep things organized. But if you prefer indents, I am easy.
::I had assumed that you had already read the story. It would be good for me to get some feedback on that since none of the things we discuss here are really in it, but may impact it.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think you're confusing the 'players' here. First, there's the computer that all the "real" characters (ie the characters in the story) exist in. ROB 1 is likely someone running the computer, perhaps for anthropological reason, perhaps because they're bored. ROB 2 is unrelated to ROB 1, but for one reason or another, has managed to add a virus program to ROB 1's simulation, causing problems. There are at least 2 viruses that JonBuck has discussed; one that changes gender, and one that changes people into furries, we could, however, imagine that there may have been other viruses in the past, that eventually ROB 1 removed. For example, Atlantis might have been real, and so might have the Greek/etc gods. Atlantians were gifted technology beyond what they should have, and ROB 1 deleted the island to save the program, ROB might have also deleted the Gods, for whatever reason, etc. I'm just speculating here. Now, either ROB can't remove the virus like it did the other problems, or it realized that altering reality was screwing with the program's purpose (such as anthropological study) So rather than delete the TG or TF viruses, ROB 1 created a program to try and mitigate the virus's effects. This program is what causes the history editing (etc).
:Both these viruses exist within the programing of the Computer, but not on a level that would appear to anyone in the program. It's important to remember that time doesn't necessarily pass like it does within the computer; the virus could get it's work done in a nanosecond. Everything else, the sickness, the slow change, all these might be part of the mitigation program's efforts to prevent anyone from changing in public, and to change so suddenly they lose their minds, nor without warning. But there's no reason to think that this computer virus is operating through something like an actual virus, or that the changes are visible on a cell level before the change occurs, even in those showing the signs of the change.
:But again, this is just me talking, not Buck. But I do strongly suggest you hold off writing too much more until Jon has a chance to review your story, or else you might very well find yourself writing something based on ideas that JonBuck doesn't like/want in his setting.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: For Honeymane It is really difficult to hit a moving target. I have not seen in any of the stories and discussions or JonBuck's guidlines about prior activity of ROB. As for ROB1, ROB2, ....ROBN, only one master computer has been mentioned and only one ROB virus. In my understanding, the main comupter has created a SIMULATION. The main computer is infected with a much smaller and more limited "few lines of code" virus, that the beings on one planet in the SIMULATION call the random omnipotent being, but this being is only omnipotent comparted to us, not compared to the main computer. I do not see ROB having the same power to shut down the simulation, pause it, change the rules in it or perform any of the jobs the main computer does.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I see ROB as much more limited. It needs to avoid detection of the antiviral programs, it can't attract their attention, it needs to work by stealth, it is a virus after all, it can't do things that say, "here I am!". And this all follows from things JonBuck has indicated. If he wants to say ROB = main computer in all powers, then well, fine, but he has not done so. He has not defined the motives of ROB or the main computer. when asked, he has said, " I dunno". Given that void, since I need to write in that setting, I find myself creating possible motives for them in my mind.
:It makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, but it helps me limiting ROB to viral powers and behaviors, not mainfraim abilities. A virus has 2 main goals, to keep itself alive and to reproduce itself. ROB may or may not have the second goal, but it will have the first. While doing this in any enviornment, it may cause side effects. Imagine ROB as a biological virus, and a living cell as the simulation that is growing inside a body that is the mainframe. At one time ROB was outside the cell, in the body (mainframe) where lots of antibodies (antiviral programs) were hunting for it. By entering the cell, it is now hidden from the body's defenses. However, if the cell gets sick or dies(ROB crashes the cell simulation) before ROB has either left the cell or reached a state of reproduction where that is desireable, then the body will just devower the cell and grow a new one. So in my scenario, perhaps ROB realized that the purpose of the simulation was about to be achieved, and since ROB is not ready to reproduce, it is messing with the simulation, hyjacking it as a virus hyjacks the DNA of a Cell, to keep the simulation alive longer than it would otherwise, so that it won't reach the conditions for termination, until it can make other copies of itself to infect other simulations. Who knows, maybe with enough copies of itself it can take over the mainfraim. Alternatively, its work at transforming mankind may be the way it is going about reproducing. Alternatively, ROB might have realized the simulation was about to produce a failed reslut which would have terminated the simulation and it is acting to keep itself alive by preventing failure conditions.
:In any case it makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, JonBuck had declined to actually be clear on this, and it really does not matter. The beings in the simulations don't know this, and it is difficult to think of any way they could ever find out. Well actually I could, because I am like that. One way would be if ROB tells them, and since Jonbuck said no comunication with ROB, that won't happen. Another if the mainfram sends a COR (Correcting Omnipotent Being) into the simulation (...and God sent his only begotten son...that type of idea) and told people.
:The second story is half done, and I plan to continue writing it since I have it all layed out in my mind. Hopefully Jonbuck will read the first story and give some feedback before I finish, but I believe he will approve of both stories in any case. And if not, I will change them.
: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: *puts on peacemaker and teacher hats*
:: From what I can tell you're looking for an explicit statement of something that has been implicit in the setting design since the start...
:: Where the Solar System once sat is now a cloud of what you could call "Computronium". Inside this computer are many, many simulations. Whether these simulations are the creation of a separate physical being or the uploaded minds of people is a moot point - we'll never see the "real world". (btw, ROB could actually be an AI that was once a person...)
:: The stories all take place inside one of these simulations that has picked up a couple of viruses somewhere. One of them has been around since at least the late 70's (IIRC, this is mentioned in one of Jon's stories) and the other didn't appear until 1987. The one that showed up in 1987 - the "furry virus" - is newer and initially ROB had tried to contain it using the "Perception Filter". When it somewhat "merged" with the TG virus the simulation got a lot more unstable and ROB had to start including things in its "containment" to help combat that instability. That is the "history revision" stuff. It also is the cause of the changes to married couples with children - because it was seeing potential causes of instability (no more mother/father) and fixing it as it could.
:: There is no "ROB" actually in the simulation - think about the game "The SIMS"... In that game you are the ROB - the creator and maintainer of the simulation. And you can "Pause" the simulation, make changes and restart it. In this case at least the entirety of the solar system is part of the simulation and every time ROB has to make a change it "pauses" the simulation, makes the changes and then hits the "normal speed" button. Now... there might be some people in the world that are actually from outside the sim, but they'd never make themselves known - and they could, probably, act like the ROB and remove any evidence of themselves (outside of memories) from the sim.
:: -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 04:21, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

::: I think a lot of the problems here is a misunderstanding of the source material I'm drawing inspiration for this setting from. Honeymane and ShadowWolf have both described things well. (Though I'm going to bump the TG virus back a few more centuries). A few points.
:::: * ROB exists outside the simulation. Other ROBs are not important. The Virus is not a ROB. However, ROB isn't really a physical being either, as SW describes.
:::: * The Virus originates outside the simulation. Who and what originally made it is a moot point.
:::: * The intent of said "virus" (the term only fits loosely) is to throw a monkeywrench into ROB's simulation of our universe. The reason why it hasn't been contained is that it was created by a slightly more advanced post-Singularity Mind than ROB. Since ROB can't contain it, ROB can only mitigate.
:::: * Essentially, the two virii are intended to cause social chaos via random transformations. It doesn't exist to propagate itself to other simulations. In the first case, a "quarantine" of sorts was created via modifying the present records of those TGed to reflect their new gender. If it was true history editing neither the person transformed nor the people who knew them would remember what they'd been. What ROB is changing are just the present physical objects.
:::Honestly, go read Part 2 of Accelerando. It was originally started as short stories, so you can pick it up there. That's where a lot of the concepts for Paradise started.
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 05:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, it seems terminology is messing me up. I was under the apparently mistaken belief that ROB was the virus, and the Mainfraim running the simulation(s). I believed this because the virus was random and chainging someone to a furry is sort of mildy omnipotent. Yes, I fully agree that if ROB = Mainfraim(or AI who might have once been human) then ROB must definatly outside the simulation. My comments were consering only the virus(es) that are causing the transgender/furry transformations.
Let me call the form that can do either one or the other or both, the Random Omnipotent Virus, ROV for short so there will be no misunderstandings. I can see ROB stoping the simulation and making corections, eliminating divisions by zero and all that. However, ROV should not have those abilities, being just a lowly virus, compared to ROB. The stories I wish to write constrain ROV to using the same old laws that existed in 1987, and prior to that if there was the TG virus. The universe we live in now was supposed to be identical to that one until 1987, I would like that ROV should be handicaped a little by the rules ROB created for the simulation. A simulation is to test SOMETHING, and if you start changing the rules (ie laws of nature) your results are just not going to simulate the conditions you wanted to in the real world, where you don't have the power to change the laws of nature.
The experiments the humans are setting up in my first story will indicate only the effects being caused by ROV. If ROV is outside or inside the simulation does not really matter, but if ROV can behave just like ROB, then that study is just not going to produce anything interesting either scientifically, or plot wise. Such violations of the laws of nature might just scream at them "There really must be a god involved." and we never want them to know or suspect ROB or the true nature of ROV. To have a scientific study, I would like ROV to follow the laws of the universe, for any of the reasons described here and in prior posts. I will work out some reasons that make sense to the humans for all things happening regarding the transformations, to keep them studying and not just throw up their hands in frustration, if that is ok.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]]

== Count of Changed in 1997 ==

Hello! I'm new here, but I really like this setting and read probably most of the stories. I even made my own table in Excel to draw the changing numbers as a graphic (Also for my hometown to get a grip on the numbers). And there I noticed something:

Maybe I just missed a story or paragraph where it is explained, but shouldn't there be 1024 Changed in 1997 instead of 1028? Where do the additional 4 Furries come from? I know this is just minor, but the error is kept through the following years till the end and all the numbers are wrong (It doesn't however change the fact that 2020 is the last year).

It's not so important, but it's been bugging me since I noticed it. -- [[User:TigeR|TigeR]] 15:53, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:Check out the [[Paradise (Setting)]] page. It has all the numbers. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

:: Jon, you do have a +4 in 1997 over a strict doubling. This is what he was pointing out and asking questions about. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: And fixed! -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:37, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: This error went a heck of a lot deeper and its possible that the skew-factor introduced in 1997 effected the percentages as time went into the future - however... I fixed this by hand and then verified the figures against a program that output every power of two from zero to the 33rd. As it stands this table now has correct figures for the furry population and one can only assume that the historical figures for population are correct and the projection fits the curve correctly. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:55, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Paradise:The Soundtrack ==

Not sure about anyone else, but I find music to be a major inspiration.. Well of course it

is... the song "Strangers by Yoko Kanno" got this series off the ground did it not?

So I decided to put together a soundtrack, it's not available for download because I own

none of these songs... But if you happen to have them, you can arrange them in your iPod

Playlist, if you want.. I mean I'm not forcing ya, it's just a possibility.

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0b58V573l8 '''Yoko Kanno''' - Strangers -_Wolf's Rain - Strangers by Sori Smile-_ ] <- { The begining of ALL of this... }

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IroHea5FOj8 '''Bliss 66''' - Not Quite Paradise ] <- {''This song pretty much hits the entire series on the head... (It's from the ending of [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb2aMjprmdo Titan A.E.], damn good movie, do see it sometime)''}

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqds0B_meys '''Three Days Grace''' - Animal I Have Become]

: '''Iris''' - Goo Goo Dolls

: '''Mighty Bosstones''' - Impression That I Get

: '''Lee Brotherton''' - Dream Of An Asbolution

: '''Cash Cash''' - Speak With Your Heart

: '''Eminem''' - Beautiful

: '''Shania Twain''' - Man I Feel Like A Woman

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE9zpOyNDoA '''Chip Tha Ripper''' - SLAB Freestyle -_What Are You Inside? - Furries In A Blender_- ] <- { ''Joke YouTube Entry'' }

: '''Tears For Fears''' - Everybody Wants To Rule The World

: '''Foo Fighters''' - The Pretender

and finally:

: '''John Mayer''' - Waiting On The World To Change

I think I forgot some, but yeah, definitely these. - [[User:Hawl|Hawl]] (1/10/11, 1:55 PM)

: The new ''metadata format'' for the songlist is: %'''Artist'''% - %Songtitle% -_%YTtitle%-_ <- {%''comment''%}

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8IujL8_sMI '''Stanfour''' - For All Lovers] <- { ''My Favorite ; "...For all the Changeds, and Believers..."'' }

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4w3lPYoBX8 '''Stanfour''' - Everything Has Changed]

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjlM_RnsVE '''Skillet''' - Monster]

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-makfpBrSQ '''Three Days Grace''' - Never too late]

: -- [[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:50, 03 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Paradise (Setting)

2011-02-03T21:13:26Z

Argamis: About "the crash" and the importance of this talk page for the creation of new Paradise Stories

It's an interesting setting, what I've read so far, and I've got an idea or two percolating that may or may not come to fruition. A seed is trying to sprout for an idea starting in '05 and going forward.

---

After the 2011 crash, the setting lost the most newer storys and the enrichment data inside their related Talk_Pages.
Maybe we can get back these with this -> [http://www.archive.org/web/web.php Internet Wayback Machine] in the far-far future (when the data gets very very old, its then available there).

If the "Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like an array that canalize the flow of "hot ideas" through it´s "insulated tube-rules" (preventing the "leaking and cooling" of the new storys in their necesary "plot-curves" and "bottlenecks-dramas"). . .
Then the "Talk:Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like the Virtual Remote Control Panel for that powergrid. When a new "hot idea" pop up in the wrong place or it´s going the wrong direction, a colision alarm sound here!.
The "already resolved discussions" divert automatically the issue, and for the real original new ones, at last offer a series of nearby "exhaust valves" designed for the protection of the "global setting" system.
:--[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 21:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Theory on how the Change 'spreads' ==

Been thinking about how it might spread, such that we have a higher proportion of Changed in NA, but not leaving the rest of the world out, and I think I know how.

The 'computer virus' that Changes people, uses the RDF to spread itself. Our 'program's' own protection method is also spreading the damages.

Basically, I am guessing that if the RDF needs to kick in on you, then you are passively 'infected'.

Then, when August 17th comes around, the Virus triggers itself, but it for whatever reason can only copy itself for every previously Changed person. (The Doubling effect), and it can only affect people that have been passively infected, ie people who have had the RDF kick in on them.

The goal of the virus is to spread as far as it can, so it takes the number of new Changed it can, and spreads it more or less evenly across the available (RDF-affected) population.

So the first Changed is in Chicago (I think). Through the year until the next Change, she will encounter thousands of people, even in passing, which triggers the RDF on them and passively infects them.

Come August, 1988, the next Changed will be picked randomly from those thousands of people, and now we'll have 2 people spreading the RDF virus. 1989, a big chunk of Chicago has probably had the RDF trigger at least once, not to mention some tourists and other visitors to the city.

In 89, we get 2 more Changed, and one of them could possibly be in a different random city, just because he'd been to Chicago in the past 2 years and unknowingly seen a Changed, and a new nest of RDF-field affected people starts up.

European and Asian and Oceanic outbreaks could happen in years to come as the number of tourists and business people from those reasons travel into North America and begin to be fielded and infected themselves.

The 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City probably 'infected' most of the people who were around and watching, meaning that by then (if not before) pretty much anyone has a chance to be Changed.

It also means that truly isolated areas of the world (South Pacific islands, isolated Amazonian tribes, etc) could potentially be unchanged after the 2020 deadline; but any encounter at all with a Changed would likely Change them immediately and spread like wildfire through the village)

And while the RDF may 'fail' at some point, it'll probably still be around in a less effective form, trying to maintain some stability and spreading the Change. --[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]
:I'll give that some thought. It's somewhat similar to something I already had in mind. Perhaps those who have the RDF fail completely will be much more likely to change the next year, or they might even change out-of-phase. In any case, once they figure out that it's like a communicable disease, and everyone is already 'infected', the remaining humans will go nuts. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 12:35, 27 January 2008 (EST)

== Change and disabilities? ==

I keep forgetting to bring this up on IRC, but how do people (as in writers and other interested people in this setting) think disabilities would be affected by the change? Both Mental and Physical?

Would a paraplegic who lost his legs in an accident regrow them if he changed? Would he regain the use of them if they weren't lost but just disabled? (back injury)? What about false teeth, deafness, blindness, etc?

What if the cause was not from a physical accident, but was viral or bacterial in nature? Some disease struck them blind? Would they stay blind?

And what if the disabilities were genetic? Would those genetic flaws still show in the new form?

Finally, what about mental disabilities? Could the Change 'cure' Alzheimer's? Would it affect someone who is literally a brain dead vegetable on life support?

If it does have curative properties, I suspect we'll start seeing more and more miracle cures (assuming they can survive the flu) in the years to come. Which may imply that there'll be a push in the early to mid 2010's to just keep someone alive as long as possible in the home they Change and are cured/fixed.

Thoughts?

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 11:00, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:I think there are good arguments to be made for some healing properties of the Change, but I wouldn't make it go all out. A person missing a limb should still be missing a limb after the change (I have in mind a scene with a one-armed pianist who goes monkey and starts playing with his feet).

:When it comes to things like Alzheimer's, that is a much more difficult choice. I don't see mental retardation being suddenly healed by the Change, as that is a birth defect (and such things happen in animals too). But progressive diseases may backtrack, even if the conditions begin to return over time. That could make an even more painful story, somebody suffering from Alzheimer's, who Changes and now recognizes all his family again. But after a year or so everything starts to slip away again...

:Anyway, the whole keeping folks alive and hoping for a Change could make a good dynamic too. I just think there's a lot fo possibilities to consider before we make a decision on this. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:24, 4 February 2008 (EST)
::I'm inclined to do as Matthias suggests. It's more or less what I had in mind. However, one of the things that the Change does is it puts everyone in very good health. Even being a 300 pound female bear, CM is in very good shape. It will cure some ailments, and put chronic diseases into remission. Those developments will confuse the medical community enough without regrowing limbs or curing Down's Syndrome. But if you've read the latest Tall Tales, ROB is being forced to act more openly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 15:40, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:What happens to medical devices like heart pacemakers or hip replacements that were implanted in people before they changed? --[[User:JeniSkunk|Jenifur Charne]] 20:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::That's basically an open-ended question. I'm going to leave the answer to that one unsaid because I think it'd be a good Plot Point in a story. A furry episode of ''House'' maybe? --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::Late into the discussion, but better late than never. : ) Anyway, what about things like fillings and caps on teeth? Going to a dentist would be interesting. Going another step, outside medical devices wouldn't fit anymore and would bring up some unique delimas. What about people with prosthetics? If someone turns into a bear, I'm sure their leg isn't going to fit anymore, yet Unknown will wonder why they make such a claim all of a sudden. Lots of places to go with these stories. [[User:Tinbender|Tinbender]] 21:24, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Hey, not really sure on any of the points raised, have to give it some thought. One thing to consider though is can anthro's act as a bridge to humans for viruses that currently only affect animals?--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 23:35, 10 February 2008 (EST)

== A mortal analysis of Paradise ==

Lets me see if I get some of the details right.

There is a post-singularity Uber-computer, that when projected into 3-space, has the same consistency as humanity's combined thumbnail and happens to be running a simulation of the events leading up to its own creation. Secondly, it gets infected by a super-bug/virus that makes borg nano-probes look overly large and cumbersome. Said post-singularity, sentient, ROB-type entity/ virus changes some lines of code (if such things can be referred to as such) in reference to the people in the simulation, in and around the vicinity of Chicago (maybe the super-bug's designers had way-distant ancestors from there, or whose ancestors had a grudge against the place). The Uber-comp, in a flash of inspiration counters with the 'firewall-from-not-heck', or RDF as we understand it. The ROB is still successful with its dastardly and despicable plan to make the simulated history end differently.

That I get as far as it can be understood by a three-dimensional entity not particularly versed in post-singularity, multi-dimensional physics and computational theory.

The RDF, The Veil, The "Really-Annoying-Mess-Up-Everyones-Lives" Field, appears to start collapsing or 'twisting' in several personal accounts. In fact, it would seem that there are certain individuals who have appeared to figure out means of 'gazing-past' the gaps in said previously mentioned field even though they do not have one of their own. Yes it has been theorized that they will soon fall victim to the ROB, however, consider that all of this is in one sense mere coding (albeit it happens to be far more complex than that), and that said people are taking advantage of 'bugs' in the code. How many bugs are there? Is it possible for someone (probably a changed, or mad scientist) to 'tune' or 'tinker' with the field, probably no more than tweaks to appearance or color? I know the Primary Engineer Of This Work has stated that there are no 'powers', but then again, this is all just code, and hackers can sometimes be just mortal.

Just a thought or two. I should probably stop this monologue before a super spy shows up.
~midon~

:You're pretty close overall, though the simulation doesn't necessarily have to be of the ROB's own creation. Human Earth could be something It came up with all by Itself. Another book that's similar to what I've come up with here is ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_(novel) Darwinia]''. Someone suggested that the best thing for the ROB to do is to restore from backup. The thing is, these are still people. ROB doesn't have a moral problem with allowing them to die within the sim, but will act to protect both itself and its people from an outside threat. Hence the RDF and other measures.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 17:46, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Thinking far future... ==

First, to make it VERY clear, I am NOT thinking of any stories or anything set in the 2020 period yet. I've just been thinking of how the world may be like by then, as the last half are about to change.

I suspect there would be a mix of celebration (the last humans are joining us!) and mourning (humans will no longer be as they were). Regionally, there will probably be searches for the "last human baby", the ones born days/hours before the last Aug 17 change; they'd probably be local celebrities, similar to "New Years Babies"

And in 2021, the nervousness would start. Is the change source gone? Is it mutating? Are we going to change further? Or into something else now? For the Changed Generation, that little shiver of fear every August 17th will probably persist until they are all gone.

All that assumes civilization hasn't fallen apart by then of course. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:42, 25 February 2008 (EST)

== Summer Olympics ==

This was nagging at the back of my mind a bit, but I finally nailed it down to actually check dates:

:"The 2008 Summer Olympics, officially known as the Games of the XXIX Olympiad, will be celebrated from August 8, 2008 to August 24, 2008".

For the record, the 2004 Olympics also just straddled the Change day, having started on Aug 13th. No other Summer Olympics have straddled Change day, but the 1996 games ended just before it, and the Paralympic Games that year did straddle the Change day.

The 2012 games in London curiously have a break between the end of the Olympics on Aug 12, 2012, and the start of the Paralympics on Aug 29.

Just something to think about for writers out there. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:The Change takes place right in the middle of the Olympics. All it takes is for one or two athletes to change to gum up the works. These people are already in top physical shape, too. But what happens when a swimmer becomes a dolphin, an otter, or perhaps something that doesn't swim well? I don't think the RDF can handle becoming as large as a rhino. They'll still displace an awful lot of water when they splash in.

:I'll have to mention this in Open Secrets.

:--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:53, 27 February 2008 (EST)

::At least the illness will be a bit of a cover. Depending on how many Changed athletes there are, (both active and new Changed), the illness could be used to skip out on some events out of necessity.

::Still the pressure to perform, even if their form is inappropriate for the sport (A Bull trying to do a polevault or the triathlon in general? A bear for gymnastics? A Mouse in weightlifting? ) will be intense

::There would probably be a lot of discussion when a star athlete suddenly isn't performing as well as they did before.

::Of course, a few years after that, the Beijing Olympics here will probably end up with a * like the LA and Moscow Olympics, as people find out about the Change and the number of ringers (otters in swimming events, felines and primates in gymnastics, gazelles and cheetahs in track events, bears and bulls in weight lifting, etc...) semi-intentionally sent by the various countries. We could very well see TTC-level problems happening in Olympic Village.

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== What happens ''after'' 2020? ==

Point one: Computer programs are never ''intrinsically'' equipped with an off-switch. Rather, a shutdown condition must be explicitly coded into a program -- and any program which ''lacks'' an explicit shutdown condition, will continue to chug merrily along until something hardware-ish gets in the way.

Point two: The Change is the result of a 'furry virus", ''i.e.,'' a '''computer program'''.

2020 is when the entire planetary population will be furry... but who's to say the 'furry virus' won't ''continue'' to do its thing, Changing people year in and year out, with each year's quantity of Changes being double that of the year before? We know that being Changed is ''not'' an absolute protection against the 'furry virus' -- the setting rules themselves ''explicitly allow'' previously-Changed people to get hit with another dose of Change, after all -- so ''either'' (a) the 'furry virus' ''does'' have an explicitly-coded off-switch, or else (b) starting in 2020, an ever-increasing number of people are going to end up Changing ''two or more times in any given year.''

If the 'furry virus' ''has'' a built-in off-switch, that begs the question of what, exactly, its shutdown condition ''is.'' Does it stop spreading/infecting when there's no unchanged Human left, is it waiting for some specific event or combination of events before it quits, or what? Perhaps the guy who wrote the 'furry virus' did so with the specific intent of encouraging ROB to make [insert specific changes here] in ROB's virtual world, such that the results of those changes are the virus's 'off-switch'?

If, on the other hand, the 'furry virus' has ''no'' built-in brakes, things can get weird, fast. People have already floated the notion of Changes happening "out of season"; what if these 'unscheduled' Changes are merely a harbinger of things to come, in which people can be re-zapped at any time of year, an arbitrarily large number of times per year? It may be instructive, or at least amusing, to extrapolate the data given in "The Numbers", and divide each year's expected number of Changes by the expected population for that year: In 2020, there's 1.12 Changes per person (perhaps every human being Changes, regardless of their current state, and there's a 12% chance of one guy Changing ''twice?).'' Since we're basically talking about a doubling function, it only takes until 2024 for every ex-human to be an involuntary member of the Change Of The Month Club (because there's a touch over 17 Changes per person that year), and the Change Of The '''Day''' Club starts up in 2029 (during which year there's a bit less than 514 Changes per person per year). In 2034, the extrapolated number of Changes per person for that year is significantly over 15,000 (which works out to about 7/4 of a Change ''per hour,'' every hour, for every human being); by 2040, we hit 1.75 Changes per ''minute;'' 2046 is when every human being starts to hit 1 Change per ''second.''

To repeat what I said above: Things get weird, fast.

Obviously, the above figures are ridiculous, since they're derived from mindless extrapolation of an exponential curve. Perhaps the most sensible way to go is to presume that ROB manages to ''do'' something about the metatstasizing 'furry virus' no later than 2025 or so. In any case, one hopes said figures at least provide a bit of food for thought... [[User:Cubist|Cubist]] 05:03, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

== Change and the Media ==

It's probably a sign that I watch WAY too much TV, but it's a theme that's been in the back of my mind (man that back area's getting mighty crowded with ideas). As the Change progresses, even with the Veil in place, more and more effects of the Change will start showing up in other ways, and it will become more and more 'public' even if the Unchanged won't really know what is going on. I suspect TV shows especially will begin to show a lot of these.

This is just some of my rambling thoughts on what the TV Cable signals might be sending to the screens of the Changed near-Future.

Reality TV in all its forms will probably be the first to really start showing the effects of the Changed, since they tend to have the fastest turnaround time and the most contact with non-actors. Court shows (like I wrote in my short story case) will have more and more cases of Changed vs Norms and even weird Changed vs Changed cases. "He won't share the nail clippers!" "She gifted me the money for the vacation to Alaska in January")

Gameshows also will start having more Changed contestants, especially popular ones like Price is Right.

And then you have the Survivor types. Show's like "Top Model" and "Bachelor(ette)" and "Blind Date" (especially given the Change's habit of giving the Changed Eye-turning bodies) will probably have the most Changed on a show early on (whether intentionally or unintentionally).

Home Makeover shows may start seeing even weirder designs as designers/homeowners remake rooms to give room for antlers or bigger buttons for hoof fingers and such. (We thought Frank's designs on Trading Spaces were weird BEFORE he Changed... :P )

Amazing Race may have a Changed Team soon; a few Changed in the Big Brother House (probably intentionally put in there by a Changed Studio staffer), and the next Survivor or two would probably have some contestants.

Once the Field comes down, I fully expect CBS to roll out a "Furries vs Normals" Survivor while they can.

Now onto more tasteful TV. (arguably :P )

Cartoons? (what few new ones that are made) will likely start having more and more of a furry bend to them. Hallowe'en specials may turn 'human' toons into furry ones as experiments to transition shows.

Soaps? Expect Change stories fairly soon I dare say. I don't watch them myself, but from what I've heard of some storylines they've done in the past, the Change isn't all that strange. These writers will probably be chaffing at the restrictions of the Field the most.

Sitcoms will probably start getting Changed in-jokes fairly quickly as more Changed writers and actors come on staff. Some of the jokes may verge on Veil-breaking too, but viewers would discount as visual FX.

Procedurals/Drama's, business as normal but more Change-related stories. Maulings and gorings investigated on CSI's (along with strange fingerprints/bootprints, hair samples, etc...), Without a Trace investigating people who disappear after Change Day, maybe even a TG mystery. Numb3rs maybe touching on the Change rate (imagine Chris brought in as an advisor for an ep ? :) ). House or ER dealing with a Changed patient and/or Changed doctors/nurses.

And finally (for now) Sci Fi/Fantasy shows will probably find themselves in a very difficult position. On the one hand, they'd be ideal to start exploring the Change itself. On the other hand, as long as the Field is in effect, they can't really explore them since they'd have to turn normals into Furry's (or dress furry's in fursuits). Plus, a show's setting may not exactly be ideal for adjusting to the Change. "SG-1/Atlantis" may be able to adjust (turn it into an Ori curse or something), but Terminator would have a harder time. Heroes could probably pull it off, but BSG? Unlikely. (Imagine them finding 'Earth' but it's a Furry Earth... Hmmm...)

Anyways, that's just some of my rambling thoughts on the TV of the near future, for what its worth.

:There's a simple way to make furries show up in Television. Simply use the polarized lenses as featured in Open Secrets on the video camera units. The image of the furries would pass through the polarized lenses onto the film. The film would record the true image in the same way that people would see the true image. Boom, RDF circumvented. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:26, 28 January 2009 (EST)

:: True those would work. But everyone involved for those scenes would have to Know or questions would be raised. Depending on the scene and production. (Thouhg some could be handwaved, as long as the producer/editors Know. "Bob's gonna play the part of a man-rat for this scene. We'll CG-replace him in Editing afterward"

::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 12:33, 28 January 2009 (EST)

::: Well, at the very least, the cameraman is going to be in the know fast! Actually, I could see something like this being done once things go public. We could have a documentary on the early Changed (while you can still get human actors!), and you'd have some cameras with the filter on it and some without so you could show what the Changed sees and what the unsuspecting humans around him see. --[[User:98.236.12.68|98.236.12.68]] 05:14, 29 January 2009 (EST)

:::: That is happening to some extent, though not with the filters yet. Shiloh (and her new boyfriend newly Changed this year) are doing what they can to document the Change and how it affects lives as it happens (on the side from their main jobs), and I'm sure she's far from alone on this.

:::: Once more Documentary makers get ahold of this and it goes public, I'm sure there will be more too.

::::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:33, 29 January 2009 (EST)

== Furries in Space? ==

OK Time for even more thoughts from me. :) Endeavor's launch last night triggered this thought.

I'm not going to elaborate, but is anyone watching the ISS crew for change symptoms? Or the shuttle crew if they're up? A Change up there could be Veil breaking just because of the amount of attention and lack of privacy those people have. (not to mention the extreme circumstances they'd be under).

The Change itself could very well spell the end of Manned space flight for the next few decades in the end.

Not sure if it would spell the end of manned space flight but yeah even just an examination of the air filter would find stuff that couldn't have gotten up there any other way.--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 19:16, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

:I'm sure it'd be the end of manned space flight for quite some time simply for economic reasons if nothing else. This is going to be rather disruptive and there'll probably be a bit of a budget pinch. [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

==The Reality Distortion Field is Real ==

Sadly, not the one you have in mind: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/18/2117208 :) [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

== Bats? ==

Just a question about the species: I've noticed you put aside birds for now, but what about bats?--[[User:142.68.130.19|142.68.130.19]] 23:52, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:Bats will put a huge strain on the Veil. If/when they do show up, it might be coming down by then anyway. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:36, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Farming in Paradise ==

Just shooting an idea in here for later. [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080410153658.htm This is the technology] widely deployed it the Paradise setting. But put the clock back ten years (1997 discovery, widespread global deployment by 2008). Biochar/agrichar. With any luck, the Green Revolution will be replaced with the Black Gold Revolution quickly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== BioFuels ==

Jon, you're beginning to scare me a bit. :P

This was just on Slashdot this morning: [http://www.utexas.edu/news/2008/04/23/biofuel_microbe/ New Source for Biofuels Discovered by Researchers At The University of Texas at Austin]

Basically, some bacteria that can make cellulose which can be turned to fuel, and the cellulose can be harvested without harming the bacteria.
--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 06:10, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

:I read about this yesterday. They hope to increase production efficiency 17-fold because otherwise, you'd have to cover the ''entire'' Midwest with this. Unfortunately it won't happen fast enough to prevent the shortages I know are coming.

:I read about this stuff every day. I mean, ''every'' day. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:19, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Another bit of news: [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece "Scientists find bugs that eat waste and excrete petrol."] --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 11:12, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== The Chicago Ghost Killer ==

After having seen countless videos of Persona 3 on youtube, and having played the .hack//GU games, and having read about this setting repeatedly, this idea was born out of my skull. It doesn't really fit with the setting per-say, (people dealing with expected changes in their lives and the changing of culture as truth becomes harder and harder to keep hidden), but it's still interesting.

Imagine if once the number of furries hits the thousand mark or close to it (1997), a strange series of murders begin in Chiago and wander outwards. To normal police and investigators these people have -nothing- in common, just random innocent people. But the furries know that every single person killed was a furry! Now this is where things start to get weird.

When seen by furries, the killer is a lanky laid back twenty something raven haired young man whose expression almost always remains passive wearing semi-formal dark clothes with a revolver in one hand and spare bullets in the opposite pocket.

When the police just about anyone else whose effected by the perception filter see him, they see 'Average Joe' or 'Face You Can't Help But Forget' and never ever notice the weapon he's holding unless he hits them with it or shoots them or something just as drastic. It is also is picked up by metal detectors the same as any metal gun. In other words, his existence, is like the existence of furriness to normal humans, his existence effects them, but they can't notice him directly.

This guy always knows a furry when he sees one regardless of media or medium, or reads one, this include file records of people TGed by the virus. When he spots one or finds out about one, he calmly location that person, in order of him learning about them, and shoot that person in the head without fanfare then simply move on to the next one.

Physically his strength and speed are all perfectly average human, meaning a bear or tiger furry could easy tear him apart.

Strange thing is that if profiled, no records of him will turn up, anywhere!

Also, he might even begin to appear DIFFERENTLY to people who are under the effect of the perception filter. He can't appear as a furry, and can NEVER EVER appear as a precise person (he can't appear as someone's mother or brother). But he can ultimately change how people look at him, they see a five year old girl with a teddy bear opposed to a man with a revolver even if he STILL can't fit in a toy car for the life of him and that 'bear' might go off if someone else 'hugs' it, (which he'd avoid someone doing at all posts). He could also appear as a fire fighter or police officer if he gets clever enough. Though furries will -always- see through this disguise. Along with any human whose able to see furries without effort.

The Chicago Ghost Killer never attacks non-changed humans, and will never take a shot if there's a reasonable chance of shooting a non-changed person.

He travels by mundane methods, he always travels by the most practical and speedy method and always has the correct change or ticket (this is not an illusion). His taxi, train, or airplane never crash.

If detained for questioning, he might just walk straight out of the police station unless some of the cops are furries. If stripped of his weapon and ammo next time he shows up he'll have a new set perfectly identical to the last one down to the imperfections in the casing.

Now this is where things get ambiguous. I don't know if he's killed he just appears in Chicago the day after the change again each year, or weather two different people with abilities similar to his appear in his stead these armed with a crossbow and another one shot distance weapon.

Since deleting the entire universe is not an option, The Chicago Ghost Killer might be an emergency fail safe to try and cut off the infected flesh from the system.

His name comes from where he started killing (strangely the same place as the changes began) and the fact that to normal humans he IS like a ghost, there yet not there but decidedly felt.

I know this doesn't really fit with the setting at all, but I just had to share it with the only people who'd appreciate it.

Thank you.

- Alex Warlorn. 2008 06 15

:And his name is Agent Johnathan Walker Smith, is it? Seems like a Matrix Agent to me... (unsigned comment)
::Actually I don't think he'd -have- a name, or even know the true nature of the world, he'd just know what he -had- to do and how to do it and how he can do it.-- Alex Warlorn

== Octuplets born in California ==

Things that make you go Hmmmm....

8 babies at once
Planning to breast feed them all.
Names not being released (yet).

Could we have a changed couple hiding out there from the glare of the media spotlight? :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:25, 27 January 2009 (EST)

=='''Future RDF Failure'''==

I'm starting to work out ideas about how the RDF would fail. My current thinking is that it will work on a small scale first. Visually, there would be a "refraction", like seeing your own eyes through your glasses. Or your leg halfway in a pool. This is the "Refraction Effect". These are places where the RDF has been removed, like a section of glass, revealing the Real World underneath. It's gone. The visual effect makes it clear a border's been crossed. I'm not sure ''when'' this is going to happen. Probably sometime near the US Gov wants to go public. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 07:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

===Weirdness Censor?===

I've been thinking about an "RDF Lite" that could basically act as a Weirdness Censor instead of the full blown see-furries-as-humans version that exists right now. There'd still be social upheaval, but not the civilization-ending type that would most likely happen. I'm very likely going to do this in After Hours, but I want to do it right. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

==The "Posthuman" World ==

In order to differentiate this setting from WoC more, I'm going to keep a certain number of regular humans in the furry world that results when the virus runs its course. Same rules as other furry types as far as parent-child species. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 19:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

:No offense, but that feels like a cop-out to me. As someone else pointed out, a computer virus is NOT going to simply 'burn itself out' a computer virus continues like any program infinitely unless it's directly ordered to. Once it runs out of humans to transform, it'll start to transform furries into other species, and become even more chaotic as time progresses. I just feels cheap the virus suddenly just stops, and it doesn't make sense form a programming point of view either since it would open MANY MORE cans of worms anyway. -- Alex Warlorn June 15 2009

::Okay. How to address this? A lot of my ideas for this setting comes from Charles Stross's work, which can get pretty mind-bending at times. ''Accelerando, Glasshouse, Singularity Sky'', and ''Iron Sunrise'' all come to mind. One of my basic assumptions is that the Furry Virus is itself sentient/sapient, but it's not ''quite'' as smart as the transhuman intelligence running the Simulation Space that is our universe (down to the Planck Length).

::The RDF was a last-ditch effort to maintain the experiment as it was. We're all a bunch of microbes, as far as ROB is concerned. But It's not the type of Being to just chuck the whole experiment into the incinerator and start over. At this point ROB has scrapped the original experiment in favor of trying to prevent our little petri dish universe from going completely bad. So, 1) contain the Furry Virus, and 2) prevent it from doing any more damage beyond 2020 by creating a specific End State. The FV remains, but it becomes an uncommon chronic disease.

::Frankly, now that furries and the TGed have been Outed ROB may even stop the history editing. More obvious actions include: Refilling dead oilfields, creating social conditions so humans aren't really surprised at the Change. There are probably all kinds of countermeasures ROB has done that I haven't thought of in order to keep people from going ''crazy crazy'' and incinerating their own petri dish. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::I was thinking of a similar idea, but in a programming context as opposed to a biological one, and ''very'' limited. Think of every person as an element of an array, i.e. Human[]. An algorithm designed to change the values of every element, like the furry virus is doing, would most likely go from 0 to some constant POPULATION_HUMAN. In that case, ROB might be able to circumvent the effects for the virus for a select few by assigning people to special values: NULL, NaN, -1, MAX_INT, INFINITY, or other predefined numbers, even those that aren't considered "special" to humans. The purpose of this would be to preserve ''some'' unaltered "data" for purposes not important to us, and it can't be done for all humans because of the effort or memory required to "manually" fix so many values.

:::Conversely, perhaps ROB will let the virus run its course so It can then safely run a variation of the virus to turn everyone back into humans. That would be another interesting take: when the world's furry in 2020, how will everyone feel when they find out they'll all be human again by about 2055, depending on population, and perhaps if the same thing happens in cycles? ...

:::...Or if it turns out that life has been this way for a long, ''long'' time. Thinking back to what ROB has been able to do, this is easily within Its power. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 05:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::ROB figures it's best to let the virus run its course then neutralize it like I've described. Perhaps ROB's reworking the Experiment to account for the new changes.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Colons! Colons as far as the eye can see! Ahaha.

:::::One little problem I had with ''Accelerando'' (though I did indeed love it in all other respects) was how completely unfathomable the Higher Beings were. You never could figure out what their reasons were for anything…and in fact, in all their interactions with the remnants of pre-Singularity humanity, they mostly seemed to delight in "poking the anthill". Sending boatloads of recreations of historical and fictitious characters out to that space station just to mess with humanity's minds. And not only could you not ask them why, you wouldn't be able to understand their answer if you did. Hence, one of the things that you hope you learn in the end—the question of "why?"—is forever unanswered.

:::::It would be kind of nice to have some of the characters eventually be able to confront ROB and the virus and ask them what the deal was, but I'm not holding my breath any. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 06:22, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::::I'm very, ''very'' careful not to jump the shark. But at the very least ROB does have some empathy for us microbes. While ROB does do some "resimulation" for TGed folk, it absolutely ''will not'' alter memories because that would cause personality death.

::::::Paradise is more similar too ''[http://www.amazon.com/Darwinia-Novel-Different-Twentieth-Century/dp/0812566629 Darwinia]'' than ''Accelerando''. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Another possibility I just thought about: perhaps this isn't the act of a virus at all. Instead this is the fix to an ancient "Human Virus" that infected the universe, and it's just restoring the original experiment (or whatever). Or if you ''really'' want to throw people off: humanity ''is'' the virus itself, and this is how ROB is solving the problem. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 07:25, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

::Well, to be fair, this is a post-Singularity virus. Nobody ever said it was strictly one-function only. For all we know, it may have a behavioral change programmed into it. "Take Z action until condition A is met, then switch to taking Y action until condition B is met, etc." Or heck, the virus itself may be a sentient/sapient digital life form with free will, fully able to "change its mind" when it wants to. Certainly there is some intelligent agency at work behind the Reality Distortion Field that has already shown the ability to change its own behavior or react to changes in infected people's situations (changing TG furs' "ghosts"—and all extant records—from male to female when they get pregnant, for instance). No reason the virus can't be the same way. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 23:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

:How is that going to work? I'm not sure how humanity can propagate by the "same rules" as other furry types given that it's been established humans and furres are not able to interbreed. Perhaps there might be an inverse of the Sleeping Sickness (a Waking Sickness? :) which causes furries to randomly mutate back into human in addition to the other types of furry form? —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 22:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

::Two thoughts: 1) In 2021 there's a group of humans worldwide who don't Change. They're simply the one species among many. After this point they can breed with furres because the RDF is down anyway. Perhaps they can already do this in Bubbled areas in 2010. 2) Human forms can be a recessional trait that shows up on occasion, between two furres.

::Furry babies already look ''very'' human due to a type of neoteny. Even the herbivores like horses and deer have very stubby muzzles. It looks more like a mask when they're born. Within two years those muzzle stubs grow the "baby animal" proportions, then as normal. They're generally more thinly furred for those first two years also. I keep thinking of puppies. No matter what the breed, they all look ''extremely'' similar when newborn. Same will be true in this setting. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, TG and TF will continue. I'm thinking of something akin to Matthias' character, with random changes. It'll be considered a chronic disease. And the severe forms ''can'' kill you. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Possibly the first occurance of ROB ==

As I mentioned when I introduced him, ROB (Random Omnipotent Being) comes from some other message boards I regularly view/visit. Well someone seems to have found what may have been the first occurrence of ROB. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=53955] Pretty humble beginnings for him if you ask me. :) (His brother, COROB (Crossover Obsessed Random Omnipotent Being) similarly had humble beginnings a month or so later. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=55397] )

== The RDF and extra extremities. ==

Assume here that the RDF is functioning normally and hasn't broken down. Normal humans can't feel the extra extremities of the Changed, like tails and horns - they just feel empty air. But what would another Changed see if they were to look at a normal human attempting to touch a Changed's tail? Would they see the human seemingly passing their hand through the tail of the Changed? [[User:CNash|CNash]] 23:52, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

:I think you've got it wrong. Extra extremities can still be physically felt. The RDF is like a holographic cloak around the changed - it doesn't actually have an effect on their form. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 00:57, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:Shadow is basically correct. Their hand wouldn't pass through empty air. They would meet some weird resistance, but they'd forget about it in a short time. Other Changed would see them touch the tail they can't see. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:: I was going by a line in "Made Alone"; CM's diary entry: ''I say, `Oh yeah, here, grab my tail'. He humors me, but he cannot feel it. I feel him put his hand on it, but he just doesn't feel it.'' - I haven't yet read through all the stories and I'm going chronologically. [[User:CNash|CNash]] 11:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:::If there's one thing I've learned about running a shared setting is to ''not'' demand ironclad continuity. I always allow authors leeway for dramatic purposes, and I don't mind if events don't quite match up. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:19, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

::::Given that is the earliest described Change event, I just assumed that the Veil was stronger back then, and since lessened to the extent of allowing feeling of extremities. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 07:32, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

== Glitch ==

Assertion one: Universe of Paradise setting is mathmatically generated by advanced post-singularity computer. Assertion two: Pre-singularity computers have demonstrated randomized renumbering of internal programing due to outside factors. These renumberings are identified as "glitches," having no basis in programming like bugs and viruses. Assumption: Post singularity computer operates with similar if heavily advanced hardware as pre-singularity computer. Conclusion: Randomized renumberings of programming will occur independently of programming. That is to say, it is not inconceivable that somewhere, a coffee cup on the table is suddenly on the counter. Or that an ant becomes a different species of ant. Or that a gray-eyed man one day has blue eyes. Perhaps these small changes are common and constant. -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 05:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

== Species Expansion ==

We have already seen at least one Elephant man. Is the Furry Virus, as it expands, drawing from a larger gene base? And if so, when would the first nonmammalians arise? Personally, I'm expecting crocs in the near future. Perhaps even 2010... -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 22:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

:The setting is mammals only. Reptiles and birds have very different reproductive biologies. Birds wouldn't be able to fly and cold-blooded creatures can't support a human-like brain and its energy requirements. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== An observation ==

From what I've read, the 'computer simulation' theory is just that- a theory. There's no point blank evidence that this is what's happening within the storyline, and, while I obviously shouldn't just stroll in and rewrite things, but I'd ask the main participators in this storyline to keep this in mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- (note added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC))

:Jon is the creator of the setting and he has final say in these things... He has not ruled on this yet, but I think he will if it becomes a problem. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== If a person doesn't TF again next year... ==

Maybe I missed something. Is it right that if a person doesn't TF again the year after they first change, they stop changing for good? Thinking of the story's setting (computer simulation), if the change is caused by a virus, surely it could keep affcting people? If that doesn't make sense I'll expand, but surely someone knows what I'm talking about. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- signature added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] )

:First it's "bear", not "bare" - homophones are a big stumbling point for a large portion of people, so I try to help people where I can with them :)

: Second... Remember that the whole "post-singularity simulation infected by a virus" schtick is just one possible cause. Jon has said that it could be, but has not pinned it on that. If it really is a virus, then there is a possibility that you could change again 20 years down the line. However... It might be that the multi-change people are somehow an exception - like the virus leaves behind a flag saying "infected" (you'll find this with existing computer viruses, actually) and with multi-changers this flag is missing. Or it could be that the multi-changers are actually being created because of ROB trying to undo the damage done by the virus. And a third possibility is that there is no "virus" and the change is happening according to a plan setup by the people that programmed the simulation - and the multi-changers were randomly selected to be multi-changers.

:In other words... Even if you assume that the postulated "post-singularity simulation" is reality the change could be more than a virus and the limits on multiple changes could be somehow tied directly to the purposes that the simulation was created for... Anyway... I've gone on too long with this. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 19:03, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

::Ugh. I actually thought whilst typing, "that's not right, it should be bare..." blast. So much for trying to write a story if I can't do that kind of simple thing.

::Thanks for your help. I'm trying to make sure I understand the setting as best I can so I can make my story (hopefully a series, but maybe I'm being a bit ambitious) as best as possible. I'm trying to break the mould... Most characters in the Paradise setting seem to be similar. If my first attempt works, I might try one with a different character... Actually, I'd probably do it even if it didn't work :) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Just to be clear, it is a simulation running on a post-Singularity cloud of computronium. And it is a virus doing the dirty work. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:34, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:::: *GACK* - Last time I read the setting page that was still a "speculation" bit :( -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

== Human/Furry detail ==

More prattling, sorry. Bear with me (Heh. Got it right this time.).

The information on smaller details in the differences between humans and furs is irritatingly lax, and I hit a block while writing my own story stressing over an incredibly minor detail. My problem aside, I think that the lack of detail makes it awkward to write... Would two characters that changed into the same species be exactly the same anatomically? I'm not sure. A couple of stories have thrown me in that respect, mainly "A Kind of Paradise", and "Twisting the Veil". I feel like I'm having a bit of a whine actually, and should just get on with it, but right now, I feel like speaking my mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:The anatomical differences between furry species can vary, but not so much that they become incompatible with each other. This is why I didn't want to add birds/reptiles/fish/insects. They're just too different. If they're the same species, they're exactly the same. There is a variance in hair (Some have it, some don't) otherwise everyone is firmly anthro rather than, say, animal ears and tail and nothing else. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:37, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I understand why there are only mammals in the setting, personally I think it's a good choice. I wasn't really thinking about the degrees of how human/animalistic people are, but rather what traits they take on when they change. For example, I know that people have commented on changes in sounds and smells, but not sight, is sight affected? And, as for traits, I know that most species of rodents are incapable of vomiting, fox example. But would the humans be affected by this? Of course, I'm not asking for all the details, that would be ridiculous considering the number of possibilities. I just don't want to write something that doesn't follow the rules of the setting. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Actually... Things like that are, IMHO, why the 'Sleeping Sickness' bracelets have been issued. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Um, yes, those. Maybe I haven't been reading the right stories, but to the best of my knowledge, the bracelets are to let doctors know (provided they already know about the whole thing) what you changed into. Have I missed something? (I feel like I'm asking too many questions. Sorry.) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::::There is a mention in one of a changed that was a species to which aspirin is toxic being killed by a doctor prescribing aspirin... I just don't remember which story that was. The stories about Doctor Clay have most of the good information about how changed can suffer from problems/illnesses incumbent to their species. (IIRC there is a judge that starts suffering from a problem only seen in horses - and he's a horse...) -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::::The idea behind the "Sleeping Sickness" bracelets was pretty much a (bad) attempt by a small group at the CDC to get help to Changed. Hospitals were supposed to report such cases that presented in order for doctors in the know to be summoned. It was created essentally with the idea that it wasn't really a workable solution, but the best that could be come up with. The factoid that came up about toxic medications was based on a factoid I heard many years ago, that penicillian has a singular toxicity for rodents. As such, as drug testing is set up today, its unlikely it would ever be approved. The idea is that there is enough transformation that people might pick up certiain toxic reactions to things that they didn't realize. I'm not sure anyone has really gone into depth with this, but I'd think you could infer that some canines would have violent reactions to chocolate, for example. Like all things, there would be some variability, just like some dogs can seem to eat chocolate fine while others it might kill. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 23:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

== Extreame ROB ==

I had an odd thought last night about the implications of what ROB does with respect to rewriting documentation of peoples pasts. ROB has been known to change paperwork, pictures and even apparent histories of people. (Didn't someone in After Hours discover they were supposed to have dated people earlier as the opposite gender?) That got me to thinking about how far this might all go. Assuming that ROB doesn't actually start to mess with memories, will it start to alter older records? Pictures from earlier than the first Change, even for subjects that died before it all started? Paintings? And would they be consistent? Would every painting done of George Washington find the same form? And to take it a few steps further, what about statues? This could get messy... which isn't always a bad thing from a story perspective. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 15:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:I can see that happening more as a result of the furry virus, since that kind of extreme "history editing" feels more malevolent to me than something ROB would do. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 20:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Interesting though that would be, it's an important plot mechanic for there to still be remnants of the human world - Once the entire human race has transformed, they need to still be aware that this has happened - Rewriting history would remove this and it would be as if nothing happened... if you see what I mean? -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

::It would make sense for things to get messy if it were the virus causing it. Sloppy, half rewritten pasts, people not sure of what really happened and what didn't, more like a temporal infection than a careful rewriting. That kind of scare could lead the reader to be a bit more sympathetic about ROB trying to stop the virus's progression. It would also make a great opportunity to go all Serial Experiments Lain on a story and leave people wondering wtf -- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:10, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Furry Sizes ==

What size are furries? It's pretty clear that bears are big and mice are small, and it mostly makes sense to have the same thing (but not as extreme) for anthroid furries, but there are some other size differences I can't so easily imagine. Some guidelines might be helpful. Ferrets in particular, ferret males are often twice as big as ferret females, as is the case of many mustelids, but at the same time both of them are smaller than cats. If I make a female ferret larger than a rat, and a male ferret smaller than a cat, that's starting to leave not so much room to spare. If I had to finagle a scale I'd say

* mice - 1.2 meters (or less!)
* rats - 1.3 meters
* female ferrets, squirrels, minks, etc - 1.4 meters
* male ferrets, ringtails, mongooses - 1.6 meters
* female cats - 1.7 meters
* male cats, skunks, raccoons - 1.8 meters uh...
* big cats and wolves - 1.9-2.0
* big stuff like bears - all the way to 2.2.

But then again it might also be fun to have a 2 metres tall cavy. GEORGE LOVES YOU COME GIVE GEORGE A BIG HUG.

Maybe illustrating size differences between sexes is a bit too piccaunish. >.<
-- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:04, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

:I should personally think that irrelevant. While there's clearly going to be some destinction between heights and races, I think guidelines are unnesecary. People come in all shapes and sizes, this individuallity should be maintained. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

One little detail though, (and it doesn't really apply to me but may for others), removing hippo's, rhino's and elephants from the pool seems to be a bit speciest, considering moose are allowed. In looking at the Wiki, it seems that hippos (1.5meters) and rhinos (2.0 meters) are actually generally smaller or the same size as the largest moose (2.1 metres) species. Elephants seem to average about a meter or two larger than the moose.

Perhaps a better restriction would be to allow any land mammal (and any sea mammal that is between the sizes of the minimum land mammal size and the maximum land mammal size), but set minimum and maximum furre sizes; something like a min of 1.2 metres or 4ft to a max of 2.0 metres or 7ft.

Anyways, I'll try and keep an eye on things and see if I can culture this idea I've got further. - 19:50, 10 January 2008 [[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]

== Human Survival ==

Since the US government, and governments of the world, would have obviously known about the furry changes for many years as government officials became Changed, they logically would have set up Projects (like the Manhattan Project) to study the reasons and try and find a solution. It is obvious to them that the end of humanity will come and this should have all contries of the world enganged in studying the scientific causes of the RDF and ways to affect it. Many of the scientists themselves who get changed would surely want to study the effect. Any physics professor changed would jump at the chance to study it and get the next Nobel prize for figuring it out. It does defy natural laws, therefore the new laws it does follow can be studied. If there is some master computer responsible for the universe, such as in Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, then this it might be possible for a "super computer" build by the UN or whoever to communicate with the ROB virus program or even the Master computer itself, and change it, such as the computer "Obie" in the Well World books. Personally, I favor a different approach. In 1987 a super computer someplace near Chicago DID develop self awareness, predicted that mankind was going to overpopulate and destroy the planet, and it decided to "FIX" things by connecting with the main universal computer at the center of the universe on a night when the least number of galaxies are in the way, which happens to be Aug 17. The governments at some point would find out that the birth rate is on a serious decline even though it is possible for furries to have babies, it is not as common as humans due to all the different genetics and species involved. Mating a horse furry with a rabbit furry is much less likly to produce offspring, for example, that mating a horse furry with another horse furry, so regardless of who was married to who when they are human, statistically the couple won't be able to have children after both change, unless they are the same. Some story about finding the ROB computer near Chicago before 2020 should be a possibility and reasoning with it might be a good solution.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:37, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:The thing is, there is no ROB computer in our world, if I'm understanding what you're saying here. It isn't like Obie or the Well World where it's something inside the Universe itself that's causing the Change. This setting--basically our world--exists as a Planck-level simulation space inside a post-Singularity posthuman computer. There are two viruses (also posthuman, slightly more advanced) responsible for the Change: A relatively controllable TG virus, and the much newer "furry virus" that ROB can't contain with "history editing".
Keep in mind that governments didn't really know this was even happening until the early 2000s.
Otherwise, the RDF/Change as a source of study for physicists is a good angle.
-- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:57, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::I just hate to plug but if you want an example of how goverments might screw up the change read my story [[User:Fibio|Cascade Failure]]
-- [[User:Fibio|Fibio]] 20:42, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::Of course, in a way it's kind of pointless even to know about it, since I can't really foresee any way that it could ever become a plot point within the story itself. I can't really see humanity figuring out how to "hack" its way out.
It doesn't really make that much of a difference, from an in-universe standpoint, to assume that it's all being done by "magic". (Any sufficiently advanced technology…) —- [[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 21:23, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Pretty much [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityWarper] all around. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thanks folks for all the replies to my post! People to talk to! OK, first JonBuck, I am not really sure I understand all the Plank-level simulation space inside a post-singularity posthuman supercomputer stuff (I did try to look up the story Accelerando but I just found a book cover) but I interpret this to mean: Plank-Level = really really small; simulation space = not real or temporary space in computer memory; post-singularity = after a black hole evaporates in about a few trillion years; post human = mankind extinct; supercomputer = something like the Cosmic AC in [http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html] ?

However, my ignorance aside, regardless of what the supercomputer is, or what we are, it would in effect be God. Now ROB could represent the devil, or if God has gone crazy, the savior. ROB either was created by the supercomputer "GOD" on purpose or by accident, it was created by a simulation universe, either our own, a past one, or another running concurrently, to infect God, or it was created by God's creators as some part of the God computer for some purpose and function, and if that is the case then either it is carrying out its intended program or it has malfunctioned. I think that is a complete list of all possible options, so if I have missed one then please let me know.

You stated, "It comes from outside the post-Singularity brain, and is slightly more advanced than "ours". What's happening is this bit of malicious code (sentient, no less, but on a level far beyond our ability to comprehend it) is messing up the simulated world we reside in. Why? I dunno. One of those inscrutable things." This sentient "virus" needs to have come from one of the posibilities above, and I suppose it is up to you to decide which, but since "you dunno", then I will try to help.

I guess the first question is "Why did God create the universe?" which translated means "Why is the supercomputer running the simulation?" Is the goal good or evil? Perhaps the supercomputer was programed to do so for an evil purpose by its creators, and ROB is sort of like its concience it has developed and wants to mess up the experiment before it can produce evil results. I would favor ROB being good, instead of evil, perhaps trying to produce a different result that will end up doing good than if the simulation ran to completion on its present course. However, that being said, if ROB is a computer virus, and based on logic and programable, and is expending energy to maintain the RDF, scientists studying that might find a way to..either communicate with it, grab its attention, or annoy it. I believe that enabeling some communication with it, even though we won't understand it completly, would produce some interesting stories.

Fibeo, I had previously read your story and just re-read it. By the way it is fine to plug :) When I read it the first time I thought that it really did not fit in with the rest of the stories since it involved time travel. In the context of a simulation, that would mean more than one running at one time, all on different timelines, and being able to hop between them. Maybe ROB is trans-simulation and could have helped this, but I really don't see how anyone in a simulation could get the supercomputer running it to re-set it to a prior time point and insert someone from a future point. It was an interesting story however and I did enjoy reading it.

Robotech, "magic" is a nice simple explanation to explain the unexplainable, but mankind strives for answers, it seeks to understand, and predict and ultimately control those things it can not immediately explain. Faced with an unexplainable force that is threatening mankind itself with extintion, mankind will use all resourses at its disposal, spare no espence, bring the greatest scientific minds, changed and unchanged to work on studying and solving the problem. It may be futile, we may never be able to win against the Gods, but it is the nature of mankind to TRY! You mentioned it is unlikly manking could "hack" its way out. That would be one possibility, since mathematics would likly be the same for both us and the supercomputer and ROB which are both based on mathmatics and logic. however, there are possibities for stories regarding that attempt..and could be very interesting. If I was a writer, I might even try writing one, but who knows...I might anyways.

Back to JonBuck. The link was to an article about people thinking something and it becoming real. Much too powerful, sort of like...writers!
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:Okay. I'm going to clarify some concepts here.
:The Singularity I'm referring to is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity Technological_singularity] . Nothing to do with gravity. A [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman further entry on posthumanism] , and its close relation, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanist Transhumanist]. By Planck-level I mean, basically, the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units smallest length in the universe] . Everything down to those levels is "simulated".
:Moving on, the kind of questions you bring up I actually don't want to deal with. The reason I'm using the ROB acronym in the first place is to avoid overtly religious connotations. I realize that they're very important, but it's otherwise such a contentious issue in the real world. I really don't want to see any "communicating with ROB" stories.
:Post-Singularity intelligences are by nature inscrutable (I've seen Stross refer to them as "Weakly Godlike Entities" in his books). At this point ROB has switched to a "salvage mode" by making direct changes to the "simulation" in the form of alleviating energy crises (a huge concern of mine at the time I wrote most of my stories in this setting) and climate change.
:''Accelerando'' is actually [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerando_%28book%29 available for free].
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:27, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks for the reply Jonbuck, the links were very helpful and I have a clearer idea what you are talking about now. It is going to take me a while to read all the stories.
::I used religious words to describe ideas simply that are familiar but did not mean in any way to be controversial.
::I will try over the next few weeks to put together a short story within your constraints, and if it exceeds your limits we can just change it. I plan to make one assumption, and that is that a simulation is defined by rules set for it that need to be obeyed for it to continue running. ROB changing the speed of light in the simulation for example would be such a fundamental change in everything that it would break the entire simulation, i.e. crash the program. ROB can only work within the rules set for the simulation, agreed?
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:12, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :) At this point the simulation is being salvaged to prevent social chaos, death, and extinction of the people inside it.
:::There's a novel out that has some very similar ideas and influenced a lot of how I set up this setting: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_%28novel%29 ''Darwinia'' by Robert Wilson] .
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:22, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply JonBuck, I can work with that, and will post something in a few weeks for your feedback.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

== About ('''2004''') '''''Victory Starts Here''''' ==

OK, JonBuck, I lied and posted the story in just 2 days. I could not stop thinking about it. I got as far as I could. Could you please read it and then tell me the results of each of the experiments before I can continue in the next one? Thanks!
[[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:17, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

:After the "server crash" of 2011; the original story [[User:Enphilistor|Victory Starts Here]] (by [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] ) is now avalaible (in a very crude, text only format) in the Talk Page of it´s creator: [[User_talk:Enphilistor| Victory Starts Here]]
: -- [[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think I will just have to decide for myself how the experiments turn out and just hope you approve. One of my goals in the stories I plan to write is to explain "scientifically" all the effects you have going on here are consistent with all universal laws. If you are running a program, you can't change the code of the program while it is running. You can change the code but only by stoping the program from running and recompiling it. So anything ROB is doing has to be done inside the simulation following the rules of the simulation (under the premise of the stories I plan to write). It is really not going to be easy for the scientists(i.e. me) to explain the changes to the past records, or why they start off only being change a few years back, then all the way back to the day someone was born, and undoing history such as marriages. And remember, I can't have ROB using "magic", ROB is in the simulation and has to be constrained to its rules. Because of this constraint, ROB needs a "body" someplace and a supply of "energy" from somewhere, to direct and power all these changes. I hope you enjoy my next story, that should be entiteld something like "Victory Continues", where Paul has to cope with being a female pig, and the scientists recieve some confusing results on the origin of the signals they record.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 22:27, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

:Not really. If ROB is outside of the simulation, there's nothing to stop it from pausing the simulation and reworking the fabric of it as necessary. It's like pausing the Sims and placing new walls or whatever. As far as the Sim-people are concerned, those walls might as well as have always been there, even if we (the players) know better. ROB is not inside the simulation, ROB is the player(s) outside the simulation. In no sense does ROB need to obey any rules within the simulation, nor does it need act within the laws of the simulation to change the simulation. By definition anything ROB does is going to be 'magic' because turning people into furries, or editing history, isn't something that's allowed within physical laws. Most of the transformations directly violate the law of the conservation of mass and energy, for example.
:I don't mean to rain on your parade, and I'm clearly not Mr Buck (who might disagree with my explanation), but it seems like you're not quite getting the setting, as I understand it. Hope that helps.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 07:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

::Got it in one, Honeymane. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:30, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

JonBuck said, Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :)

In addition, since ROB hates paradoxes, and will go to such extremes as making sure each child will have both a biological father and a mother and never 2 fathers or 2 mothers, following the rule of conservation in energy and mass is necessary to avoid such paradoxes on an even more fundamental level and in any case easily achieved. If you read my story, that exact experiment has been set up to measure this. Since it is so easy to maintain mass and energy balance, which you will see in the next story, there is no reason to violate this universal law. Imagine the effect on the simulation if you try to break this rule either while it is running or "pausing" it. A calculation is in the process of being made on an object between it and every other object in the universe. In the middle of the calculation a zero is entered (E = mC^2, so if you are going to, C is either zero, which crashes the program and is not what JonBuck said, or as m goes to zero, then c goes to infinity which also changes the velocity of light constant which JobBuck said would not happen). Some calculations have already been performed and other calculations in progress have end up with a divisor of zero. You crash the program when you restart it, as the zero divisor propagates in all the calculations throughout the universe.

In any case, mankind will try and study these effects, and my stories will be mostly concerned with these attempts. However, when I say all laws have to be obeyed, that does not mean all laws that humans know about, it can include new ones. It may be that the results of the experiments will lead them to conclude that something is breaking the laws of the universe because they don't understand them all, but ROB will know what it is doing. I imagine it like this. The main computer can't use its antiviral programming to stop ROB as long as ROB is hiding in the simulation and following the rules in the simulation, but if ROB breaks the rules, and crashes it, he becomes exposed with no place to hide and gets zaped. You will see that in the next story, that ROB is still just as powerful to the same "magic" as it can is now, and still be consistent with all stories that have happened, and the setting JonBuck has set up. JonBuck has not really explained the interaction between the main computer and the virus or any protections or why they are not working. In any case, it doesn't matter what i think, since the stories I plan don't mention this at all, they will be consistent with either ROB being inside or outside the simulation, only what the beings in the simulation measure is in the stories. Just trust me, the story will be interesting and fun, and if JonBuck says no to some result after he reads it, I will change it. Fair?
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 01:54, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I haven't had time to read your story yet. Frankly, reading your comments here I'm getting a little antsy over what exactly the impact it would have on the overall setting. I think you're over-analyzing the setting, frankly. You're asking questions about it that I really can't answer.
:Also, use colons in front of your paragraphs to make them indent and create a "nested" topic. And put a blank line between paragraphs. Thanks.
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:21, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

::For JonBuck I had intentionally not been using indents so that my comments would be totally left justified and everyone the replies for everyone else indented, make it easier in my view to keep things organized. But if you prefer indents, I am easy.
::I had assumed that you had already read the story. It would be good for me to get some feedback on that since none of the things we discuss here are really in it, but may impact it.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think you're confusing the 'players' here. First, there's the computer that all the "real" characters (ie the characters in the story) exist in. ROB 1 is likely someone running the computer, perhaps for anthropological reason, perhaps because they're bored. ROB 2 is unrelated to ROB 1, but for one reason or another, has managed to add a virus program to ROB 1's simulation, causing problems. There are at least 2 viruses that JonBuck has discussed; one that changes gender, and one that changes people into furries, we could, however, imagine that there may have been other viruses in the past, that eventually ROB 1 removed. For example, Atlantis might have been real, and so might have the Greek/etc gods. Atlantians were gifted technology beyond what they should have, and ROB 1 deleted the island to save the program, ROB might have also deleted the Gods, for whatever reason, etc. I'm just speculating here. Now, either ROB can't remove the virus like it did the other problems, or it realized that altering reality was screwing with the program's purpose (such as anthropological study) So rather than delete the TG or TF viruses, ROB 1 created a program to try and mitigate the virus's effects. This program is what causes the history editing (etc).
:Both these viruses exist within the programing of the Computer, but not on a level that would appear to anyone in the program. It's important to remember that time doesn't necessarily pass like it does within the computer; the virus could get it's work done in a nanosecond. Everything else, the sickness, the slow change, all these might be part of the mitigation program's efforts to prevent anyone from changing in public, and to change so suddenly they lose their minds, nor without warning. But there's no reason to think that this computer virus is operating through something like an actual virus, or that the changes are visible on a cell level before the change occurs, even in those showing the signs of the change.
:But again, this is just me talking, not Buck. But I do strongly suggest you hold off writing too much more until Jon has a chance to review your story, or else you might very well find yourself writing something based on ideas that JonBuck doesn't like/want in his setting.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: For Honeymane It is really difficult to hit a moving target. I have not seen in any of the stories and discussions or JonBuck's guidlines about prior activity of ROB. As for ROB1, ROB2, ....ROBN, only one master computer has been mentioned and only one ROB virus. In my understanding, the main comupter has created a SIMULATION. The main computer is infected with a much smaller and more limited "few lines of code" virus, that the beings on one planet in the SIMULATION call the random omnipotent being, but this being is only omnipotent comparted to us, not compared to the main computer. I do not see ROB having the same power to shut down the simulation, pause it, change the rules in it or perform any of the jobs the main computer does.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I see ROB as much more limited. It needs to avoid detection of the antiviral programs, it can't attract their attention, it needs to work by stealth, it is a virus after all, it can't do things that say, "here I am!". And this all follows from things JonBuck has indicated. If he wants to say ROB = main computer in all powers, then well, fine, but he has not done so. He has not defined the motives of ROB or the main computer. when asked, he has said, " I dunno". Given that void, since I need to write in that setting, I find myself creating possible motives for them in my mind.
:It makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, but it helps me limiting ROB to viral powers and behaviors, not mainfraim abilities. A virus has 2 main goals, to keep itself alive and to reproduce itself. ROB may or may not have the second goal, but it will have the first. While doing this in any enviornment, it may cause side effects. Imagine ROB as a biological virus, and a living cell as the simulation that is growing inside a body that is the mainframe. At one time ROB was outside the cell, in the body (mainframe) where lots of antibodies (antiviral programs) were hunting for it. By entering the cell, it is now hidden from the body's defenses. However, if the cell gets sick or dies(ROB crashes the cell simulation) before ROB has either left the cell or reached a state of reproduction where that is desireable, then the body will just devower the cell and grow a new one. So in my scenario, perhaps ROB realized that the purpose of the simulation was about to be achieved, and since ROB is not ready to reproduce, it is messing with the simulation, hyjacking it as a virus hyjacks the DNA of a Cell, to keep the simulation alive longer than it would otherwise, so that it won't reach the conditions for termination, until it can make other copies of itself to infect other simulations. Who knows, maybe with enough copies of itself it can take over the mainfraim. Alternatively, its work at transforming mankind may be the way it is going about reproducing. Alternatively, ROB might have realized the simulation was about to produce a failed reslut which would have terminated the simulation and it is acting to keep itself alive by preventing failure conditions.
:In any case it makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, JonBuck had declined to actually be clear on this, and it really does not matter. The beings in the simulations don't know this, and it is difficult to think of any way they could ever find out. Well actually I could, because I am like that. One way would be if ROB tells them, and since Jonbuck said no comunication with ROB, that won't happen. Another if the mainfram sends a COR (Correcting Omnipotent Being) into the simulation (...and God sent his only begotten son...that type of idea) and told people.
:The second story is half done, and I plan to continue writing it since I have it all layed out in my mind. Hopefully Jonbuck will read the first story and give some feedback before I finish, but I believe he will approve of both stories in any case. And if not, I will change them.
: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: *puts on peacemaker and teacher hats*
:: From what I can tell you're looking for an explicit statement of something that has been implicit in the setting design since the start...
:: Where the Solar System once sat is now a cloud of what you could call "Computronium". Inside this computer are many, many simulations. Whether these simulations are the creation of a separate physical being or the uploaded minds of people is a moot point - we'll never see the "real world". (btw, ROB could actually be an AI that was once a person...)
:: The stories all take place inside one of these simulations that has picked up a couple of viruses somewhere. One of them has been around since at least the late 70's (IIRC, this is mentioned in one of Jon's stories) and the other didn't appear until 1987. The one that showed up in 1987 - the "furry virus" - is newer and initially ROB had tried to contain it using the "Perception Filter". When it somewhat "merged" with the TG virus the simulation got a lot more unstable and ROB had to start including things in its "containment" to help combat that instability. That is the "history revision" stuff. It also is the cause of the changes to married couples with children - because it was seeing potential causes of instability (no more mother/father) and fixing it as it could.
:: There is no "ROB" actually in the simulation - think about the game "The SIMS"... In that game you are the ROB - the creator and maintainer of the simulation. And you can "Pause" the simulation, make changes and restart it. In this case at least the entirety of the solar system is part of the simulation and every time ROB has to make a change it "pauses" the simulation, makes the changes and then hits the "normal speed" button. Now... there might be some people in the world that are actually from outside the sim, but they'd never make themselves known - and they could, probably, act like the ROB and remove any evidence of themselves (outside of memories) from the sim.
:: -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 04:21, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

::: I think a lot of the problems here is a misunderstanding of the source material I'm drawing inspiration for this setting from. Honeymane and ShadowWolf have both described things well. (Though I'm going to bump the TG virus back a few more centuries). A few points.
:::: * ROB exists outside the simulation. Other ROBs are not important. The Virus is not a ROB. However, ROB isn't really a physical being either, as SW describes.
:::: * The Virus originates outside the simulation. Who and what originally made it is a moot point.
:::: * The intent of said "virus" (the term only fits loosely) is to throw a monkeywrench into ROB's simulation of our universe. The reason why it hasn't been contained is that it was created by a slightly more advanced post-Singularity Mind than ROB. Since ROB can't contain it, ROB can only mitigate.
:::: * Essentially, the two virii are intended to cause social chaos via random transformations. It doesn't exist to propagate itself to other simulations. In the first case, a "quarantine" of sorts was created via modifying the present records of those TGed to reflect their new gender. If it was true history editing neither the person transformed nor the people who knew them would remember what they'd been. What ROB is changing are just the present physical objects.
:::Honestly, go read Part 2 of Accelerando. It was originally started as short stories, so you can pick it up there. That's where a lot of the concepts for Paradise started.
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 05:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, it seems terminology is messing me up. I was under the apparently mistaken belief that ROB was the virus, and the Mainfraim running the simulation(s). I believed this because the virus was random and chainging someone to a furry is sort of mildy omnipotent. Yes, I fully agree that if ROB = Mainfraim(or AI who might have once been human) then ROB must definatly outside the simulation. My comments were consering only the virus(es) that are causing the transgender/furry transformations.
Let me call the form that can do either one or the other or both, the Random Omnipotent Virus, ROV for short so there will be no misunderstandings. I can see ROB stoping the simulation and making corections, eliminating divisions by zero and all that. However, ROV should not have those abilities, being just a lowly virus, compared to ROB. The stories I wish to write constrain ROV to using the same old laws that existed in 1987, and prior to that if there was the TG virus. The universe we live in now was supposed to be identical to that one until 1987, I would like that ROV should be handicaped a little by the rules ROB created for the simulation. A simulation is to test SOMETHING, and if you start changing the rules (ie laws of nature) your results are just not going to simulate the conditions you wanted to in the real world, where you don't have the power to change the laws of nature.
The experiments the humans are setting up in my first story will indicate only the effects being caused by ROV. If ROV is outside or inside the simulation does not really matter, but if ROV can behave just like ROB, then that study is just not going to produce anything interesting either scientifically, or plot wise. Such violations of the laws of nature might just scream at them "There really must be a god involved." and we never want them to know or suspect ROB or the true nature of ROV. To have a scientific study, I would like ROV to follow the laws of the universe, for any of the reasons described here and in prior posts. I will work out some reasons that make sense to the humans for all things happening regarding the transformations, to keep them studying and not just throw up their hands in frustration, if that is ok.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]]

== Count of Changed in 1997 ==

Hello! I'm new here, but I really like this setting and read probably most of the stories. I even made my own table in Excel to draw the changing numbers as a graphic (Also for my hometown to get a grip on the numbers). And there I noticed something:

Maybe I just missed a story or paragraph where it is explained, but shouldn't there be 1024 Changed in 1997 instead of 1028? Where do the additional 4 Furries come from? I know this is just minor, but the error is kept through the following years till the end and all the numbers are wrong (It doesn't however change the fact that 2020 is the last year).

It's not so important, but it's been bugging me since I noticed it. -- [[User:TigeR|TigeR]] 15:53, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:Check out the [[Paradise (Setting)]] page. It has all the numbers. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

:: Jon, you do have a +4 in 1997 over a strict doubling. This is what he was pointing out and asking questions about. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: And fixed! -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:37, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: This error went a heck of a lot deeper and its possible that the skew-factor introduced in 1997 effected the percentages as time went into the future - however... I fixed this by hand and then verified the figures against a program that output every power of two from zero to the 33rd. As it stands this table now has correct figures for the furry population and one can only assume that the historical figures for population are correct and the projection fits the curve correctly. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:55, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Paradise:The Soundtrack ==

Not sure about anyone else, but I find music to be a major inspiration.. Well of course it

is... the song "Strangers by Yoko Kanno" got this series off the ground did it not?

So I decided to put together a soundtrack, it's not available for download because I own

none of these songs... But if you happen to have them, you can arrange them in your iPod

Playlist, if you want.. I mean I'm not forcing ya, it's just a possibility.

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0b58V573l8 '''Yoko Kanno''' - Strangers -_Wolf's Rain - Strangers by Sori Smile-_ ] <- { The begining of ALL of this... }

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IroHea5FOj8 '''Bliss 66''' - Not Quite Paradise ] <- {''This song pretty much hits the entire series on the head... (It's from the ending of [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb2aMjprmdo Titan A.E.], damn good movie, do see it sometime)''}

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqds0B_meys '''Three Days Grace''' - Animal I Have Become]

: '''Iris''' - Goo Goo Dolls

: '''Mighty Bosstones''' - Impression That I Get

: '''Lee Brotherton''' - Dream Of An Asbolution

: '''Cash Cash''' - Speak With Your Heart

: '''Eminem''' - Beautiful

: '''Shania Twain''' - Man I Feel Like A Woman

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE9zpOyNDoA '''Chip Tha Ripper''' - SLAB Freestyle -_What Are You Inside? - Furries In A Blender_- ] <- { ''Joke YouTube Entry'' }

: '''Tears For Fears''' - Everybody Wants To Rule The World

: '''Foo Fighters''' - The Pretender

and finally:

: '''John Mayer''' - Waiting On The World To Change

I think I forgot some, but yeah, definitely these. - [[User:Hawl|Hawl]] (1/10/11, 1:55 PM)

: The new ''metadata format'' for the songlist is: %'''Artist'''% - %Songtitle% -_%YTtitle%-_ <- {%''comment''%}

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8IujL8_sMI '''Stanfour''' - For All Lovers] <- { ''My Favorite ; "...For all the Changeds, and Believers..."'' }

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4w3lPYoBX8 '''Stanfour''' - Everything Has Changed]

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjlM_RnsVE '''Skillet''' - Monster]

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-makfpBrSQ '''Three Days Grace''' - Never too late]

: -- [[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:50, 03 February 2011 (UTC)

User talk:Argamis

2011-02-03T21:01:28Z

Argamis:

My personal in-wiki forum.

Thanks for restoring the Paradise Talk page! --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 17:49, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

:It's just something important that need someone to work on it A.S.A.P.
:After the crash, the setting lost the most newer storys and the enrichment data inside their related Talk_Pages. But maybe it´s posible the recover of these storys -> [http://www.archive.org/web/web.php Internet Wayback Machine] in the far-far future (when the data gets very old, its then available there).
:. . .
: If the "Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like an array that canalize the flow of "hot ideas" through it´s "insulated tube-rules" (preventing the "leaking and cooling" of the new storys in their necesary "plot-curves" and "bottlenecks-dramas"). . .
:Then the "Talk:Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like the Virtual Remote Control Panel for that powergrid. :When a new "hot idea" pop up in the wrong place or it´s going the wrong direction, a colision alarm sound there!. Already resolved discussions divert automatically the issue, for original new ones, at last offer a series of nearby "exhaust valves" designed for the protection of the "global setting" system.
:--[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 21:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

User talk:Argamis

2011-02-03T21:01:00Z

Argamis:

My personal in-wiki forum.

Thanks for restoring the Paradise Talk page! --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 17:49, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

:It's just something important that need someone to work on it A.S.A.P.
:After the crash, the setting lost the most newer storys and the enrichment data inside their related Talk_Pages. But maybe it´s posible the recover of these storys -> [http://www.archive.org/web/web.php Internet Wayback Machine] in the far-far future (when the data gets very old, its then available there).
:. . .
: If the "Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like an array that canalize the flow of "hot ideas" through it´s "insulated tube-rules" (preventing the "leaking and cooling" of the new storys in their necesary "plot-curves" and "bottlenecks-dramas"). . .
:Then the "Talk:Paradise_(Setting)" page it´s like the Virtual Remote Control Panel for that powergrid. :When a new "hot idea" pop up in the wrong place or it´s going the wrong direction, a colision alarm sound there!. Already resolved discussions divert automatically the issue, for original new ones, at last offer a series of nearby "exhaust valves" designed for the protection of the "global setting" system.
--[[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 21:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

User talk:Argamis

2011-02-03T20:59:51Z

Argamis:

Talk:Paradise (Setting)

2011-02-03T15:25:30Z

Argamis: changed the ''metadata format'' for the songlist

It's an interesting setting, what I've read so far, and I've got an idea or two percolating that may or may not come to fruition. A seed is trying to sprout for an idea starting in '05 and going forward.

One little detail though, (and it doesn't really apply to me but may for others), removing hippo's, rhino's and elephants from the pool seems to be a bit speciest, considering moose are allowed. In looking at the Wiki, it seems that hippos (1.5meters) and rhinos (2.0 meters) are actually generally smaller or the same size as the largest moose (2.1 metres) species. Elephants seem to average about a meter or two larger than the moose.

Perhaps a better restriction would be to allow any land mammal (and any sea mammal that is between the sizes of the minimum land mammal size and the maximum land mammal size), but set minimum and maximum furre sizes; something like a min of 1.2 metres or 4ft to a max of 2.0 metres or 7ft.

Anyways, I'll try and keep an eye on things and see if I can culture this idea I've got further. - 19:50, 10 January 2008 [[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]

== Theory on how the Change 'spreads' ==

Been thinking about how it might spread, such that we have a higher proportion of Changed in NA, but not leaving the rest of the world out, and I think I know how.

The 'computer virus' that Changes people, uses the RDF to spread itself. Our 'program's' own protection method is also spreading the damages.

Basically, I am guessing that if the RDF needs to kick in on you, then you are passively 'infected'.

Then, when August 17th comes around, the Virus triggers itself, but it for whatever reason can only copy itself for every previously Changed person. (The Doubling effect), and it can only affect people that have been passively infected, ie people who have had the RDF kick in on them.

The goal of the virus is to spread as far as it can, so it takes the number of new Changed it can, and spreads it more or less evenly across the available (RDF-affected) population.

So the first Changed is in Chicago (I think). Through the year until the next Change, she will encounter thousands of people, even in passing, which triggers the RDF on them and passively infects them.

Come August, 1988, the next Changed will be picked randomly from those thousands of people, and now we'll have 2 people spreading the RDF virus. 1989, a big chunk of Chicago has probably had the RDF trigger at least once, not to mention some tourists and other visitors to the city.

In 89, we get 2 more Changed, and one of them could possibly be in a different random city, just because he'd been to Chicago in the past 2 years and unknowingly seen a Changed, and a new nest of RDF-field affected people starts up.

European and Asian and Oceanic outbreaks could happen in years to come as the number of tourists and business people from those reasons travel into North America and begin to be fielded and infected themselves.

The 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City probably 'infected' most of the people who were around and watching, meaning that by then (if not before) pretty much anyone has a chance to be Changed.

It also means that truly isolated areas of the world (South Pacific islands, isolated Amazonian tribes, etc) could potentially be unchanged after the 2020 deadline; but any encounter at all with a Changed would likely Change them immediately and spread like wildfire through the village)

And while the RDF may 'fail' at some point, it'll probably still be around in a less effective form, trying to maintain some stability and spreading the Change. --[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]
:I'll give that some thought. It's somewhat similar to something I already had in mind. Perhaps those who have the RDF fail completely will be much more likely to change the next year, or they might even change out-of-phase. In any case, once they figure out that it's like a communicable disease, and everyone is already 'infected', the remaining humans will go nuts. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 12:35, 27 January 2008 (EST)

== Change and disabilities? ==

I keep forgetting to bring this up on IRC, but how do people (as in writers and other interested people in this setting) think disabilities would be affected by the change? Both Mental and Physical?

Would a paraplegic who lost his legs in an accident regrow them if he changed? Would he regain the use of them if they weren't lost but just disabled? (back injury)? What about false teeth, deafness, blindness, etc?

What if the cause was not from a physical accident, but was viral or bacterial in nature? Some disease struck them blind? Would they stay blind?

And what if the disabilities were genetic? Would those genetic flaws still show in the new form?

Finally, what about mental disabilities? Could the Change 'cure' Alzheimer's? Would it affect someone who is literally a brain dead vegetable on life support?

If it does have curative properties, I suspect we'll start seeing more and more miracle cures (assuming they can survive the flu) in the years to come. Which may imply that there'll be a push in the early to mid 2010's to just keep someone alive as long as possible in the home they Change and are cured/fixed.

Thoughts?

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 11:00, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:I think there are good arguments to be made for some healing properties of the Change, but I wouldn't make it go all out. A person missing a limb should still be missing a limb after the change (I have in mind a scene with a one-armed pianist who goes monkey and starts playing with his feet).

:When it comes to things like Alzheimer's, that is a much more difficult choice. I don't see mental retardation being suddenly healed by the Change, as that is a birth defect (and such things happen in animals too). But progressive diseases may backtrack, even if the conditions begin to return over time. That could make an even more painful story, somebody suffering from Alzheimer's, who Changes and now recognizes all his family again. But after a year or so everything starts to slip away again...

:Anyway, the whole keeping folks alive and hoping for a Change could make a good dynamic too. I just think there's a lot fo possibilities to consider before we make a decision on this. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:24, 4 February 2008 (EST)
::I'm inclined to do as Matthias suggests. It's more or less what I had in mind. However, one of the things that the Change does is it puts everyone in very good health. Even being a 300 pound female bear, CM is in very good shape. It will cure some ailments, and put chronic diseases into remission. Those developments will confuse the medical community enough without regrowing limbs or curing Down's Syndrome. But if you've read the latest Tall Tales, ROB is being forced to act more openly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 15:40, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:What happens to medical devices like heart pacemakers or hip replacements that were implanted in people before they changed? --[[User:JeniSkunk|Jenifur Charne]] 20:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::That's basically an open-ended question. I'm going to leave the answer to that one unsaid because I think it'd be a good Plot Point in a story. A furry episode of ''House'' maybe? --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::Late into the discussion, but better late than never. : ) Anyway, what about things like fillings and caps on teeth? Going to a dentist would be interesting. Going another step, outside medical devices wouldn't fit anymore and would bring up some unique delimas. What about people with prosthetics? If someone turns into a bear, I'm sure their leg isn't going to fit anymore, yet Unknown will wonder why they make such a claim all of a sudden. Lots of places to go with these stories. [[User:Tinbender|Tinbender]] 21:24, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Hey, not really sure on any of the points raised, have to give it some thought. One thing to consider though is can anthro's act as a bridge to humans for viruses that currently only affect animals?--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 23:35, 10 February 2008 (EST)

== A mortal analysis of Paradise ==

Lets me see if I get some of the details right.

There is a post-singularity Uber-computer, that when projected into 3-space, has the same consistency as humanity's combined thumbnail and happens to be running a simulation of the events leading up to its own creation. Secondly, it gets infected by a super-bug/virus that makes borg nano-probes look overly large and cumbersome. Said post-singularity, sentient, ROB-type entity/ virus changes some lines of code (if such things can be referred to as such) in reference to the people in the simulation, in and around the vicinity of Chicago (maybe the super-bug's designers had way-distant ancestors from there, or whose ancestors had a grudge against the place). The Uber-comp, in a flash of inspiration counters with the 'firewall-from-not-heck', or RDF as we understand it. The ROB is still successful with its dastardly and despicable plan to make the simulated history end differently.

That I get as far as it can be understood by a three-dimensional entity not particularly versed in post-singularity, multi-dimensional physics and computational theory.

The RDF, The Veil, The "Really-Annoying-Mess-Up-Everyones-Lives" Field, appears to start collapsing or 'twisting' in several personal accounts. In fact, it would seem that there are certain individuals who have appeared to figure out means of 'gazing-past' the gaps in said previously mentioned field even though they do not have one of their own. Yes it has been theorized that they will soon fall victim to the ROB, however, consider that all of this is in one sense mere coding (albeit it happens to be far more complex than that), and that said people are taking advantage of 'bugs' in the code. How many bugs are there? Is it possible for someone (probably a changed, or mad scientist) to 'tune' or 'tinker' with the field, probably no more than tweaks to appearance or color? I know the Primary Engineer Of This Work has stated that there are no 'powers', but then again, this is all just code, and hackers can sometimes be just mortal.

Just a thought or two. I should probably stop this monologue before a super spy shows up.
~midon~

:You're pretty close overall, though the simulation doesn't necessarily have to be of the ROB's own creation. Human Earth could be something It came up with all by Itself. Another book that's similar to what I've come up with here is ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_(novel) Darwinia]''. Someone suggested that the best thing for the ROB to do is to restore from backup. The thing is, these are still people. ROB doesn't have a moral problem with allowing them to die within the sim, but will act to protect both itself and its people from an outside threat. Hence the RDF and other measures.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 17:46, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Thinking far future... ==

First, to make it VERY clear, I am NOT thinking of any stories or anything set in the 2020 period yet. I've just been thinking of how the world may be like by then, as the last half are about to change.

I suspect there would be a mix of celebration (the last humans are joining us!) and mourning (humans will no longer be as they were). Regionally, there will probably be searches for the "last human baby", the ones born days/hours before the last Aug 17 change; they'd probably be local celebrities, similar to "New Years Babies"

And in 2021, the nervousness would start. Is the change source gone? Is it mutating? Are we going to change further? Or into something else now? For the Changed Generation, that little shiver of fear every August 17th will probably persist until they are all gone.

All that assumes civilization hasn't fallen apart by then of course. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:42, 25 February 2008 (EST)

== Summer Olympics ==

This was nagging at the back of my mind a bit, but I finally nailed it down to actually check dates:

:"The 2008 Summer Olympics, officially known as the Games of the XXIX Olympiad, will be celebrated from August 8, 2008 to August 24, 2008".

For the record, the 2004 Olympics also just straddled the Change day, having started on Aug 13th. No other Summer Olympics have straddled Change day, but the 1996 games ended just before it, and the Paralympic Games that year did straddle the Change day.

The 2012 games in London curiously have a break between the end of the Olympics on Aug 12, 2012, and the start of the Paralympics on Aug 29.

Just something to think about for writers out there. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:The Change takes place right in the middle of the Olympics. All it takes is for one or two athletes to change to gum up the works. These people are already in top physical shape, too. But what happens when a swimmer becomes a dolphin, an otter, or perhaps something that doesn't swim well? I don't think the RDF can handle becoming as large as a rhino. They'll still displace an awful lot of water when they splash in.

:I'll have to mention this in Open Secrets.

:--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:53, 27 February 2008 (EST)

::At least the illness will be a bit of a cover. Depending on how many Changed athletes there are, (both active and new Changed), the illness could be used to skip out on some events out of necessity.

::Still the pressure to perform, even if their form is inappropriate for the sport (A Bull trying to do a polevault or the triathlon in general? A bear for gymnastics? A Mouse in weightlifting? ) will be intense

::There would probably be a lot of discussion when a star athlete suddenly isn't performing as well as they did before.

::Of course, a few years after that, the Beijing Olympics here will probably end up with a * like the LA and Moscow Olympics, as people find out about the Change and the number of ringers (otters in swimming events, felines and primates in gymnastics, gazelles and cheetahs in track events, bears and bulls in weight lifting, etc...) semi-intentionally sent by the various countries. We could very well see TTC-level problems happening in Olympic Village.

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== What happens ''after'' 2020? ==

Point one: Computer programs are never ''intrinsically'' equipped with an off-switch. Rather, a shutdown condition must be explicitly coded into a program -- and any program which ''lacks'' an explicit shutdown condition, will continue to chug merrily along until something hardware-ish gets in the way.

Point two: The Change is the result of a 'furry virus", ''i.e.,'' a '''computer program'''.

2020 is when the entire planetary population will be furry... but who's to say the 'furry virus' won't ''continue'' to do its thing, Changing people year in and year out, with each year's quantity of Changes being double that of the year before? We know that being Changed is ''not'' an absolute protection against the 'furry virus' -- the setting rules themselves ''explicitly allow'' previously-Changed people to get hit with another dose of Change, after all -- so ''either'' (a) the 'furry virus' ''does'' have an explicitly-coded off-switch, or else (b) starting in 2020, an ever-increasing number of people are going to end up Changing ''two or more times in any given year.''

If the 'furry virus' ''has'' a built-in off-switch, that begs the question of what, exactly, its shutdown condition ''is.'' Does it stop spreading/infecting when there's no unchanged Human left, is it waiting for some specific event or combination of events before it quits, or what? Perhaps the guy who wrote the 'furry virus' did so with the specific intent of encouraging ROB to make [insert specific changes here] in ROB's virtual world, such that the results of those changes are the virus's 'off-switch'?

If, on the other hand, the 'furry virus' has ''no'' built-in brakes, things can get weird, fast. People have already floated the notion of Changes happening "out of season"; what if these 'unscheduled' Changes are merely a harbinger of things to come, in which people can be re-zapped at any time of year, an arbitrarily large number of times per year? It may be instructive, or at least amusing, to extrapolate the data given in "The Numbers", and divide each year's expected number of Changes by the expected population for that year: In 2020, there's 1.12 Changes per person (perhaps every human being Changes, regardless of their current state, and there's a 12% chance of one guy Changing ''twice?).'' Since we're basically talking about a doubling function, it only takes until 2024 for every ex-human to be an involuntary member of the Change Of The Month Club (because there's a touch over 17 Changes per person that year), and the Change Of The '''Day''' Club starts up in 2029 (during which year there's a bit less than 514 Changes per person per year). In 2034, the extrapolated number of Changes per person for that year is significantly over 15,000 (which works out to about 7/4 of a Change ''per hour,'' every hour, for every human being); by 2040, we hit 1.75 Changes per ''minute;'' 2046 is when every human being starts to hit 1 Change per ''second.''

To repeat what I said above: Things get weird, fast.

Obviously, the above figures are ridiculous, since they're derived from mindless extrapolation of an exponential curve. Perhaps the most sensible way to go is to presume that ROB manages to ''do'' something about the metatstasizing 'furry virus' no later than 2025 or so. In any case, one hopes said figures at least provide a bit of food for thought... [[User:Cubist|Cubist]] 05:03, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

== Change and the Media ==

It's probably a sign that I watch WAY too much TV, but it's a theme that's been in the back of my mind (man that back area's getting mighty crowded with ideas). As the Change progresses, even with the Veil in place, more and more effects of the Change will start showing up in other ways, and it will become more and more 'public' even if the Unchanged won't really know what is going on. I suspect TV shows especially will begin to show a lot of these.

This is just some of my rambling thoughts on what the TV Cable signals might be sending to the screens of the Changed near-Future.

Reality TV in all its forms will probably be the first to really start showing the effects of the Changed, since they tend to have the fastest turnaround time and the most contact with non-actors. Court shows (like I wrote in my short story case) will have more and more cases of Changed vs Norms and even weird Changed vs Changed cases. "He won't share the nail clippers!" "She gifted me the money for the vacation to Alaska in January")

Gameshows also will start having more Changed contestants, especially popular ones like Price is Right.

And then you have the Survivor types. Show's like "Top Model" and "Bachelor(ette)" and "Blind Date" (especially given the Change's habit of giving the Changed Eye-turning bodies) will probably have the most Changed on a show early on (whether intentionally or unintentionally).

Home Makeover shows may start seeing even weirder designs as designers/homeowners remake rooms to give room for antlers or bigger buttons for hoof fingers and such. (We thought Frank's designs on Trading Spaces were weird BEFORE he Changed... :P )

Amazing Race may have a Changed Team soon; a few Changed in the Big Brother House (probably intentionally put in there by a Changed Studio staffer), and the next Survivor or two would probably have some contestants.

Once the Field comes down, I fully expect CBS to roll out a "Furries vs Normals" Survivor while they can.

Now onto more tasteful TV. (arguably :P )

Cartoons? (what few new ones that are made) will likely start having more and more of a furry bend to them. Hallowe'en specials may turn 'human' toons into furry ones as experiments to transition shows.

Soaps? Expect Change stories fairly soon I dare say. I don't watch them myself, but from what I've heard of some storylines they've done in the past, the Change isn't all that strange. These writers will probably be chaffing at the restrictions of the Field the most.

Sitcoms will probably start getting Changed in-jokes fairly quickly as more Changed writers and actors come on staff. Some of the jokes may verge on Veil-breaking too, but viewers would discount as visual FX.

Procedurals/Drama's, business as normal but more Change-related stories. Maulings and gorings investigated on CSI's (along with strange fingerprints/bootprints, hair samples, etc...), Without a Trace investigating people who disappear after Change Day, maybe even a TG mystery. Numb3rs maybe touching on the Change rate (imagine Chris brought in as an advisor for an ep ? :) ). House or ER dealing with a Changed patient and/or Changed doctors/nurses.

And finally (for now) Sci Fi/Fantasy shows will probably find themselves in a very difficult position. On the one hand, they'd be ideal to start exploring the Change itself. On the other hand, as long as the Field is in effect, they can't really explore them since they'd have to turn normals into Furry's (or dress furry's in fursuits). Plus, a show's setting may not exactly be ideal for adjusting to the Change. "SG-1/Atlantis" may be able to adjust (turn it into an Ori curse or something), but Terminator would have a harder time. Heroes could probably pull it off, but BSG? Unlikely. (Imagine them finding 'Earth' but it's a Furry Earth... Hmmm...)

Anyways, that's just some of my rambling thoughts on the TV of the near future, for what its worth.

:There's a simple way to make furries show up in Television. Simply use the polarized lenses as featured in Open Secrets on the video camera units. The image of the furries would pass through the polarized lenses onto the film. The film would record the true image in the same way that people would see the true image. Boom, RDF circumvented. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:26, 28 January 2009 (EST)

:: True those would work. But everyone involved for those scenes would have to Know or questions would be raised. Depending on the scene and production. (Thouhg some could be handwaved, as long as the producer/editors Know. "Bob's gonna play the part of a man-rat for this scene. We'll CG-replace him in Editing afterward"

::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 12:33, 28 January 2009 (EST)

::: Well, at the very least, the cameraman is going to be in the know fast! Actually, I could see something like this being done once things go public. We could have a documentary on the early Changed (while you can still get human actors!), and you'd have some cameras with the filter on it and some without so you could show what the Changed sees and what the unsuspecting humans around him see. --[[User:98.236.12.68|98.236.12.68]] 05:14, 29 January 2009 (EST)

:::: That is happening to some extent, though not with the filters yet. Shiloh (and her new boyfriend newly Changed this year) are doing what they can to document the Change and how it affects lives as it happens (on the side from their main jobs), and I'm sure she's far from alone on this.

:::: Once more Documentary makers get ahold of this and it goes public, I'm sure there will be more too.

::::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:33, 29 January 2009 (EST)

== Furries in Space? ==

OK Time for even more thoughts from me. :) Endeavor's launch last night triggered this thought.

I'm not going to elaborate, but is anyone watching the ISS crew for change symptoms? Or the shuttle crew if they're up? A Change up there could be Veil breaking just because of the amount of attention and lack of privacy those people have. (not to mention the extreme circumstances they'd be under).

The Change itself could very well spell the end of Manned space flight for the next few decades in the end.

Not sure if it would spell the end of manned space flight but yeah even just an examination of the air filter would find stuff that couldn't have gotten up there any other way.--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 19:16, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

:I'm sure it'd be the end of manned space flight for quite some time simply for economic reasons if nothing else. This is going to be rather disruptive and there'll probably be a bit of a budget pinch. [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

==The Reality Distortion Field is Real ==

Sadly, not the one you have in mind: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/18/2117208 :) [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

== Bats? ==

Just a question about the species: I've noticed you put aside birds for now, but what about bats?--[[User:142.68.130.19|142.68.130.19]] 23:52, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:Bats will put a huge strain on the Veil. If/when they do show up, it might be coming down by then anyway. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:36, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Farming in Paradise ==

Just shooting an idea in here for later. [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080410153658.htm This is the technology] widely deployed it the Paradise setting. But put the clock back ten years (1997 discovery, widespread global deployment by 2008). Biochar/agrichar. With any luck, the Green Revolution will be replaced with the Black Gold Revolution quickly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== BioFuels ==

Jon, you're beginning to scare me a bit. :P

This was just on Slashdot this morning: [http://www.utexas.edu/news/2008/04/23/biofuel_microbe/ New Source for Biofuels Discovered by Researchers At The University of Texas at Austin]

Basically, some bacteria that can make cellulose which can be turned to fuel, and the cellulose can be harvested without harming the bacteria.
--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 06:10, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

:I read about this yesterday. They hope to increase production efficiency 17-fold because otherwise, you'd have to cover the ''entire'' Midwest with this. Unfortunately it won't happen fast enough to prevent the shortages I know are coming.

:I read about this stuff every day. I mean, ''every'' day. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:19, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Another bit of news: [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece "Scientists find bugs that eat waste and excrete petrol."] --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 11:12, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== The Chicago Ghost Killer ==

After having seen countless videos of Persona 3 on youtube, and having played the .hack//GU games, and having read about this setting repeatedly, this idea was born out of my skull. It doesn't really fit with the setting per-say, (people dealing with expected changes in their lives and the changing of culture as truth becomes harder and harder to keep hidden), but it's still interesting.

Imagine if once the number of furries hits the thousand mark or close to it (1997), a strange series of murders begin in Chiago and wander outwards. To normal police and investigators these people have -nothing- in common, just random innocent people. But the furries know that every single person killed was a furry! Now this is where things start to get weird.

When seen by furries, the killer is a lanky laid back twenty something raven haired young man whose expression almost always remains passive wearing semi-formal dark clothes with a revolver in one hand and spare bullets in the opposite pocket.

When the police just about anyone else whose effected by the perception filter see him, they see 'Average Joe' or 'Face You Can't Help But Forget' and never ever notice the weapon he's holding unless he hits them with it or shoots them or something just as drastic. It is also is picked up by metal detectors the same as any metal gun. In other words, his existence, is like the existence of furriness to normal humans, his existence effects them, but they can't notice him directly.

This guy always knows a furry when he sees one regardless of media or medium, or reads one, this include file records of people TGed by the virus. When he spots one or finds out about one, he calmly location that person, in order of him learning about them, and shoot that person in the head without fanfare then simply move on to the next one.

Physically his strength and speed are all perfectly average human, meaning a bear or tiger furry could easy tear him apart.

Strange thing is that if profiled, no records of him will turn up, anywhere!

Also, he might even begin to appear DIFFERENTLY to people who are under the effect of the perception filter. He can't appear as a furry, and can NEVER EVER appear as a precise person (he can't appear as someone's mother or brother). But he can ultimately change how people look at him, they see a five year old girl with a teddy bear opposed to a man with a revolver even if he STILL can't fit in a toy car for the life of him and that 'bear' might go off if someone else 'hugs' it, (which he'd avoid someone doing at all posts). He could also appear as a fire fighter or police officer if he gets clever enough. Though furries will -always- see through this disguise. Along with any human whose able to see furries without effort.

The Chicago Ghost Killer never attacks non-changed humans, and will never take a shot if there's a reasonable chance of shooting a non-changed person.

He travels by mundane methods, he always travels by the most practical and speedy method and always has the correct change or ticket (this is not an illusion). His taxi, train, or airplane never crash.

If detained for questioning, he might just walk straight out of the police station unless some of the cops are furries. If stripped of his weapon and ammo next time he shows up he'll have a new set perfectly identical to the last one down to the imperfections in the casing.

Now this is where things get ambiguous. I don't know if he's killed he just appears in Chicago the day after the change again each year, or weather two different people with abilities similar to his appear in his stead these armed with a crossbow and another one shot distance weapon.

Since deleting the entire universe is not an option, The Chicago Ghost Killer might be an emergency fail safe to try and cut off the infected flesh from the system.

His name comes from where he started killing (strangely the same place as the changes began) and the fact that to normal humans he IS like a ghost, there yet not there but decidedly felt.

I know this doesn't really fit with the setting at all, but I just had to share it with the only people who'd appreciate it.

Thank you.

- Alex Warlorn. 2008 06 15

:And his name is Agent Johnathan Walker Smith, is it? Seems like a Matrix Agent to me... (unsigned comment)
::Actually I don't think he'd -have- a name, or even know the true nature of the world, he'd just know what he -had- to do and how to do it and how he can do it.-- Alex Warlorn

== Octuplets born in California ==

Things that make you go Hmmmm....

8 babies at once
Planning to breast feed them all.
Names not being released (yet).

Could we have a changed couple hiding out there from the glare of the media spotlight? :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:25, 27 January 2009 (EST)

=='''Future RDF Failure'''==

I'm starting to work out ideas about how the RDF would fail. My current thinking is that it will work on a small scale first. Visually, there would be a "refraction", like seeing your own eyes through your glasses. Or your leg halfway in a pool. This is the "Refraction Effect". These are places where the RDF has been removed, like a section of glass, revealing the Real World underneath. It's gone. The visual effect makes it clear a border's been crossed. I'm not sure ''when'' this is going to happen. Probably sometime near the US Gov wants to go public. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 07:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

===Weirdness Censor?===

I've been thinking about an "RDF Lite" that could basically act as a Weirdness Censor instead of the full blown see-furries-as-humans version that exists right now. There'd still be social upheaval, but not the civilization-ending type that would most likely happen. I'm very likely going to do this in After Hours, but I want to do it right. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

==The "Posthuman" World ==

In order to differentiate this setting from WoC more, I'm going to keep a certain number of regular humans in the furry world that results when the virus runs its course. Same rules as other furry types as far as parent-child species. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 19:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

:No offense, but that feels like a cop-out to me. As someone else pointed out, a computer virus is NOT going to simply 'burn itself out' a computer virus continues like any program infinitely unless it's directly ordered to. Once it runs out of humans to transform, it'll start to transform furries into other species, and become even more chaotic as time progresses. I just feels cheap the virus suddenly just stops, and it doesn't make sense form a programming point of view either since it would open MANY MORE cans of worms anyway. -- Alex Warlorn June 15 2009

::Okay. How to address this? A lot of my ideas for this setting comes from Charles Stross's work, which can get pretty mind-bending at times. ''Accelerando, Glasshouse, Singularity Sky'', and ''Iron Sunrise'' all come to mind. One of my basic assumptions is that the Furry Virus is itself sentient/sapient, but it's not ''quite'' as smart as the transhuman intelligence running the Simulation Space that is our universe (down to the Planck Length).

::The RDF was a last-ditch effort to maintain the experiment as it was. We're all a bunch of microbes, as far as ROB is concerned. But It's not the type of Being to just chuck the whole experiment into the incinerator and start over. At this point ROB has scrapped the original experiment in favor of trying to prevent our little petri dish universe from going completely bad. So, 1) contain the Furry Virus, and 2) prevent it from doing any more damage beyond 2020 by creating a specific End State. The FV remains, but it becomes an uncommon chronic disease.

::Frankly, now that furries and the TGed have been Outed ROB may even stop the history editing. More obvious actions include: Refilling dead oilfields, creating social conditions so humans aren't really surprised at the Change. There are probably all kinds of countermeasures ROB has done that I haven't thought of in order to keep people from going ''crazy crazy'' and incinerating their own petri dish. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::I was thinking of a similar idea, but in a programming context as opposed to a biological one, and ''very'' limited. Think of every person as an element of an array, i.e. Human[]. An algorithm designed to change the values of every element, like the furry virus is doing, would most likely go from 0 to some constant POPULATION_HUMAN. In that case, ROB might be able to circumvent the effects for the virus for a select few by assigning people to special values: NULL, NaN, -1, MAX_INT, INFINITY, or other predefined numbers, even those that aren't considered "special" to humans. The purpose of this would be to preserve ''some'' unaltered "data" for purposes not important to us, and it can't be done for all humans because of the effort or memory required to "manually" fix so many values.

:::Conversely, perhaps ROB will let the virus run its course so It can then safely run a variation of the virus to turn everyone back into humans. That would be another interesting take: when the world's furry in 2020, how will everyone feel when they find out they'll all be human again by about 2055, depending on population, and perhaps if the same thing happens in cycles? ...

:::...Or if it turns out that life has been this way for a long, ''long'' time. Thinking back to what ROB has been able to do, this is easily within Its power. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 05:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::ROB figures it's best to let the virus run its course then neutralize it like I've described. Perhaps ROB's reworking the Experiment to account for the new changes.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Colons! Colons as far as the eye can see! Ahaha.

:::::One little problem I had with ''Accelerando'' (though I did indeed love it in all other respects) was how completely unfathomable the Higher Beings were. You never could figure out what their reasons were for anything…and in fact, in all their interactions with the remnants of pre-Singularity humanity, they mostly seemed to delight in "poking the anthill". Sending boatloads of recreations of historical and fictitious characters out to that space station just to mess with humanity's minds. And not only could you not ask them why, you wouldn't be able to understand their answer if you did. Hence, one of the things that you hope you learn in the end—the question of "why?"—is forever unanswered.

:::::It would be kind of nice to have some of the characters eventually be able to confront ROB and the virus and ask them what the deal was, but I'm not holding my breath any. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 06:22, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::::I'm very, ''very'' careful not to jump the shark. But at the very least ROB does have some empathy for us microbes. While ROB does do some "resimulation" for TGed folk, it absolutely ''will not'' alter memories because that would cause personality death.

::::::Paradise is more similar too ''[http://www.amazon.com/Darwinia-Novel-Different-Twentieth-Century/dp/0812566629 Darwinia]'' than ''Accelerando''. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Another possibility I just thought about: perhaps this isn't the act of a virus at all. Instead this is the fix to an ancient "Human Virus" that infected the universe, and it's just restoring the original experiment (or whatever). Or if you ''really'' want to throw people off: humanity ''is'' the virus itself, and this is how ROB is solving the problem. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 07:25, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

::Well, to be fair, this is a post-Singularity virus. Nobody ever said it was strictly one-function only. For all we know, it may have a behavioral change programmed into it. "Take Z action until condition A is met, then switch to taking Y action until condition B is met, etc." Or heck, the virus itself may be a sentient/sapient digital life form with free will, fully able to "change its mind" when it wants to. Certainly there is some intelligent agency at work behind the Reality Distortion Field that has already shown the ability to change its own behavior or react to changes in infected people's situations (changing TG furs' "ghosts"—and all extant records—from male to female when they get pregnant, for instance). No reason the virus can't be the same way. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 23:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

:How is that going to work? I'm not sure how humanity can propagate by the "same rules" as other furry types given that it's been established humans and furres are not able to interbreed. Perhaps there might be an inverse of the Sleeping Sickness (a Waking Sickness? :) which causes furries to randomly mutate back into human in addition to the other types of furry form? —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 22:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

::Two thoughts: 1) In 2021 there's a group of humans worldwide who don't Change. They're simply the one species among many. After this point they can breed with furres because the RDF is down anyway. Perhaps they can already do this in Bubbled areas in 2010. 2) Human forms can be a recessional trait that shows up on occasion, between two furres.

::Furry babies already look ''very'' human due to a type of neoteny. Even the herbivores like horses and deer have very stubby muzzles. It looks more like a mask when they're born. Within two years those muzzle stubs grow the "baby animal" proportions, then as normal. They're generally more thinly furred for those first two years also. I keep thinking of puppies. No matter what the breed, they all look ''extremely'' similar when newborn. Same will be true in this setting. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, TG and TF will continue. I'm thinking of something akin to Matthias' character, with random changes. It'll be considered a chronic disease. And the severe forms ''can'' kill you. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Possibly the first occurance of ROB ==

As I mentioned when I introduced him, ROB (Random Omnipotent Being) comes from some other message boards I regularly view/visit. Well someone seems to have found what may have been the first occurrence of ROB. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=53955] Pretty humble beginnings for him if you ask me. :) (His brother, COROB (Crossover Obsessed Random Omnipotent Being) similarly had humble beginnings a month or so later. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=55397] )

== The RDF and extra extremities. ==

Assume here that the RDF is functioning normally and hasn't broken down. Normal humans can't feel the extra extremities of the Changed, like tails and horns - they just feel empty air. But what would another Changed see if they were to look at a normal human attempting to touch a Changed's tail? Would they see the human seemingly passing their hand through the tail of the Changed? [[User:CNash|CNash]] 23:52, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

:I think you've got it wrong. Extra extremities can still be physically felt. The RDF is like a holographic cloak around the changed - it doesn't actually have an effect on their form. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 00:57, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:Shadow is basically correct. Their hand wouldn't pass through empty air. They would meet some weird resistance, but they'd forget about it in a short time. Other Changed would see them touch the tail they can't see. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:: I was going by a line in "Made Alone"; CM's diary entry: ''I say, `Oh yeah, here, grab my tail'. He humors me, but he cannot feel it. I feel him put his hand on it, but he just doesn't feel it.'' - I haven't yet read through all the stories and I'm going chronologically. [[User:CNash|CNash]] 11:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:::If there's one thing I've learned about running a shared setting is to ''not'' demand ironclad continuity. I always allow authors leeway for dramatic purposes, and I don't mind if events don't quite match up. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:19, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

::::Given that is the earliest described Change event, I just assumed that the Veil was stronger back then, and since lessened to the extent of allowing feeling of extremities. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 07:32, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

== Glitch ==

Assertion one: Universe of Paradise setting is mathmatically generated by advanced post-singularity computer. Assertion two: Pre-singularity computers have demonstrated randomized renumbering of internal programing due to outside factors. These renumberings are identified as "glitches," having no basis in programming like bugs and viruses. Assumption: Post singularity computer operates with similar if heavily advanced hardware as pre-singularity computer. Conclusion: Randomized renumberings of programming will occur independently of programming. That is to say, it is not inconceivable that somewhere, a coffee cup on the table is suddenly on the counter. Or that an ant becomes a different species of ant. Or that a gray-eyed man one day has blue eyes. Perhaps these small changes are common and constant. -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 05:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

== Species Expansion ==

We have already seen at least one Elephant man. Is the Furry Virus, as it expands, drawing from a larger gene base? And if so, when would the first nonmammalians arise? Personally, I'm expecting crocs in the near future. Perhaps even 2010... -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 22:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

:The setting is mammals only. Reptiles and birds have very different reproductive biologies. Birds wouldn't be able to fly and cold-blooded creatures can't support a human-like brain and its energy requirements. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== An observation ==

From what I've read, the 'computer simulation' theory is just that- a theory. There's no point blank evidence that this is what's happening within the storyline, and, while I obviously shouldn't just stroll in and rewrite things, but I'd ask the main participators in this storyline to keep this in mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- (note added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC))

:Jon is the creator of the setting and he has final say in these things... He has not ruled on this yet, but I think he will if it becomes a problem. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== If a person doesn't TF again next year... ==

Maybe I missed something. Is it right that if a person doesn't TF again the year after they first change, they stop changing for good? Thinking of the story's setting (computer simulation), if the change is caused by a virus, surely it could keep affcting people? If that doesn't make sense I'll expand, but surely someone knows what I'm talking about. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- signature added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] )

:First it's "bear", not "bare" - homophones are a big stumbling point for a large portion of people, so I try to help people where I can with them :)

: Second... Remember that the whole "post-singularity simulation infected by a virus" schtick is just one possible cause. Jon has said that it could be, but has not pinned it on that. If it really is a virus, then there is a possibility that you could change again 20 years down the line. However... It might be that the multi-change people are somehow an exception - like the virus leaves behind a flag saying "infected" (you'll find this with existing computer viruses, actually) and with multi-changers this flag is missing. Or it could be that the multi-changers are actually being created because of ROB trying to undo the damage done by the virus. And a third possibility is that there is no "virus" and the change is happening according to a plan setup by the people that programmed the simulation - and the multi-changers were randomly selected to be multi-changers.

:In other words... Even if you assume that the postulated "post-singularity simulation" is reality the change could be more than a virus and the limits on multiple changes could be somehow tied directly to the purposes that the simulation was created for... Anyway... I've gone on too long with this. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 19:03, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

::Ugh. I actually thought whilst typing, "that's not right, it should be bare..." blast. So much for trying to write a story if I can't do that kind of simple thing.

::Thanks for your help. I'm trying to make sure I understand the setting as best I can so I can make my story (hopefully a series, but maybe I'm being a bit ambitious) as best as possible. I'm trying to break the mould... Most characters in the Paradise setting seem to be similar. If my first attempt works, I might try one with a different character... Actually, I'd probably do it even if it didn't work :) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Just to be clear, it is a simulation running on a post-Singularity cloud of computronium. And it is a virus doing the dirty work. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:34, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:::: *GACK* - Last time I read the setting page that was still a "speculation" bit :( -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

== Human/Furry detail ==

More prattling, sorry. Bear with me (Heh. Got it right this time.).

The information on smaller details in the differences between humans and furs is irritatingly lax, and I hit a block while writing my own story stressing over an incredibly minor detail. My problem aside, I think that the lack of detail makes it awkward to write... Would two characters that changed into the same species be exactly the same anatomically? I'm not sure. A couple of stories have thrown me in that respect, mainly "A Kind of Paradise", and "Twisting the Veil". I feel like I'm having a bit of a whine actually, and should just get on with it, but right now, I feel like speaking my mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:The anatomical differences between furry species can vary, but not so much that they become incompatible with each other. This is why I didn't want to add birds/reptiles/fish/insects. They're just too different. If they're the same species, they're exactly the same. There is a variance in hair (Some have it, some don't) otherwise everyone is firmly anthro rather than, say, animal ears and tail and nothing else. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:37, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I understand why there are only mammals in the setting, personally I think it's a good choice. I wasn't really thinking about the degrees of how human/animalistic people are, but rather what traits they take on when they change. For example, I know that people have commented on changes in sounds and smells, but not sight, is sight affected? And, as for traits, I know that most species of rodents are incapable of vomiting, fox example. But would the humans be affected by this? Of course, I'm not asking for all the details, that would be ridiculous considering the number of possibilities. I just don't want to write something that doesn't follow the rules of the setting. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Actually... Things like that are, IMHO, why the 'Sleeping Sickness' bracelets have been issued. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Um, yes, those. Maybe I haven't been reading the right stories, but to the best of my knowledge, the bracelets are to let doctors know (provided they already know about the whole thing) what you changed into. Have I missed something? (I feel like I'm asking too many questions. Sorry.) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::::There is a mention in one of a changed that was a species to which aspirin is toxic being killed by a doctor prescribing aspirin... I just don't remember which story that was. The stories about Doctor Clay have most of the good information about how changed can suffer from problems/illnesses incumbent to their species. (IIRC there is a judge that starts suffering from a problem only seen in horses - and he's a horse...) -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::::The idea behind the "Sleeping Sickness" bracelets was pretty much a (bad) attempt by a small group at the CDC to get help to Changed. Hospitals were supposed to report such cases that presented in order for doctors in the know to be summoned. It was created essentally with the idea that it wasn't really a workable solution, but the best that could be come up with. The factoid that came up about toxic medications was based on a factoid I heard many years ago, that penicillian has a singular toxicity for rodents. As such, as drug testing is set up today, its unlikely it would ever be approved. The idea is that there is enough transformation that people might pick up certiain toxic reactions to things that they didn't realize. I'm not sure anyone has really gone into depth with this, but I'd think you could infer that some canines would have violent reactions to chocolate, for example. Like all things, there would be some variability, just like some dogs can seem to eat chocolate fine while others it might kill. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 23:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

== Extreame ROB ==

I had an odd thought last night about the implications of what ROB does with respect to rewriting documentation of peoples pasts. ROB has been known to change paperwork, pictures and even apparent histories of people. (Didn't someone in After Hours discover they were supposed to have dated people earlier as the opposite gender?) That got me to thinking about how far this might all go. Assuming that ROB doesn't actually start to mess with memories, will it start to alter older records? Pictures from earlier than the first Change, even for subjects that died before it all started? Paintings? And would they be consistent? Would every painting done of George Washington find the same form? And to take it a few steps further, what about statues? This could get messy... which isn't always a bad thing from a story perspective. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 15:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:I can see that happening more as a result of the furry virus, since that kind of extreme "history editing" feels more malevolent to me than something ROB would do. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 20:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Interesting though that would be, it's an important plot mechanic for there to still be remnants of the human world - Once the entire human race has transformed, they need to still be aware that this has happened - Rewriting history would remove this and it would be as if nothing happened... if you see what I mean? -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

::It would make sense for things to get messy if it were the virus causing it. Sloppy, half rewritten pasts, people not sure of what really happened and what didn't, more like a temporal infection than a careful rewriting. That kind of scare could lead the reader to be a bit more sympathetic about ROB trying to stop the virus's progression. It would also make a great opportunity to go all Serial Experiments Lain on a story and leave people wondering wtf -- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:10, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Furry Sizes ==

What size are furries? It's pretty clear that bears are big and mice are small, and it mostly makes sense to have the same thing (but not as extreme) for anthroid furries, but there are some other size differences I can't so easily imagine. Some guidelines might be helpful. Ferrets in particular, ferret males are often twice as big as ferret females, as is the case of many mustelids, but at the same time both of them are smaller than cats. If I make a female ferret larger than a rat, and a male ferret smaller than a cat, that's starting to leave not so much room to spare. If I had to finagle a scale I'd say

* mice - 1.2 meters (or less!)
* rats - 1.3 meters
* female ferrets, squirrels, minks, etc - 1.4 meters
* male ferrets, ringtails, mongooses - 1.6 meters
* female cats - 1.7 meters
* male cats, skunks, raccoons - 1.8 meters uh...
* big cats and wolves - 1.9-2.0
* big stuff like bears - all the way to 2.2.

But then again it might also be fun to have a 2 metres tall cavy. GEORGE LOVES YOU COME GIVE GEORGE A BIG HUG.

Maybe illustrating size differences between sexes is a bit too piccaunish. >.<
-- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:04, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

:I should personally think that irrelevant. While there's clearly going to be some destinction between heights and races, I think guidelines are unnesecary. People come in all shapes and sizes, this individuallity should be maintained. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

== Human Survival ==

Since the US government, and governments of the world, would have obviously known about the furry changes for many years as government officials became Changed, they logically would have set up Projects (like the Manhattan Project) to study the reasons and try and find a solution. It is obvious to them that the end of humanity will come and this should have all contries of the world enganged in studying the scientific causes of the RDF and ways to affect it. Many of the scientists themselves who get changed would surely want to study the effect. Any physics professor changed would jump at the chance to study it and get the next Nobel prize for figuring it out. It does defy natural laws, therefore the new laws it does follow can be studied. If there is some master computer responsible for the universe, such as in Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, then this it might be possible for a "super computer" build by the UN or whoever to communicate with the ROB virus program or even the Master computer itself, and change it, such as the computer "Obie" in the Well World books. Personally, I favor a different approach. In 1987 a super computer someplace near Chicago DID develop self awareness, predicted that mankind was going to overpopulate and destroy the planet, and it decided to "FIX" things by connecting with the main universal computer at the center of the universe on a night when the least number of galaxies are in the way, which happens to be Aug 17. The governments at some point would find out that the birth rate is on a serious decline even though it is possible for furries to have babies, it is not as common as humans due to all the different genetics and species involved. Mating a horse furry with a rabbit furry is much less likly to produce offspring, for example, that mating a horse furry with another horse furry, so regardless of who was married to who when they are human, statistically the couple won't be able to have children after both change, unless they are the same. Some story about finding the ROB computer near Chicago before 2020 should be a possibility and reasoning with it might be a good solution.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:37, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:The thing is, there is no ROB computer in our world, if I'm understanding what you're saying here. It isn't like Obie or the Well World where it's something inside the Universe itself that's causing the Change. This setting--basically our world--exists as a Planck-level simulation space inside a post-Singularity posthuman computer. There are two viruses (also posthuman, slightly more advanced) responsible for the Change: A relatively controllable TG virus, and the much newer "furry virus" that ROB can't contain with "history editing".
Keep in mind that governments didn't really know this was even happening until the early 2000s.
Otherwise, the RDF/Change as a source of study for physicists is a good angle.
-- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:57, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::I just hate to plug but if you want an example of how goverments might screw up the change read my story [[User:Fibio|Cascade Failure]]
-- [[User:Fibio|Fibio]] 20:42, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::Of course, in a way it's kind of pointless even to know about it, since I can't really foresee any way that it could ever become a plot point within the story itself. I can't really see humanity figuring out how to "hack" its way out.
It doesn't really make that much of a difference, from an in-universe standpoint, to assume that it's all being done by "magic". (Any sufficiently advanced technology…) —- [[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 21:23, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Pretty much [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityWarper] all around. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thanks folks for all the replies to my post! People to talk to! OK, first JonBuck, I am not really sure I understand all the Plank-level simulation space inside a post-singularity posthuman supercomputer stuff (I did try to look up the story Accelerando but I just found a book cover) but I interpret this to mean: Plank-Level = really really small; simulation space = not real or temporary space in computer memory; post-singularity = after a black hole evaporates in about a few trillion years; post human = mankind extinct; supercomputer = something like the Cosmic AC in [http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html] ?

However, my ignorance aside, regardless of what the supercomputer is, or what we are, it would in effect be God. Now ROB could represent the devil, or if God has gone crazy, the savior. ROB either was created by the supercomputer "GOD" on purpose or by accident, it was created by a simulation universe, either our own, a past one, or another running concurrently, to infect God, or it was created by God's creators as some part of the God computer for some purpose and function, and if that is the case then either it is carrying out its intended program or it has malfunctioned. I think that is a complete list of all possible options, so if I have missed one then please let me know.

You stated, "It comes from outside the post-Singularity brain, and is slightly more advanced than "ours". What's happening is this bit of malicious code (sentient, no less, but on a level far beyond our ability to comprehend it) is messing up the simulated world we reside in. Why? I dunno. One of those inscrutable things." This sentient "virus" needs to have come from one of the posibilities above, and I suppose it is up to you to decide which, but since "you dunno", then I will try to help.

I guess the first question is "Why did God create the universe?" which translated means "Why is the supercomputer running the simulation?" Is the goal good or evil? Perhaps the supercomputer was programed to do so for an evil purpose by its creators, and ROB is sort of like its concience it has developed and wants to mess up the experiment before it can produce evil results. I would favor ROB being good, instead of evil, perhaps trying to produce a different result that will end up doing good than if the simulation ran to completion on its present course. However, that being said, if ROB is a computer virus, and based on logic and programable, and is expending energy to maintain the RDF, scientists studying that might find a way to..either communicate with it, grab its attention, or annoy it. I believe that enabeling some communication with it, even though we won't understand it completly, would produce some interesting stories.

Fibeo, I had previously read your story and just re-read it. By the way it is fine to plug :) When I read it the first time I thought that it really did not fit in with the rest of the stories since it involved time travel. In the context of a simulation, that would mean more than one running at one time, all on different timelines, and being able to hop between them. Maybe ROB is trans-simulation and could have helped this, but I really don't see how anyone in a simulation could get the supercomputer running it to re-set it to a prior time point and insert someone from a future point. It was an interesting story however and I did enjoy reading it.

Robotech, "magic" is a nice simple explanation to explain the unexplainable, but mankind strives for answers, it seeks to understand, and predict and ultimately control those things it can not immediately explain. Faced with an unexplainable force that is threatening mankind itself with extintion, mankind will use all resourses at its disposal, spare no espence, bring the greatest scientific minds, changed and unchanged to work on studying and solving the problem. It may be futile, we may never be able to win against the Gods, but it is the nature of mankind to TRY! You mentioned it is unlikly manking could "hack" its way out. That would be one possibility, since mathematics would likly be the same for both us and the supercomputer and ROB which are both based on mathmatics and logic. however, there are possibities for stories regarding that attempt..and could be very interesting. If I was a writer, I might even try writing one, but who knows...I might anyways.

Back to JonBuck. The link was to an article about people thinking something and it becoming real. Much too powerful, sort of like...writers!
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:Okay. I'm going to clarify some concepts here.
:The Singularity I'm referring to is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity Technological_singularity] . Nothing to do with gravity. A [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman further entry on posthumanism] , and its close relation, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanist Transhumanist]. By Planck-level I mean, basically, the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units smallest length in the universe] . Everything down to those levels is "simulated".
:Moving on, the kind of questions you bring up I actually don't want to deal with. The reason I'm using the ROB acronym in the first place is to avoid overtly religious connotations. I realize that they're very important, but it's otherwise such a contentious issue in the real world. I really don't want to see any "communicating with ROB" stories.
:Post-Singularity intelligences are by nature inscrutable (I've seen Stross refer to them as "Weakly Godlike Entities" in his books). At this point ROB has switched to a "salvage mode" by making direct changes to the "simulation" in the form of alleviating energy crises (a huge concern of mine at the time I wrote most of my stories in this setting) and climate change.
:''Accelerando'' is actually [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerando_%28book%29 available for free].
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:27, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks for the reply Jonbuck, the links were very helpful and I have a clearer idea what you are talking about now. It is going to take me a while to read all the stories.
::I used religious words to describe ideas simply that are familiar but did not mean in any way to be controversial.
::I will try over the next few weeks to put together a short story within your constraints, and if it exceeds your limits we can just change it. I plan to make one assumption, and that is that a simulation is defined by rules set for it that need to be obeyed for it to continue running. ROB changing the speed of light in the simulation for example would be such a fundamental change in everything that it would break the entire simulation, i.e. crash the program. ROB can only work within the rules set for the simulation, agreed?
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:12, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :) At this point the simulation is being salvaged to prevent social chaos, death, and extinction of the people inside it.
:::There's a novel out that has some very similar ideas and influenced a lot of how I set up this setting: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_%28novel%29 ''Darwinia'' by Robert Wilson] .
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:22, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply JonBuck, I can work with that, and will post something in a few weeks for your feedback.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

== About ('''2004''') '''''Victory Starts Here''''' ==

OK, JonBuck, I lied and posted the story in just 2 days. I could not stop thinking about it. I got as far as I could. Could you please read it and then tell me the results of each of the experiments before I can continue in the next one? Thanks!
[[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:17, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

:After the "server crash" of 2011; the original story [[User:Enphilistor|Victory Starts Here]] (by [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] ) is now avalaible (in a very crude, text only format) in the Talk Page of it´s creator: [[User_talk:Enphilistor| Victory Starts Here]]
: -- [[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think I will just have to decide for myself how the experiments turn out and just hope you approve. One of my goals in the stories I plan to write is to explain "scientifically" all the effects you have going on here are consistent with all universal laws. If you are running a program, you can't change the code of the program while it is running. You can change the code but only by stoping the program from running and recompiling it. So anything ROB is doing has to be done inside the simulation following the rules of the simulation (under the premise of the stories I plan to write). It is really not going to be easy for the scientists(i.e. me) to explain the changes to the past records, or why they start off only being change a few years back, then all the way back to the day someone was born, and undoing history such as marriages. And remember, I can't have ROB using "magic", ROB is in the simulation and has to be constrained to its rules. Because of this constraint, ROB needs a "body" someplace and a supply of "energy" from somewhere, to direct and power all these changes. I hope you enjoy my next story, that should be entiteld something like "Victory Continues", where Paul has to cope with being a female pig, and the scientists recieve some confusing results on the origin of the signals they record.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 22:27, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

:Not really. If ROB is outside of the simulation, there's nothing to stop it from pausing the simulation and reworking the fabric of it as necessary. It's like pausing the Sims and placing new walls or whatever. As far as the Sim-people are concerned, those walls might as well as have always been there, even if we (the players) know better. ROB is not inside the simulation, ROB is the player(s) outside the simulation. In no sense does ROB need to obey any rules within the simulation, nor does it need act within the laws of the simulation to change the simulation. By definition anything ROB does is going to be 'magic' because turning people into furries, or editing history, isn't something that's allowed within physical laws. Most of the transformations directly violate the law of the conservation of mass and energy, for example.
:I don't mean to rain on your parade, and I'm clearly not Mr Buck (who might disagree with my explanation), but it seems like you're not quite getting the setting, as I understand it. Hope that helps.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 07:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

::Got it in one, Honeymane. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:30, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

JonBuck said, Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :)

In addition, since ROB hates paradoxes, and will go to such extremes as making sure each child will have both a biological father and a mother and never 2 fathers or 2 mothers, following the rule of conservation in energy and mass is necessary to avoid such paradoxes on an even more fundamental level and in any case easily achieved. If you read my story, that exact experiment has been set up to measure this. Since it is so easy to maintain mass and energy balance, which you will see in the next story, there is no reason to violate this universal law. Imagine the effect on the simulation if you try to break this rule either while it is running or "pausing" it. A calculation is in the process of being made on an object between it and every other object in the universe. In the middle of the calculation a zero is entered (E = mC^2, so if you are going to, C is either zero, which crashes the program and is not what JonBuck said, or as m goes to zero, then c goes to infinity which also changes the velocity of light constant which JobBuck said would not happen). Some calculations have already been performed and other calculations in progress have end up with a divisor of zero. You crash the program when you restart it, as the zero divisor propagates in all the calculations throughout the universe.

In any case, mankind will try and study these effects, and my stories will be mostly concerned with these attempts. However, when I say all laws have to be obeyed, that does not mean all laws that humans know about, it can include new ones. It may be that the results of the experiments will lead them to conclude that something is breaking the laws of the universe because they don't understand them all, but ROB will know what it is doing. I imagine it like this. The main computer can't use its antiviral programming to stop ROB as long as ROB is hiding in the simulation and following the rules in the simulation, but if ROB breaks the rules, and crashes it, he becomes exposed with no place to hide and gets zaped. You will see that in the next story, that ROB is still just as powerful to the same "magic" as it can is now, and still be consistent with all stories that have happened, and the setting JonBuck has set up. JonBuck has not really explained the interaction between the main computer and the virus or any protections or why they are not working. In any case, it doesn't matter what i think, since the stories I plan don't mention this at all, they will be consistent with either ROB being inside or outside the simulation, only what the beings in the simulation measure is in the stories. Just trust me, the story will be interesting and fun, and if JonBuck says no to some result after he reads it, I will change it. Fair?
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 01:54, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I haven't had time to read your story yet. Frankly, reading your comments here I'm getting a little antsy over what exactly the impact it would have on the overall setting. I think you're over-analyzing the setting, frankly. You're asking questions about it that I really can't answer.
:Also, use colons in front of your paragraphs to make them indent and create a "nested" topic. And put a blank line between paragraphs. Thanks.
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:21, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

::For JonBuck I had intentionally not been using indents so that my comments would be totally left justified and everyone the replies for everyone else indented, make it easier in my view to keep things organized. But if you prefer indents, I am easy.
::I had assumed that you had already read the story. It would be good for me to get some feedback on that since none of the things we discuss here are really in it, but may impact it.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think you're confusing the 'players' here. First, there's the computer that all the "real" characters (ie the characters in the story) exist in. ROB 1 is likely someone running the computer, perhaps for anthropological reason, perhaps because they're bored. ROB 2 is unrelated to ROB 1, but for one reason or another, has managed to add a virus program to ROB 1's simulation, causing problems. There are at least 2 viruses that JonBuck has discussed; one that changes gender, and one that changes people into furries, we could, however, imagine that there may have been other viruses in the past, that eventually ROB 1 removed. For example, Atlantis might have been real, and so might have the Greek/etc gods. Atlantians were gifted technology beyond what they should have, and ROB 1 deleted the island to save the program, ROB might have also deleted the Gods, for whatever reason, etc. I'm just speculating here. Now, either ROB can't remove the virus like it did the other problems, or it realized that altering reality was screwing with the program's purpose (such as anthropological study) So rather than delete the TG or TF viruses, ROB 1 created a program to try and mitigate the virus's effects. This program is what causes the history editing (etc).
:Both these viruses exist within the programing of the Computer, but not on a level that would appear to anyone in the program. It's important to remember that time doesn't necessarily pass like it does within the computer; the virus could get it's work done in a nanosecond. Everything else, the sickness, the slow change, all these might be part of the mitigation program's efforts to prevent anyone from changing in public, and to change so suddenly they lose their minds, nor without warning. But there's no reason to think that this computer virus is operating through something like an actual virus, or that the changes are visible on a cell level before the change occurs, even in those showing the signs of the change.
:But again, this is just me talking, not Buck. But I do strongly suggest you hold off writing too much more until Jon has a chance to review your story, or else you might very well find yourself writing something based on ideas that JonBuck doesn't like/want in his setting.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: For Honeymane It is really difficult to hit a moving target. I have not seen in any of the stories and discussions or JonBuck's guidlines about prior activity of ROB. As for ROB1, ROB2, ....ROBN, only one master computer has been mentioned and only one ROB virus. In my understanding, the main comupter has created a SIMULATION. The main computer is infected with a much smaller and more limited "few lines of code" virus, that the beings on one planet in the SIMULATION call the random omnipotent being, but this being is only omnipotent comparted to us, not compared to the main computer. I do not see ROB having the same power to shut down the simulation, pause it, change the rules in it or perform any of the jobs the main computer does.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I see ROB as much more limited. It needs to avoid detection of the antiviral programs, it can't attract their attention, it needs to work by stealth, it is a virus after all, it can't do things that say, "here I am!". And this all follows from things JonBuck has indicated. If he wants to say ROB = main computer in all powers, then well, fine, but he has not done so. He has not defined the motives of ROB or the main computer. when asked, he has said, " I dunno". Given that void, since I need to write in that setting, I find myself creating possible motives for them in my mind.
:It makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, but it helps me limiting ROB to viral powers and behaviors, not mainfraim abilities. A virus has 2 main goals, to keep itself alive and to reproduce itself. ROB may or may not have the second goal, but it will have the first. While doing this in any enviornment, it may cause side effects. Imagine ROB as a biological virus, and a living cell as the simulation that is growing inside a body that is the mainframe. At one time ROB was outside the cell, in the body (mainframe) where lots of antibodies (antiviral programs) were hunting for it. By entering the cell, it is now hidden from the body's defenses. However, if the cell gets sick or dies(ROB crashes the cell simulation) before ROB has either left the cell or reached a state of reproduction where that is desireable, then the body will just devower the cell and grow a new one. So in my scenario, perhaps ROB realized that the purpose of the simulation was about to be achieved, and since ROB is not ready to reproduce, it is messing with the simulation, hyjacking it as a virus hyjacks the DNA of a Cell, to keep the simulation alive longer than it would otherwise, so that it won't reach the conditions for termination, until it can make other copies of itself to infect other simulations. Who knows, maybe with enough copies of itself it can take over the mainfraim. Alternatively, its work at transforming mankind may be the way it is going about reproducing. Alternatively, ROB might have realized the simulation was about to produce a failed reslut which would have terminated the simulation and it is acting to keep itself alive by preventing failure conditions.
:In any case it makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, JonBuck had declined to actually be clear on this, and it really does not matter. The beings in the simulations don't know this, and it is difficult to think of any way they could ever find out. Well actually I could, because I am like that. One way would be if ROB tells them, and since Jonbuck said no comunication with ROB, that won't happen. Another if the mainfram sends a COR (Correcting Omnipotent Being) into the simulation (...and God sent his only begotten son...that type of idea) and told people.
:The second story is half done, and I plan to continue writing it since I have it all layed out in my mind. Hopefully Jonbuck will read the first story and give some feedback before I finish, but I believe he will approve of both stories in any case. And if not, I will change them.
: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: *puts on peacemaker and teacher hats*
:: From what I can tell you're looking for an explicit statement of something that has been implicit in the setting design since the start...
:: Where the Solar System once sat is now a cloud of what you could call "Computronium". Inside this computer are many, many simulations. Whether these simulations are the creation of a separate physical being or the uploaded minds of people is a moot point - we'll never see the "real world". (btw, ROB could actually be an AI that was once a person...)
:: The stories all take place inside one of these simulations that has picked up a couple of viruses somewhere. One of them has been around since at least the late 70's (IIRC, this is mentioned in one of Jon's stories) and the other didn't appear until 1987. The one that showed up in 1987 - the "furry virus" - is newer and initially ROB had tried to contain it using the "Perception Filter". When it somewhat "merged" with the TG virus the simulation got a lot more unstable and ROB had to start including things in its "containment" to help combat that instability. That is the "history revision" stuff. It also is the cause of the changes to married couples with children - because it was seeing potential causes of instability (no more mother/father) and fixing it as it could.
:: There is no "ROB" actually in the simulation - think about the game "The SIMS"... In that game you are the ROB - the creator and maintainer of the simulation. And you can "Pause" the simulation, make changes and restart it. In this case at least the entirety of the solar system is part of the simulation and every time ROB has to make a change it "pauses" the simulation, makes the changes and then hits the "normal speed" button. Now... there might be some people in the world that are actually from outside the sim, but they'd never make themselves known - and they could, probably, act like the ROB and remove any evidence of themselves (outside of memories) from the sim.
:: -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 04:21, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

::: I think a lot of the problems here is a misunderstanding of the source material I'm drawing inspiration for this setting from. Honeymane and ShadowWolf have both described things well. (Though I'm going to bump the TG virus back a few more centuries). A few points.
:::: * ROB exists outside the simulation. Other ROBs are not important. The Virus is not a ROB. However, ROB isn't really a physical being either, as SW describes.
:::: * The Virus originates outside the simulation. Who and what originally made it is a moot point.
:::: * The intent of said "virus" (the term only fits loosely) is to throw a monkeywrench into ROB's simulation of our universe. The reason why it hasn't been contained is that it was created by a slightly more advanced post-Singularity Mind than ROB. Since ROB can't contain it, ROB can only mitigate.
:::: * Essentially, the two virii are intended to cause social chaos via random transformations. It doesn't exist to propagate itself to other simulations. In the first case, a "quarantine" of sorts was created via modifying the present records of those TGed to reflect their new gender. If it was true history editing neither the person transformed nor the people who knew them would remember what they'd been. What ROB is changing are just the present physical objects.
:::Honestly, go read Part 2 of Accelerando. It was originally started as short stories, so you can pick it up there. That's where a lot of the concepts for Paradise started.
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 05:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, it seems terminology is messing me up. I was under the apparently mistaken belief that ROB was the virus, and the Mainfraim running the simulation(s). I believed this because the virus was random and chainging someone to a furry is sort of mildy omnipotent. Yes, I fully agree that if ROB = Mainfraim(or AI who might have once been human) then ROB must definatly outside the simulation. My comments were consering only the virus(es) that are causing the transgender/furry transformations.
Let me call the form that can do either one or the other or both, the Random Omnipotent Virus, ROV for short so there will be no misunderstandings. I can see ROB stoping the simulation and making corections, eliminating divisions by zero and all that. However, ROV should not have those abilities, being just a lowly virus, compared to ROB. The stories I wish to write constrain ROV to using the same old laws that existed in 1987, and prior to that if there was the TG virus. The universe we live in now was supposed to be identical to that one until 1987, I would like that ROV should be handicaped a little by the rules ROB created for the simulation. A simulation is to test SOMETHING, and if you start changing the rules (ie laws of nature) your results are just not going to simulate the conditions you wanted to in the real world, where you don't have the power to change the laws of nature.
The experiments the humans are setting up in my first story will indicate only the effects being caused by ROV. If ROV is outside or inside the simulation does not really matter, but if ROV can behave just like ROB, then that study is just not going to produce anything interesting either scientifically, or plot wise. Such violations of the laws of nature might just scream at them "There really must be a god involved." and we never want them to know or suspect ROB or the true nature of ROV. To have a scientific study, I would like ROV to follow the laws of the universe, for any of the reasons described here and in prior posts. I will work out some reasons that make sense to the humans for all things happening regarding the transformations, to keep them studying and not just throw up their hands in frustration, if that is ok.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]]

== Count of Changed in 1997 ==

Hello! I'm new here, but I really like this setting and read probably most of the stories. I even made my own table in Excel to draw the changing numbers as a graphic (Also for my hometown to get a grip on the numbers). And there I noticed something:

Maybe I just missed a story or paragraph where it is explained, but shouldn't there be 1024 Changed in 1997 instead of 1028? Where do the additional 4 Furries come from? I know this is just minor, but the error is kept through the following years till the end and all the numbers are wrong (It doesn't however change the fact that 2020 is the last year).

It's not so important, but it's been bugging me since I noticed it. -- [[User:TigeR|TigeR]] 15:53, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:Check out the [[Paradise (Setting)]] page. It has all the numbers. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

:: Jon, you do have a +4 in 1997 over a strict doubling. This is what he was pointing out and asking questions about. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: And fixed! -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:37, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: This error went a heck of a lot deeper and its possible that the skew-factor introduced in 1997 effected the percentages as time went into the future - however... I fixed this by hand and then verified the figures against a program that output every power of two from zero to the 33rd. As it stands this table now has correct figures for the furry population and one can only assume that the historical figures for population are correct and the projection fits the curve correctly. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:55, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Paradise:The Soundtrack ==

Not sure about anyone else, but I find music to be a major inspiration.. Well of course it

is... the song "Strangers by Yoko Kanno" got this series off the ground did it not?

So I decided to put together a soundtrack, it's not available for download because I own

none of these songs... But if you happen to have them, you can arrange them in your iPod

Playlist, if you want.. I mean I'm not forcing ya, it's just a possibility.

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0b58V573l8 '''Yoko Kanno''' - Strangers -_Wolf's Rain - Strangers by Sori Smile-_ ] <- { The begining of ALL of this... }

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IroHea5FOj8 '''Bliss 66''' - Not Quite Paradise ] <- {''This song pretty much hits the entire series on the head... (It's from the ending of [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb2aMjprmdo Titan A.E.], damn good movie, do see it sometime)''}

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqds0B_meys '''Three Days Grace''' - Animal I Have Become]

: '''Iris''' - Goo Goo Dolls

: '''Mighty Bosstones''' - Impression That I Get

: '''Lee Brotherton''' - Dream Of An Asbolution

: '''Cash Cash''' - Speak With Your Heart

: '''Eminem''' - Beautiful

: '''Shania Twain''' - Man I Feel Like A Woman

: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE9zpOyNDoA '''Chip Tha Ripper''' - SLAB Freestyle -_What Are You Inside? - Furries In A Blender_- ] <- { ''Joke YouTube Entry'' }

: '''Tears For Fears''' - Everybody Wants To Rule The World

: '''Foo Fighters''' - The Pretender

and finally:

: '''John Mayer''' - Waiting On The World To Change

I think I forgot some, but yeah, definitely these. - [[User:Hawl|Hawl]] (1/10/11, 1:55 PM)

: The new ''metadata format'' for the songlist is: %'''Artist'''% - %Songtitle% -_%YTtitle%-_ <- {%''comment''%}

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8IujL8_sMI '''Stanfour''' - For All Lovers] <- { ''My Favorite ; "...For all the Changeds, and Believers..."'' }

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4w3lPYoBX8 '''Stanfour''' - Everything Has Changed]

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjlM_RnsVE '''Skillet''' - Monster]

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-makfpBrSQ '''Three Days Grace''' - Never too late]

: -- [[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:50, 03 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Paradise (Setting)

2011-01-31T13:55:40Z

Argamis: Masive <data restore> from hard drive file: "Talk_Paradise_Setting (Google Cache 25 NOV 2010).pdf"

It's an interesting setting, what I've read so far, and I've got an idea or two percolating that may or may not come to fruition. A seed is trying to sprout for an idea starting in '05 and going forward.

One little detail though, (and it doesn't really apply to me but may for others), removing hippo's, rhino's and elephants from the pool seems to be a bit speciest, considering moose are allowed. In looking at the Wiki, it seems that hippos (1.5meters) and rhinos (2.0 meters) are actually generally smaller or the same size as the largest moose (2.1 metres) species. Elephants seem to average about a meter or two larger than the moose.

Perhaps a better restriction would be to allow any land mammal (and any sea mammal that is between the sizes of the minimum land mammal size and the maximum land mammal size), but set minimum and maximum furre sizes; something like a min of 1.2 metres or 4ft to a max of 2.0 metres or 7ft.

Anyways, I'll try and keep an eye on things and see if I can culture this idea I've got further. - 19:50, 10 January 2008 [[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]

== Theory on how the Change 'spreads' ==

Been thinking about how it might spread, such that we have a higher proportion of Changed in NA, but not leaving the rest of the world out, and I think I know how.

The 'computer virus' that Changes people, uses the RDF to spread itself. Our 'program's' own protection method is also spreading the damages.

Basically, I am guessing that if the RDF needs to kick in on you, then you are passively 'infected'.

Then, when August 17th comes around, the Virus triggers itself, but it for whatever reason can only copy itself for every previously Changed person. (The Doubling effect), and it can only affect people that have been passively infected, ie people who have had the RDF kick in on them.

The goal of the virus is to spread as far as it can, so it takes the number of new Changed it can, and spreads it more or less evenly across the available (RDF-affected) population.

So the first Changed is in Chicago (I think). Through the year until the next Change, she will encounter thousands of people, even in passing, which triggers the RDF on them and passively infects them.

Come August, 1988, the next Changed will be picked randomly from those thousands of people, and now we'll have 2 people spreading the RDF virus. 1989, a big chunk of Chicago has probably had the RDF trigger at least once, not to mention some tourists and other visitors to the city.

In 89, we get 2 more Changed, and one of them could possibly be in a different random city, just because he'd been to Chicago in the past 2 years and unknowingly seen a Changed, and a new nest of RDF-field affected people starts up.

European and Asian and Oceanic outbreaks could happen in years to come as the number of tourists and business people from those reasons travel into North America and begin to be fielded and infected themselves.

The 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City probably 'infected' most of the people who were around and watching, meaning that by then (if not before) pretty much anyone has a chance to be Changed.

It also means that truly isolated areas of the world (South Pacific islands, isolated Amazonian tribes, etc) could potentially be unchanged after the 2020 deadline; but any encounter at all with a Changed would likely Change them immediately and spread like wildfire through the village)

And while the RDF may 'fail' at some point, it'll probably still be around in a less effective form, trying to maintain some stability and spreading the Change. --[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]
:I'll give that some thought. It's somewhat similar to something I already had in mind. Perhaps those who have the RDF fail completely will be much more likely to change the next year, or they might even change out-of-phase. In any case, once they figure out that it's like a communicable disease, and everyone is already 'infected', the remaining humans will go nuts. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 12:35, 27 January 2008 (EST)

== Change and disabilities? ==

I keep forgetting to bring this up on IRC, but how do people (as in writers and other interested people in this setting) think disabilities would be affected by the change? Both Mental and Physical?

Would a paraplegic who lost his legs in an accident regrow them if he changed? Would he regain the use of them if they weren't lost but just disabled? (back injury)? What about false teeth, deafness, blindness, etc?

What if the cause was not from a physical accident, but was viral or bacterial in nature? Some disease struck them blind? Would they stay blind?

And what if the disabilities were genetic? Would those genetic flaws still show in the new form?

Finally, what about mental disabilities? Could the Change 'cure' Alzheimer's? Would it affect someone who is literally a brain dead vegetable on life support?

If it does have curative properties, I suspect we'll start seeing more and more miracle cures (assuming they can survive the flu) in the years to come. Which may imply that there'll be a push in the early to mid 2010's to just keep someone alive as long as possible in the home they Change and are cured/fixed.

Thoughts?

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 11:00, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:I think there are good arguments to be made for some healing properties of the Change, but I wouldn't make it go all out. A person missing a limb should still be missing a limb after the change (I have in mind a scene with a one-armed pianist who goes monkey and starts playing with his feet).

:When it comes to things like Alzheimer's, that is a much more difficult choice. I don't see mental retardation being suddenly healed by the Change, as that is a birth defect (and such things happen in animals too). But progressive diseases may backtrack, even if the conditions begin to return over time. That could make an even more painful story, somebody suffering from Alzheimer's, who Changes and now recognizes all his family again. But after a year or so everything starts to slip away again...

:Anyway, the whole keeping folks alive and hoping for a Change could make a good dynamic too. I just think there's a lot fo possibilities to consider before we make a decision on this. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:24, 4 February 2008 (EST)
::I'm inclined to do as Matthias suggests. It's more or less what I had in mind. However, one of the things that the Change does is it puts everyone in very good health. Even being a 300 pound female bear, CM is in very good shape. It will cure some ailments, and put chronic diseases into remission. Those developments will confuse the medical community enough without regrowing limbs or curing Down's Syndrome. But if you've read the latest Tall Tales, ROB is being forced to act more openly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 15:40, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:What happens to medical devices like heart pacemakers or hip replacements that were implanted in people before they changed? --[[User:JeniSkunk|Jenifur Charne]] 20:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::That's basically an open-ended question. I'm going to leave the answer to that one unsaid because I think it'd be a good Plot Point in a story. A furry episode of ''House'' maybe? --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::Late into the discussion, but better late than never. : ) Anyway, what about things like fillings and caps on teeth? Going to a dentist would be interesting. Going another step, outside medical devices wouldn't fit anymore and would bring up some unique delimas. What about people with prosthetics? If someone turns into a bear, I'm sure their leg isn't going to fit anymore, yet Unknown will wonder why they make such a claim all of a sudden. Lots of places to go with these stories. [[User:Tinbender|Tinbender]] 21:24, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Hey, not really sure on any of the points raised, have to give it some thought. One thing to consider though is can anthro's act as a bridge to humans for viruses that currently only affect animals?--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 23:35, 10 February 2008 (EST)

== A mortal analysis of Paradise ==

Lets me see if I get some of the details right.

There is a post-singularity Uber-computer, that when projected into 3-space, has the same consistency as humanity's combined thumbnail and happens to be running a simulation of the events leading up to its own creation. Secondly, it gets infected by a super-bug/virus that makes borg nano-probes look overly large and cumbersome. Said post-singularity, sentient, ROB-type entity/ virus changes some lines of code (if such things can be referred to as such) in reference to the people in the simulation, in and around the vicinity of Chicago (maybe the super-bug's designers had way-distant ancestors from there, or whose ancestors had a grudge against the place). The Uber-comp, in a flash of inspiration counters with the 'firewall-from-not-heck', or RDF as we understand it. The ROB is still successful with its dastardly and despicable plan to make the simulated history end differently.

That I get as far as it can be understood by a three-dimensional entity not particularly versed in post-singularity, multi-dimensional physics and computational theory.

The RDF, The Veil, The "Really-Annoying-Mess-Up-Everyones-Lives" Field, appears to start collapsing or 'twisting' in several personal accounts. In fact, it would seem that there are certain individuals who have appeared to figure out means of 'gazing-past' the gaps in said previously mentioned field even though they do not have one of their own. Yes it has been theorized that they will soon fall victim to the ROB, however, consider that all of this is in one sense mere coding (albeit it happens to be far more complex than that), and that said people are taking advantage of 'bugs' in the code. How many bugs are there? Is it possible for someone (probably a changed, or mad scientist) to 'tune' or 'tinker' with the field, probably no more than tweaks to appearance or color? I know the Primary Engineer Of This Work has stated that there are no 'powers', but then again, this is all just code, and hackers can sometimes be just mortal.

Just a thought or two. I should probably stop this monologue before a super spy shows up.
~midon~

:You're pretty close overall, though the simulation doesn't necessarily have to be of the ROB's own creation. Human Earth could be something It came up with all by Itself. Another book that's similar to what I've come up with here is ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_(novel) Darwinia]''. Someone suggested that the best thing for the ROB to do is to restore from backup. The thing is, these are still people. ROB doesn't have a moral problem with allowing them to die within the sim, but will act to protect both itself and its people from an outside threat. Hence the RDF and other measures.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 17:46, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Thinking far future... ==

First, to make it VERY clear, I am NOT thinking of any stories or anything set in the 2020 period yet. I've just been thinking of how the world may be like by then, as the last half are about to change.

I suspect there would be a mix of celebration (the last humans are joining us!) and mourning (humans will no longer be as they were). Regionally, there will probably be searches for the "last human baby", the ones born days/hours before the last Aug 17 change; they'd probably be local celebrities, similar to "New Years Babies"

And in 2021, the nervousness would start. Is the change source gone? Is it mutating? Are we going to change further? Or into something else now? For the Changed Generation, that little shiver of fear every August 17th will probably persist until they are all gone.

All that assumes civilization hasn't fallen apart by then of course. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:42, 25 February 2008 (EST)

== Summer Olympics ==

This was nagging at the back of my mind a bit, but I finally nailed it down to actually check dates:

:"The 2008 Summer Olympics, officially known as the Games of the XXIX Olympiad, will be celebrated from August 8, 2008 to August 24, 2008".

For the record, the 2004 Olympics also just straddled the Change day, having started on Aug 13th. No other Summer Olympics have straddled Change day, but the 1996 games ended just before it, and the Paralympic Games that year did straddle the Change day.

The 2012 games in London curiously have a break between the end of the Olympics on Aug 12, 2012, and the start of the Paralympics on Aug 29.

Just something to think about for writers out there. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:The Change takes place right in the middle of the Olympics. All it takes is for one or two athletes to change to gum up the works. These people are already in top physical shape, too. But what happens when a swimmer becomes a dolphin, an otter, or perhaps something that doesn't swim well? I don't think the RDF can handle becoming as large as a rhino. They'll still displace an awful lot of water when they splash in.

:I'll have to mention this in Open Secrets.

:--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:53, 27 February 2008 (EST)

::At least the illness will be a bit of a cover. Depending on how many Changed athletes there are, (both active and new Changed), the illness could be used to skip out on some events out of necessity.

::Still the pressure to perform, even if their form is inappropriate for the sport (A Bull trying to do a polevault or the triathlon in general? A bear for gymnastics? A Mouse in weightlifting? ) will be intense

::There would probably be a lot of discussion when a star athlete suddenly isn't performing as well as they did before.

::Of course, a few years after that, the Beijing Olympics here will probably end up with a * like the LA and Moscow Olympics, as people find out about the Change and the number of ringers (otters in swimming events, felines and primates in gymnastics, gazelles and cheetahs in track events, bears and bulls in weight lifting, etc...) semi-intentionally sent by the various countries. We could very well see TTC-level problems happening in Olympic Village.

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== What happens ''after'' 2020? ==

Point one: Computer programs are never ''intrinsically'' equipped with an off-switch. Rather, a shutdown condition must be explicitly coded into a program -- and any program which ''lacks'' an explicit shutdown condition, will continue to chug merrily along until something hardware-ish gets in the way.

Point two: The Change is the result of a 'furry virus", ''i.e.,'' a '''computer program'''.

2020 is when the entire planetary population will be furry... but who's to say the 'furry virus' won't ''continue'' to do its thing, Changing people year in and year out, with each year's quantity of Changes being double that of the year before? We know that being Changed is ''not'' an absolute protection against the 'furry virus' -- the setting rules themselves ''explicitly allow'' previously-Changed people to get hit with another dose of Change, after all -- so ''either'' (a) the 'furry virus' ''does'' have an explicitly-coded off-switch, or else (b) starting in 2020, an ever-increasing number of people are going to end up Changing ''two or more times in any given year.''

If the 'furry virus' ''has'' a built-in off-switch, that begs the question of what, exactly, its shutdown condition ''is.'' Does it stop spreading/infecting when there's no unchanged Human left, is it waiting for some specific event or combination of events before it quits, or what? Perhaps the guy who wrote the 'furry virus' did so with the specific intent of encouraging ROB to make [insert specific changes here] in ROB's virtual world, such that the results of those changes are the virus's 'off-switch'?

If, on the other hand, the 'furry virus' has ''no'' built-in brakes, things can get weird, fast. People have already floated the notion of Changes happening "out of season"; what if these 'unscheduled' Changes are merely a harbinger of things to come, in which people can be re-zapped at any time of year, an arbitrarily large number of times per year? It may be instructive, or at least amusing, to extrapolate the data given in "The Numbers", and divide each year's expected number of Changes by the expected population for that year: In 2020, there's 1.12 Changes per person (perhaps every human being Changes, regardless of their current state, and there's a 12% chance of one guy Changing ''twice?).'' Since we're basically talking about a doubling function, it only takes until 2024 for every ex-human to be an involuntary member of the Change Of The Month Club (because there's a touch over 17 Changes per person that year), and the Change Of The '''Day''' Club starts up in 2029 (during which year there's a bit less than 514 Changes per person per year). In 2034, the extrapolated number of Changes per person for that year is significantly over 15,000 (which works out to about 7/4 of a Change ''per hour,'' every hour, for every human being); by 2040, we hit 1.75 Changes per ''minute;'' 2046 is when every human being starts to hit 1 Change per ''second.''

To repeat what I said above: Things get weird, fast.

Obviously, the above figures are ridiculous, since they're derived from mindless extrapolation of an exponential curve. Perhaps the most sensible way to go is to presume that ROB manages to ''do'' something about the metatstasizing 'furry virus' no later than 2025 or so. In any case, one hopes said figures at least provide a bit of food for thought... [[User:Cubist|Cubist]] 05:03, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

== Change and the Media ==

It's probably a sign that I watch WAY too much TV, but it's a theme that's been in the back of my mind (man that back area's getting mighty crowded with ideas). As the Change progresses, even with the Veil in place, more and more effects of the Change will start showing up in other ways, and it will become more and more 'public' even if the Unchanged won't really know what is going on. I suspect TV shows especially will begin to show a lot of these.

This is just some of my rambling thoughts on what the TV Cable signals might be sending to the screens of the Changed near-Future.

Reality TV in all its forms will probably be the first to really start showing the effects of the Changed, since they tend to have the fastest turnaround time and the most contact with non-actors. Court shows (like I wrote in my short story case) will have more and more cases of Changed vs Norms and even weird Changed vs Changed cases. "He won't share the nail clippers!" "She gifted me the money for the vacation to Alaska in January")

Gameshows also will start having more Changed contestants, especially popular ones like Price is Right.

And then you have the Survivor types. Show's like "Top Model" and "Bachelor(ette)" and "Blind Date" (especially given the Change's habit of giving the Changed Eye-turning bodies) will probably have the most Changed on a show early on (whether intentionally or unintentionally).

Home Makeover shows may start seeing even weirder designs as designers/homeowners remake rooms to give room for antlers or bigger buttons for hoof fingers and such. (We thought Frank's designs on Trading Spaces were weird BEFORE he Changed... :P )

Amazing Race may have a Changed Team soon; a few Changed in the Big Brother House (probably intentionally put in there by a Changed Studio staffer), and the next Survivor or two would probably have some contestants.

Once the Field comes down, I fully expect CBS to roll out a "Furries vs Normals" Survivor while they can.

Now onto more tasteful TV. (arguably :P )

Cartoons? (what few new ones that are made) will likely start having more and more of a furry bend to them. Hallowe'en specials may turn 'human' toons into furry ones as experiments to transition shows.

Soaps? Expect Change stories fairly soon I dare say. I don't watch them myself, but from what I've heard of some storylines they've done in the past, the Change isn't all that strange. These writers will probably be chaffing at the restrictions of the Field the most.

Sitcoms will probably start getting Changed in-jokes fairly quickly as more Changed writers and actors come on staff. Some of the jokes may verge on Veil-breaking too, but viewers would discount as visual FX.

Procedurals/Drama's, business as normal but more Change-related stories. Maulings and gorings investigated on CSI's (along with strange fingerprints/bootprints, hair samples, etc...), Without a Trace investigating people who disappear after Change Day, maybe even a TG mystery. Numb3rs maybe touching on the Change rate (imagine Chris brought in as an advisor for an ep ? :) ). House or ER dealing with a Changed patient and/or Changed doctors/nurses.

And finally (for now) Sci Fi/Fantasy shows will probably find themselves in a very difficult position. On the one hand, they'd be ideal to start exploring the Change itself. On the other hand, as long as the Field is in effect, they can't really explore them since they'd have to turn normals into Furry's (or dress furry's in fursuits). Plus, a show's setting may not exactly be ideal for adjusting to the Change. "SG-1/Atlantis" may be able to adjust (turn it into an Ori curse or something), but Terminator would have a harder time. Heroes could probably pull it off, but BSG? Unlikely. (Imagine them finding 'Earth' but it's a Furry Earth... Hmmm...)

Anyways, that's just some of my rambling thoughts on the TV of the near future, for what its worth.

:There's a simple way to make furries show up in Television. Simply use the polarized lenses as featured in Open Secrets on the video camera units. The image of the furries would pass through the polarized lenses onto the film. The film would record the true image in the same way that people would see the true image. Boom, RDF circumvented. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:26, 28 January 2009 (EST)

:: True those would work. But everyone involved for those scenes would have to Know or questions would be raised. Depending on the scene and production. (Thouhg some could be handwaved, as long as the producer/editors Know. "Bob's gonna play the part of a man-rat for this scene. We'll CG-replace him in Editing afterward"

::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 12:33, 28 January 2009 (EST)

::: Well, at the very least, the cameraman is going to be in the know fast! Actually, I could see something like this being done once things go public. We could have a documentary on the early Changed (while you can still get human actors!), and you'd have some cameras with the filter on it and some without so you could show what the Changed sees and what the unsuspecting humans around him see. --[[User:98.236.12.68|98.236.12.68]] 05:14, 29 January 2009 (EST)

:::: That is happening to some extent, though not with the filters yet. Shiloh (and her new boyfriend newly Changed this year) are doing what they can to document the Change and how it affects lives as it happens (on the side from their main jobs), and I'm sure she's far from alone on this.

:::: Once more Documentary makers get ahold of this and it goes public, I'm sure there will be more too.

::::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:33, 29 January 2009 (EST)

== Furries in Space? ==

OK Time for even more thoughts from me. :) Endeavor's launch last night triggered this thought.

I'm not going to elaborate, but is anyone watching the ISS crew for change symptoms? Or the shuttle crew if they're up? A Change up there could be Veil breaking just because of the amount of attention and lack of privacy those people have. (not to mention the extreme circumstances they'd be under).

The Change itself could very well spell the end of Manned space flight for the next few decades in the end.

Not sure if it would spell the end of manned space flight but yeah even just an examination of the air filter would find stuff that couldn't have gotten up there any other way.--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 19:16, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

:I'm sure it'd be the end of manned space flight for quite some time simply for economic reasons if nothing else. This is going to be rather disruptive and there'll probably be a bit of a budget pinch. [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

==The Reality Distortion Field is Real ==

Sadly, not the one you have in mind: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/18/2117208 :) [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

== Bats? ==

Just a question about the species: I've noticed you put aside birds for now, but what about bats?--[[User:142.68.130.19|142.68.130.19]] 23:52, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:Bats will put a huge strain on the Veil. If/when they do show up, it might be coming down by then anyway. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:36, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Farming in Paradise ==

Just shooting an idea in here for later. [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080410153658.htm This is the technology] widely deployed it the Paradise setting. But put the clock back ten years (1997 discovery, widespread global deployment by 2008). Biochar/agrichar. With any luck, the Green Revolution will be replaced with the Black Gold Revolution quickly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== BioFuels ==

Jon, you're beginning to scare me a bit. :P

This was just on Slashdot this morning: [http://www.utexas.edu/news/2008/04/23/biofuel_microbe/ New Source for Biofuels Discovered by Researchers At The University of Texas at Austin]

Basically, some bacteria that can make cellulose which can be turned to fuel, and the cellulose can be harvested without harming the bacteria.
--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 06:10, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

:I read about this yesterday. They hope to increase production efficiency 17-fold because otherwise, you'd have to cover the ''entire'' Midwest with this. Unfortunately it won't happen fast enough to prevent the shortages I know are coming.

:I read about this stuff every day. I mean, ''every'' day. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:19, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Another bit of news: [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece "Scientists find bugs that eat waste and excrete petrol."] --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 11:12, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== The Chicago Ghost Killer ==

After having seen countless videos of Persona 3 on youtube, and having played the .hack//GU games, and having read about this setting repeatedly, this idea was born out of my skull. It doesn't really fit with the setting per-say, (people dealing with expected changes in their lives and the changing of culture as truth becomes harder and harder to keep hidden), but it's still interesting.

Imagine if once the number of furries hits the thousand mark or close to it (1997), a strange series of murders begin in Chiago and wander outwards. To normal police and investigators these people have -nothing- in common, just random innocent people. But the furries know that every single person killed was a furry! Now this is where things start to get weird.

When seen by furries, the killer is a lanky laid back twenty something raven haired young man whose expression almost always remains passive wearing semi-formal dark clothes with a revolver in one hand and spare bullets in the opposite pocket.

When the police just about anyone else whose effected by the perception filter see him, they see 'Average Joe' or 'Face You Can't Help But Forget' and never ever notice the weapon he's holding unless he hits them with it or shoots them or something just as drastic. It is also is picked up by metal detectors the same as any metal gun. In other words, his existence, is like the existence of furriness to normal humans, his existence effects them, but they can't notice him directly.

This guy always knows a furry when he sees one regardless of media or medium, or reads one, this include file records of people TGed by the virus. When he spots one or finds out about one, he calmly location that person, in order of him learning about them, and shoot that person in the head without fanfare then simply move on to the next one.

Physically his strength and speed are all perfectly average human, meaning a bear or tiger furry could easy tear him apart.

Strange thing is that if profiled, no records of him will turn up, anywhere!

Also, he might even begin to appear DIFFERENTLY to people who are under the effect of the perception filter. He can't appear as a furry, and can NEVER EVER appear as a precise person (he can't appear as someone's mother or brother). But he can ultimately change how people look at him, they see a five year old girl with a teddy bear opposed to a man with a revolver even if he STILL can't fit in a toy car for the life of him and that 'bear' might go off if someone else 'hugs' it, (which he'd avoid someone doing at all posts). He could also appear as a fire fighter or police officer if he gets clever enough. Though furries will -always- see through this disguise. Along with any human whose able to see furries without effort.

The Chicago Ghost Killer never attacks non-changed humans, and will never take a shot if there's a reasonable chance of shooting a non-changed person.

He travels by mundane methods, he always travels by the most practical and speedy method and always has the correct change or ticket (this is not an illusion). His taxi, train, or airplane never crash.

If detained for questioning, he might just walk straight out of the police station unless some of the cops are furries. If stripped of his weapon and ammo next time he shows up he'll have a new set perfectly identical to the last one down to the imperfections in the casing.

Now this is where things get ambiguous. I don't know if he's killed he just appears in Chicago the day after the change again each year, or weather two different people with abilities similar to his appear in his stead these armed with a crossbow and another one shot distance weapon.

Since deleting the entire universe is not an option, The Chicago Ghost Killer might be an emergency fail safe to try and cut off the infected flesh from the system.

His name comes from where he started killing (strangely the same place as the changes began) and the fact that to normal humans he IS like a ghost, there yet not there but decidedly felt.

I know this doesn't really fit with the setting at all, but I just had to share it with the only people who'd appreciate it.

Thank you.

- Alex Warlorn. 2008 06 15

:And his name is Agent Johnathan Walker Smith, is it? Seems like a Matrix Agent to me... (unsigned comment)
::Actually I don't think he'd -have- a name, or even know the true nature of the world, he'd just know what he -had- to do and how to do it and how he can do it.-- Alex Warlorn

== Octuplets born in California ==

Things that make you go Hmmmm....

8 babies at once
Planning to breast feed them all.
Names not being released (yet).

Could we have a changed couple hiding out there from the glare of the media spotlight? :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:25, 27 January 2009 (EST)

=='''Future RDF Failure'''==

I'm starting to work out ideas about how the RDF would fail. My current thinking is that it will work on a small scale first. Visually, there would be a "refraction", like seeing your own eyes through your glasses. Or your leg halfway in a pool. This is the "Refraction Effect". These are places where the RDF has been removed, like a section of glass, revealing the Real World underneath. It's gone. The visual effect makes it clear a border's been crossed. I'm not sure ''when'' this is going to happen. Probably sometime near the US Gov wants to go public. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 07:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

===Weirdness Censor?===

I've been thinking about an "RDF Lite" that could basically act as a Weirdness Censor instead of the full blown see-furries-as-humans version that exists right now. There'd still be social upheaval, but not the civilization-ending type that would most likely happen. I'm very likely going to do this in After Hours, but I want to do it right. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

==The "Posthuman" World ==

In order to differentiate this setting from WoC more, I'm going to keep a certain number of regular humans in the furry world that results when the virus runs its course. Same rules as other furry types as far as parent-child species. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 19:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

:No offense, but that feels like a cop-out to me. As someone else pointed out, a computer virus is NOT going to simply 'burn itself out' a computer virus continues like any program infinitely unless it's directly ordered to. Once it runs out of humans to transform, it'll start to transform furries into other species, and become even more chaotic as time progresses. I just feels cheap the virus suddenly just stops, and it doesn't make sense form a programming point of view either since it would open MANY MORE cans of worms anyway. -- Alex Warlorn June 15 2009

::Okay. How to address this? A lot of my ideas for this setting comes from Charles Stross's work, which can get pretty mind-bending at times. ''Accelerando, Glasshouse, Singularity Sky'', and ''Iron Sunrise'' all come to mind. One of my basic assumptions is that the Furry Virus is itself sentient/sapient, but it's not ''quite'' as smart as the transhuman intelligence running the Simulation Space that is our universe (down to the Planck Length).

::The RDF was a last-ditch effort to maintain the experiment as it was. We're all a bunch of microbes, as far as ROB is concerned. But It's not the type of Being to just chuck the whole experiment into the incinerator and start over. At this point ROB has scrapped the original experiment in favor of trying to prevent our little petri dish universe from going completely bad. So, 1) contain the Furry Virus, and 2) prevent it from doing any more damage beyond 2020 by creating a specific End State. The FV remains, but it becomes an uncommon chronic disease.

::Frankly, now that furries and the TGed have been Outed ROB may even stop the history editing. More obvious actions include: Refilling dead oilfields, creating social conditions so humans aren't really surprised at the Change. There are probably all kinds of countermeasures ROB has done that I haven't thought of in order to keep people from going ''crazy crazy'' and incinerating their own petri dish. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::I was thinking of a similar idea, but in a programming context as opposed to a biological one, and ''very'' limited. Think of every person as an element of an array, i.e. Human[]. An algorithm designed to change the values of every element, like the furry virus is doing, would most likely go from 0 to some constant POPULATION_HUMAN. In that case, ROB might be able to circumvent the effects for the virus for a select few by assigning people to special values: NULL, NaN, -1, MAX_INT, INFINITY, or other predefined numbers, even those that aren't considered "special" to humans. The purpose of this would be to preserve ''some'' unaltered "data" for purposes not important to us, and it can't be done for all humans because of the effort or memory required to "manually" fix so many values.

:::Conversely, perhaps ROB will let the virus run its course so It can then safely run a variation of the virus to turn everyone back into humans. That would be another interesting take: when the world's furry in 2020, how will everyone feel when they find out they'll all be human again by about 2055, depending on population, and perhaps if the same thing happens in cycles? ...

:::...Or if it turns out that life has been this way for a long, ''long'' time. Thinking back to what ROB has been able to do, this is easily within Its power. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 05:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::ROB figures it's best to let the virus run its course then neutralize it like I've described. Perhaps ROB's reworking the Experiment to account for the new changes.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Colons! Colons as far as the eye can see! Ahaha.

:::::One little problem I had with ''Accelerando'' (though I did indeed love it in all other respects) was how completely unfathomable the Higher Beings were. You never could figure out what their reasons were for anything…and in fact, in all their interactions with the remnants of pre-Singularity humanity, they mostly seemed to delight in "poking the anthill". Sending boatloads of recreations of historical and fictitious characters out to that space station just to mess with humanity's minds. And not only could you not ask them why, you wouldn't be able to understand their answer if you did. Hence, one of the things that you hope you learn in the end—the question of "why?"—is forever unanswered.

:::::It would be kind of nice to have some of the characters eventually be able to confront ROB and the virus and ask them what the deal was, but I'm not holding my breath any. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 06:22, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

::::::I'm very, ''very'' careful not to jump the shark. But at the very least ROB does have some empathy for us microbes. While ROB does do some "resimulation" for TGed folk, it absolutely ''will not'' alter memories because that would cause personality death.

::::::Paradise is more similar too ''[http://www.amazon.com/Darwinia-Novel-Different-Twentieth-Century/dp/0812566629 Darwinia]'' than ''Accelerando''. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Another possibility I just thought about: perhaps this isn't the act of a virus at all. Instead this is the fix to an ancient "Human Virus" that infected the universe, and it's just restoring the original experiment (or whatever). Or if you ''really'' want to throw people off: humanity ''is'' the virus itself, and this is how ROB is solving the problem. -- [[User:MisterBackground|MisterBackground]] 07:25, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

::Well, to be fair, this is a post-Singularity virus. Nobody ever said it was strictly one-function only. For all we know, it may have a behavioral change programmed into it. "Take Z action until condition A is met, then switch to taking Y action until condition B is met, etc." Or heck, the virus itself may be a sentient/sapient digital life form with free will, fully able to "change its mind" when it wants to. Certainly there is some intelligent agency at work behind the Reality Distortion Field that has already shown the ability to change its own behavior or react to changes in infected people's situations (changing TG furs' "ghosts"—and all extant records—from male to female when they get pregnant, for instance). No reason the virus can't be the same way. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 23:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

:How is that going to work? I'm not sure how humanity can propagate by the "same rules" as other furry types given that it's been established humans and furres are not able to interbreed. Perhaps there might be an inverse of the Sleeping Sickness (a Waking Sickness? :) which causes furries to randomly mutate back into human in addition to the other types of furry form? —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 22:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

::Two thoughts: 1) In 2021 there's a group of humans worldwide who don't Change. They're simply the one species among many. After this point they can breed with furres because the RDF is down anyway. Perhaps they can already do this in Bubbled areas in 2010. 2) Human forms can be a recessional trait that shows up on occasion, between two furres.

::Furry babies already look ''very'' human due to a type of neoteny. Even the herbivores like horses and deer have very stubby muzzles. It looks more like a mask when they're born. Within two years those muzzle stubs grow the "baby animal" proportions, then as normal. They're generally more thinly furred for those first two years also. I keep thinking of puppies. No matter what the breed, they all look ''extremely'' similar when newborn. Same will be true in this setting. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, TG and TF will continue. I'm thinking of something akin to Matthias' character, with random changes. It'll be considered a chronic disease. And the severe forms ''can'' kill you. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Possibly the first occurance of ROB ==

As I mentioned when I introduced him, ROB (Random Omnipotent Being) comes from some other message boards I regularly view/visit. Well someone seems to have found what may have been the first occurrence of ROB. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=53955] Pretty humble beginnings for him if you ask me. :) (His brother, COROB (Crossover Obsessed Random Omnipotent Being) similarly had humble beginnings a month or so later. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=55397] )

== The RDF and extra extremities. ==

Assume here that the RDF is functioning normally and hasn't broken down. Normal humans can't feel the extra extremities of the Changed, like tails and horns - they just feel empty air. But what would another Changed see if they were to look at a normal human attempting to touch a Changed's tail? Would they see the human seemingly passing their hand through the tail of the Changed? [[User:CNash|CNash]] 23:52, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

:I think you've got it wrong. Extra extremities can still be physically felt. The RDF is like a holographic cloak around the changed - it doesn't actually have an effect on their form. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 00:57, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:Shadow is basically correct. Their hand wouldn't pass through empty air. They would meet some weird resistance, but they'd forget about it in a short time. Other Changed would see them touch the tail they can't see. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:: I was going by a line in "Made Alone"; CM's diary entry: ''I say, `Oh yeah, here, grab my tail'. He humors me, but he cannot feel it. I feel him put his hand on it, but he just doesn't feel it.'' - I haven't yet read through all the stories and I'm going chronologically. [[User:CNash|CNash]] 11:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

:::If there's one thing I've learned about running a shared setting is to ''not'' demand ironclad continuity. I always allow authors leeway for dramatic purposes, and I don't mind if events don't quite match up. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:19, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

::::Given that is the earliest described Change event, I just assumed that the Veil was stronger back then, and since lessened to the extent of allowing feeling of extremities. —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 07:32, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

== Glitch ==

Assertion one: Universe of Paradise setting is mathmatically generated by advanced post-singularity computer. Assertion two: Pre-singularity computers have demonstrated randomized renumbering of internal programing due to outside factors. These renumberings are identified as "glitches," having no basis in programming like bugs and viruses. Assumption: Post singularity computer operates with similar if heavily advanced hardware as pre-singularity computer. Conclusion: Randomized renumberings of programming will occur independently of programming. That is to say, it is not inconceivable that somewhere, a coffee cup on the table is suddenly on the counter. Or that an ant becomes a different species of ant. Or that a gray-eyed man one day has blue eyes. Perhaps these small changes are common and constant. -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 05:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

== Species Expansion ==

We have already seen at least one Elephant man. Is the Furry Virus, as it expands, drawing from a larger gene base? And if so, when would the first nonmammalians arise? Personally, I'm expecting crocs in the near future. Perhaps even 2010... -- [[User:Masterweaver|Masterweaver]] 22:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

:The setting is mammals only. Reptiles and birds have very different reproductive biologies. Birds wouldn't be able to fly and cold-blooded creatures can't support a human-like brain and its energy requirements. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 01:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== An observation ==

From what I've read, the 'computer simulation' theory is just that- a theory. There's no point blank evidence that this is what's happening within the storyline, and, while I obviously shouldn't just stroll in and rewrite things, but I'd ask the main participators in this storyline to keep this in mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- (note added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC))

:Jon is the creator of the setting and he has final say in these things... He has not ruled on this yet, but I think he will if it becomes a problem. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 22:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== If a person doesn't TF again next year... ==

Maybe I missed something. Is it right that if a person doesn't TF again the year after they first change, they stop changing for good? Thinking of the story's setting (computer simulation), if the change is caused by a virus, surely it could keep affcting people? If that doesn't make sense I'll expand, but surely someone knows what I'm talking about. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]] -- signature added by [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] )

:First it's "bear", not "bare" - homophones are a big stumbling point for a large portion of people, so I try to help people where I can with them :)

: Second... Remember that the whole "post-singularity simulation infected by a virus" schtick is just one possible cause. Jon has said that it could be, but has not pinned it on that. If it really is a virus, then there is a possibility that you could change again 20 years down the line. However... It might be that the multi-change people are somehow an exception - like the virus leaves behind a flag saying "infected" (you'll find this with existing computer viruses, actually) and with multi-changers this flag is missing. Or it could be that the multi-changers are actually being created because of ROB trying to undo the damage done by the virus. And a third possibility is that there is no "virus" and the change is happening according to a plan setup by the people that programmed the simulation - and the multi-changers were randomly selected to be multi-changers.

:In other words... Even if you assume that the postulated "post-singularity simulation" is reality the change could be more than a virus and the limits on multiple changes could be somehow tied directly to the purposes that the simulation was created for... Anyway... I've gone on too long with this. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 19:03, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

::Ugh. I actually thought whilst typing, "that's not right, it should be bare..." blast. So much for trying to write a story if I can't do that kind of simple thing.

::Thanks for your help. I'm trying to make sure I understand the setting as best I can so I can make my story (hopefully a series, but maybe I'm being a bit ambitious) as best as possible. I'm trying to break the mould... Most characters in the Paradise setting seem to be similar. If my first attempt works, I might try one with a different character... Actually, I'd probably do it even if it didn't work :) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Just to be clear, it is a simulation running on a post-Singularity cloud of computronium. And it is a virus doing the dirty work. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:34, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:::: *GACK* - Last time I read the setting page that was still a "speculation" bit :( -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

== Human/Furry detail ==

More prattling, sorry. Bear with me (Heh. Got it right this time.).

The information on smaller details in the differences between humans and furs is irritatingly lax, and I hit a block while writing my own story stressing over an incredibly minor detail. My problem aside, I think that the lack of detail makes it awkward to write... Would two characters that changed into the same species be exactly the same anatomically? I'm not sure. A couple of stories have thrown me in that respect, mainly "A Kind of Paradise", and "Twisting the Veil". I feel like I'm having a bit of a whine actually, and should just get on with it, but right now, I feel like speaking my mind. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:The anatomical differences between furry species can vary, but not so much that they become incompatible with each other. This is why I didn't want to add birds/reptiles/fish/insects. They're just too different. If they're the same species, they're exactly the same. There is a variance in hair (Some have it, some don't) otherwise everyone is firmly anthro rather than, say, animal ears and tail and nothing else. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:37, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I understand why there are only mammals in the setting, personally I think it's a good choice. I wasn't really thinking about the degrees of how human/animalistic people are, but rather what traits they take on when they change. For example, I know that people have commented on changes in sounds and smells, but not sight, is sight affected? And, as for traits, I know that most species of rodents are incapable of vomiting, fox example. But would the humans be affected by this? Of course, I'm not asking for all the details, that would be ridiculous considering the number of possibilities. I just don't want to write something that doesn't follow the rules of the setting. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::Actually... Things like that are, IMHO, why the 'Sleeping Sickness' bracelets have been issued. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Um, yes, those. Maybe I haven't been reading the right stories, but to the best of my knowledge, the bracelets are to let doctors know (provided they already know about the whole thing) what you changed into. Have I missed something? (I feel like I'm asking too many questions. Sorry.) -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

:::::There is a mention in one of a changed that was a species to which aspirin is toxic being killed by a doctor prescribing aspirin... I just don't remember which story that was. The stories about Doctor Clay have most of the good information about how changed can suffer from problems/illnesses incumbent to their species. (IIRC there is a judge that starts suffering from a problem only seen in horses - and he's a horse...) -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 08:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::::The idea behind the "Sleeping Sickness" bracelets was pretty much a (bad) attempt by a small group at the CDC to get help to Changed. Hospitals were supposed to report such cases that presented in order for doctors in the know to be summoned. It was created essentally with the idea that it wasn't really a workable solution, but the best that could be come up with. The factoid that came up about toxic medications was based on a factoid I heard many years ago, that penicillian has a singular toxicity for rodents. As such, as drug testing is set up today, its unlikely it would ever be approved. The idea is that there is enough transformation that people might pick up certiain toxic reactions to things that they didn't realize. I'm not sure anyone has really gone into depth with this, but I'd think you could infer that some canines would have violent reactions to chocolate, for example. Like all things, there would be some variability, just like some dogs can seem to eat chocolate fine while others it might kill. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 23:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

== Extreame ROB ==

I had an odd thought last night about the implications of what ROB does with respect to rewriting documentation of peoples pasts. ROB has been known to change paperwork, pictures and even apparent histories of people. (Didn't someone in After Hours discover they were supposed to have dated people earlier as the opposite gender?) That got me to thinking about how far this might all go. Assuming that ROB doesn't actually start to mess with memories, will it start to alter older records? Pictures from earlier than the first Change, even for subjects that died before it all started? Paintings? And would they be consistent? Would every painting done of George Washington find the same form? And to take it a few steps further, what about statues? This could get messy... which isn't always a bad thing from a story perspective. -- [[User:Eirik|Eirik]] 15:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:I can see that happening more as a result of the furry virus, since that kind of extreme "history editing" feels more malevolent to me than something ROB would do. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 20:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Interesting though that would be, it's an important plot mechanic for there to still be remnants of the human world - Once the entire human race has transformed, they need to still be aware that this has happened - Rewriting history would remove this and it would be as if nothing happened... if you see what I mean? -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

::It would make sense for things to get messy if it were the virus causing it. Sloppy, half rewritten pasts, people not sure of what really happened and what didn't, more like a temporal infection than a careful rewriting. That kind of scare could lead the reader to be a bit more sympathetic about ROB trying to stop the virus's progression. It would also make a great opportunity to go all Serial Experiments Lain on a story and leave people wondering wtf -- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:10, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Furry Sizes ==

What size are furries? It's pretty clear that bears are big and mice are small, and it mostly makes sense to have the same thing (but not as extreme) for anthroid furries, but there are some other size differences I can't so easily imagine. Some guidelines might be helpful. Ferrets in particular, ferret males are often twice as big as ferret females, as is the case of many mustelids, but at the same time both of them are smaller than cats. If I make a female ferret larger than a rat, and a male ferret smaller than a cat, that's starting to leave not so much room to spare. If I had to finagle a scale I'd say

* mice - 1.2 meters (or less!)
* rats - 1.3 meters
* female ferrets, squirrels, minks, etc - 1.4 meters
* male ferrets, ringtails, mongooses - 1.6 meters
* female cats - 1.7 meters
* male cats, skunks, raccoons - 1.8 meters uh...
* big cats and wolves - 1.9-2.0
* big stuff like bears - all the way to 2.2.

But then again it might also be fun to have a 2 metres tall cavy. GEORGE LOVES YOU COME GIVE GEORGE A BIG HUG.

Maybe illustrating size differences between sexes is a bit too piccaunish. >.<
-- [[User:Pandora|Tasci]] 09:04, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

:I should personally think that irrelevant. While there's clearly going to be some destinction between heights and races, I think guidelines are unnesecary. People come in all shapes and sizes, this individuallity should be maintained. -- [[User:MCMackers|MCMackers]]

== Human Survival ==

Since the US government, and governments of the world, would have obviously known about the furry changes for many years as government officials became Changed, they logically would have set up Projects (like the Manhattan Project) to study the reasons and try and find a solution. It is obvious to them that the end of humanity will come and this should have all contries of the world enganged in studying the scientific causes of the RDF and ways to affect it. Many of the scientists themselves who get changed would surely want to study the effect. Any physics professor changed would jump at the chance to study it and get the next Nobel prize for figuring it out. It does defy natural laws, therefore the new laws it does follow can be studied. If there is some master computer responsible for the universe, such as in Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, then this it might be possible for a "super computer" build by the UN or whoever to communicate with the ROB virus program or even the Master computer itself, and change it, such as the computer "Obie" in the Well World books. Personally, I favor a different approach. In 1987 a super computer someplace near Chicago DID develop self awareness, predicted that mankind was going to overpopulate and destroy the planet, and it decided to "FIX" things by connecting with the main universal computer at the center of the universe on a night when the least number of galaxies are in the way, which happens to be Aug 17. The governments at some point would find out that the birth rate is on a serious decline even though it is possible for furries to have babies, it is not as common as humans due to all the different genetics and species involved. Mating a horse furry with a rabbit furry is much less likly to produce offspring, for example, that mating a horse furry with another horse furry, so regardless of who was married to who when they are human, statistically the couple won't be able to have children after both change, unless they are the same. Some story about finding the ROB computer near Chicago before 2020 should be a possibility and reasoning with it might be a good solution.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:37, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:The thing is, there is no ROB computer in our world, if I'm understanding what you're saying here. It isn't like Obie or the Well World where it's something inside the Universe itself that's causing the Change. This setting--basically our world--exists as a Planck-level simulation space inside a post-Singularity posthuman computer. There are two viruses (also posthuman, slightly more advanced) responsible for the Change: A relatively controllable TG virus, and the much newer "furry virus" that ROB can't contain with "history editing".
Keep in mind that governments didn't really know this was even happening until the early 2000s.
Otherwise, the RDF/Change as a source of study for physicists is a good angle.
-- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:57, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::I just hate to plug but if you want an example of how goverments might screw up the change read my story [[User:Fibio|Cascade Failure]]
-- [[User:Fibio|Fibio]] 20:42, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

::Of course, in a way it's kind of pointless even to know about it, since I can't really foresee any way that it could ever become a plot point within the story itself. I can't really see humanity figuring out how to "hack" its way out.
It doesn't really make that much of a difference, from an in-universe standpoint, to assume that it's all being done by "magic". (Any sufficiently advanced technology…) —- [[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 21:23, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Pretty much [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityWarper] all around. :) -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thanks folks for all the replies to my post! People to talk to! OK, first JonBuck, I am not really sure I understand all the Plank-level simulation space inside a post-singularity posthuman supercomputer stuff (I did try to look up the story Accelerando but I just found a book cover) but I interpret this to mean: Plank-Level = really really small; simulation space = not real or temporary space in computer memory; post-singularity = after a black hole evaporates in about a few trillion years; post human = mankind extinct; supercomputer = something like the Cosmic AC in [http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html] ?

However, my ignorance aside, regardless of what the supercomputer is, or what we are, it would in effect be God. Now ROB could represent the devil, or if God has gone crazy, the savior. ROB either was created by the supercomputer "GOD" on purpose or by accident, it was created by a simulation universe, either our own, a past one, or another running concurrently, to infect God, or it was created by God's creators as some part of the God computer for some purpose and function, and if that is the case then either it is carrying out its intended program or it has malfunctioned. I think that is a complete list of all possible options, so if I have missed one then please let me know.

You stated, "It comes from outside the post-Singularity brain, and is slightly more advanced than "ours". What's happening is this bit of malicious code (sentient, no less, but on a level far beyond our ability to comprehend it) is messing up the simulated world we reside in. Why? I dunno. One of those inscrutable things." This sentient "virus" needs to have come from one of the posibilities above, and I suppose it is up to you to decide which, but since "you dunno", then I will try to help.

I guess the first question is "Why did God create the universe?" which translated means "Why is the supercomputer running the simulation?" Is the goal good or evil? Perhaps the supercomputer was programed to do so for an evil purpose by its creators, and ROB is sort of like its concience it has developed and wants to mess up the experiment before it can produce evil results. I would favor ROB being good, instead of evil, perhaps trying to produce a different result that will end up doing good than if the simulation ran to completion on its present course. However, that being said, if ROB is a computer virus, and based on logic and programable, and is expending energy to maintain the RDF, scientists studying that might find a way to..either communicate with it, grab its attention, or annoy it. I believe that enabeling some communication with it, even though we won't understand it completly, would produce some interesting stories.

Fibeo, I had previously read your story and just re-read it. By the way it is fine to plug :) When I read it the first time I thought that it really did not fit in with the rest of the stories since it involved time travel. In the context of a simulation, that would mean more than one running at one time, all on different timelines, and being able to hop between them. Maybe ROB is trans-simulation and could have helped this, but I really don't see how anyone in a simulation could get the supercomputer running it to re-set it to a prior time point and insert someone from a future point. It was an interesting story however and I did enjoy reading it.

Robotech, "magic" is a nice simple explanation to explain the unexplainable, but mankind strives for answers, it seeks to understand, and predict and ultimately control those things it can not immediately explain. Faced with an unexplainable force that is threatening mankind itself with extintion, mankind will use all resourses at its disposal, spare no espence, bring the greatest scientific minds, changed and unchanged to work on studying and solving the problem. It may be futile, we may never be able to win against the Gods, but it is the nature of mankind to TRY! You mentioned it is unlikly manking could "hack" its way out. That would be one possibility, since mathematics would likly be the same for both us and the supercomputer and ROB which are both based on mathmatics and logic. however, there are possibities for stories regarding that attempt..and could be very interesting. If I was a writer, I might even try writing one, but who knows...I might anyways.

Back to JonBuck. The link was to an article about people thinking something and it becoming real. Much too powerful, sort of like...writers!
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:Okay. I'm going to clarify some concepts here.
:The Singularity I'm referring to is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity Technological_singularity] . Nothing to do with gravity. A [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman further entry on posthumanism] , and its close relation, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanist Transhumanist]. By Planck-level I mean, basically, the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units smallest length in the universe] . Everything down to those levels is "simulated".
:Moving on, the kind of questions you bring up I actually don't want to deal with. The reason I'm using the ROB acronym in the first place is to avoid overtly religious connotations. I realize that they're very important, but it's otherwise such a contentious issue in the real world. I really don't want to see any "communicating with ROB" stories.
:Post-Singularity intelligences are by nature inscrutable (I've seen Stross refer to them as "Weakly Godlike Entities" in his books). At this point ROB has switched to a "salvage mode" by making direct changes to the "simulation" in the form of alleviating energy crises (a huge concern of mine at the time I wrote most of my stories in this setting) and climate change.
:''Accelerando'' is actually [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerando_%28book%29 available for free].
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:27, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks for the reply Jonbuck, the links were very helpful and I have a clearer idea what you are talking about now. It is going to take me a while to read all the stories.
::I used religious words to describe ideas simply that are familiar but did not mean in any way to be controversial.
::I will try over the next few weeks to put together a short story within your constraints, and if it exceeds your limits we can just change it. I plan to make one assumption, and that is that a simulation is defined by rules set for it that need to be obeyed for it to continue running. ROB changing the speed of light in the simulation for example would be such a fundamental change in everything that it would break the entire simulation, i.e. crash the program. ROB can only work within the rules set for the simulation, agreed?
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:12, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:::Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :) At this point the simulation is being salvaged to prevent social chaos, death, and extinction of the people inside it.
:::There's a novel out that has some very similar ideas and influenced a lot of how I set up this setting: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_%28novel%29 ''Darwinia'' by Robert Wilson] .
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:22, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply JonBuck, I can work with that, and will post something in a few weeks for your feedback.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

== About ('''2004''') '''''Victory Starts Here''''' ==

OK, JonBuck, I lied and posted the story in just 2 days. I could not stop thinking about it. I got as far as I could. Could you please read it and then tell me the results of each of the experiments before I can continue in the next one? Thanks!
[[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 00:17, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

:After the "server crash" of 2011; the original story [[User:Enphilistor|Victory Starts Here]] (by [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] ) is now avalaible (in a very crude, text only format) in the Talk Page of it´s creator: [[User_talk:Enphilistor| Victory Starts Here]]
: -- [[User:Argamis|Argamis]] 13:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think I will just have to decide for myself how the experiments turn out and just hope you approve. One of my goals in the stories I plan to write is to explain "scientifically" all the effects you have going on here are consistent with all universal laws. If you are running a program, you can't change the code of the program while it is running. You can change the code but only by stoping the program from running and recompiling it. So anything ROB is doing has to be done inside the simulation following the rules of the simulation (under the premise of the stories I plan to write). It is really not going to be easy for the scientists(i.e. me) to explain the changes to the past records, or why they start off only being change a few years back, then all the way back to the day someone was born, and undoing history such as marriages. And remember, I can't have ROB using "magic", ROB is in the simulation and has to be constrained to its rules. Because of this constraint, ROB needs a "body" someplace and a supply of "energy" from somewhere, to direct and power all these changes. I hope you enjoy my next story, that should be entiteld something like "Victory Continues", where Paul has to cope with being a female pig, and the scientists recieve some confusing results on the origin of the signals they record.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 22:27, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

:Not really. If ROB is outside of the simulation, there's nothing to stop it from pausing the simulation and reworking the fabric of it as necessary. It's like pausing the Sims and placing new walls or whatever. As far as the Sim-people are concerned, those walls might as well as have always been there, even if we (the players) know better. ROB is not inside the simulation, ROB is the player(s) outside the simulation. In no sense does ROB need to obey any rules within the simulation, nor does it need act within the laws of the simulation to change the simulation. By definition anything ROB does is going to be 'magic' because turning people into furries, or editing history, isn't something that's allowed within physical laws. Most of the transformations directly violate the law of the conservation of mass and energy, for example.
:I don't mean to rain on your parade, and I'm clearly not Mr Buck (who might disagree with my explanation), but it seems like you're not quite getting the setting, as I understand it. Hope that helps.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 07:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

::Got it in one, Honeymane. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 18:30, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

JonBuck said, Major changes in underlying physical constants would probably be ill advised, even for ROB. :)

In addition, since ROB hates paradoxes, and will go to such extremes as making sure each child will have both a biological father and a mother and never 2 fathers or 2 mothers, following the rule of conservation in energy and mass is necessary to avoid such paradoxes on an even more fundamental level and in any case easily achieved. If you read my story, that exact experiment has been set up to measure this. Since it is so easy to maintain mass and energy balance, which you will see in the next story, there is no reason to violate this universal law. Imagine the effect on the simulation if you try to break this rule either while it is running or "pausing" it. A calculation is in the process of being made on an object between it and every other object in the universe. In the middle of the calculation a zero is entered (E = mC^2, so if you are going to, C is either zero, which crashes the program and is not what JonBuck said, or as m goes to zero, then c goes to infinity which also changes the velocity of light constant which JobBuck said would not happen). Some calculations have already been performed and other calculations in progress have end up with a divisor of zero. You crash the program when you restart it, as the zero divisor propagates in all the calculations throughout the universe.

In any case, mankind will try and study these effects, and my stories will be mostly concerned with these attempts. However, when I say all laws have to be obeyed, that does not mean all laws that humans know about, it can include new ones. It may be that the results of the experiments will lead them to conclude that something is breaking the laws of the universe because they don't understand them all, but ROB will know what it is doing. I imagine it like this. The main computer can't use its antiviral programming to stop ROB as long as ROB is hiding in the simulation and following the rules in the simulation, but if ROB breaks the rules, and crashes it, he becomes exposed with no place to hide and gets zaped. You will see that in the next story, that ROB is still just as powerful to the same "magic" as it can is now, and still be consistent with all stories that have happened, and the setting JonBuck has set up. JonBuck has not really explained the interaction between the main computer and the virus or any protections or why they are not working. In any case, it doesn't matter what i think, since the stories I plan don't mention this at all, they will be consistent with either ROB being inside or outside the simulation, only what the beings in the simulation measure is in the stories. Just trust me, the story will be interesting and fun, and if JonBuck says no to some result after he reads it, I will change it. Fair?
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 01:54, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I haven't had time to read your story yet. Frankly, reading your comments here I'm getting a little antsy over what exactly the impact it would have on the overall setting. I think you're over-analyzing the setting, frankly. You're asking questions about it that I really can't answer.
:Also, use colons in front of your paragraphs to make them indent and create a "nested" topic. And put a blank line between paragraphs. Thanks.
: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:21, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

::For JonBuck I had intentionally not been using indents so that my comments would be totally left justified and everyone the replies for everyone else indented, make it easier in my view to keep things organized. But if you prefer indents, I am easy.
::I had assumed that you had already read the story. It would be good for me to get some feedback on that since none of the things we discuss here are really in it, but may impact it.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 02:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think you're confusing the 'players' here. First, there's the computer that all the "real" characters (ie the characters in the story) exist in. ROB 1 is likely someone running the computer, perhaps for anthropological reason, perhaps because they're bored. ROB 2 is unrelated to ROB 1, but for one reason or another, has managed to add a virus program to ROB 1's simulation, causing problems. There are at least 2 viruses that JonBuck has discussed; one that changes gender, and one that changes people into furries, we could, however, imagine that there may have been other viruses in the past, that eventually ROB 1 removed. For example, Atlantis might have been real, and so might have the Greek/etc gods. Atlantians were gifted technology beyond what they should have, and ROB 1 deleted the island to save the program, ROB might have also deleted the Gods, for whatever reason, etc. I'm just speculating here. Now, either ROB can't remove the virus like it did the other problems, or it realized that altering reality was screwing with the program's purpose (such as anthropological study) So rather than delete the TG or TF viruses, ROB 1 created a program to try and mitigate the virus's effects. This program is what causes the history editing (etc).
:Both these viruses exist within the programing of the Computer, but not on a level that would appear to anyone in the program. It's important to remember that time doesn't necessarily pass like it does within the computer; the virus could get it's work done in a nanosecond. Everything else, the sickness, the slow change, all these might be part of the mitigation program's efforts to prevent anyone from changing in public, and to change so suddenly they lose their minds, nor without warning. But there's no reason to think that this computer virus is operating through something like an actual virus, or that the changes are visible on a cell level before the change occurs, even in those showing the signs of the change.
:But again, this is just me talking, not Buck. But I do strongly suggest you hold off writing too much more until Jon has a chance to review your story, or else you might very well find yourself writing something based on ideas that JonBuck doesn't like/want in his setting.
: -- [[User:Honeymane|Honeymane]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: For Honeymane It is really difficult to hit a moving target. I have not seen in any of the stories and discussions or JonBuck's guidlines about prior activity of ROB. As for ROB1, ROB2, ....ROBN, only one master computer has been mentioned and only one ROB virus. In my understanding, the main comupter has created a SIMULATION. The main computer is infected with a much smaller and more limited "few lines of code" virus, that the beings on one planet in the SIMULATION call the random omnipotent being, but this being is only omnipotent comparted to us, not compared to the main computer. I do not see ROB having the same power to shut down the simulation, pause it, change the rules in it or perform any of the jobs the main computer does.
:: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:I see ROB as much more limited. It needs to avoid detection of the antiviral programs, it can't attract their attention, it needs to work by stealth, it is a virus after all, it can't do things that say, "here I am!". And this all follows from things JonBuck has indicated. If he wants to say ROB = main computer in all powers, then well, fine, but he has not done so. He has not defined the motives of ROB or the main computer. when asked, he has said, " I dunno". Given that void, since I need to write in that setting, I find myself creating possible motives for them in my mind.
:It makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, but it helps me limiting ROB to viral powers and behaviors, not mainfraim abilities. A virus has 2 main goals, to keep itself alive and to reproduce itself. ROB may or may not have the second goal, but it will have the first. While doing this in any enviornment, it may cause side effects. Imagine ROB as a biological virus, and a living cell as the simulation that is growing inside a body that is the mainframe. At one time ROB was outside the cell, in the body (mainframe) where lots of antibodies (antiviral programs) were hunting for it. By entering the cell, it is now hidden from the body's defenses. However, if the cell gets sick or dies(ROB crashes the cell simulation) before ROB has either left the cell or reached a state of reproduction where that is desireable, then the body will just devower the cell and grow a new one. So in my scenario, perhaps ROB realized that the purpose of the simulation was about to be achieved, and since ROB is not ready to reproduce, it is messing with the simulation, hyjacking it as a virus hyjacks the DNA of a Cell, to keep the simulation alive longer than it would otherwise, so that it won't reach the conditions for termination, until it can make other copies of itself to infect other simulations. Who knows, maybe with enough copies of itself it can take over the mainfraim. Alternatively, its work at transforming mankind may be the way it is going about reproducing. Alternatively, ROB might have realized the simulation was about to produce a failed reslut which would have terminated the simulation and it is acting to keep itself alive by preventing failure conditions.
:In any case it makes no difference to the stories I plan to write, JonBuck had declined to actually be clear on this, and it really does not matter. The beings in the simulations don't know this, and it is difficult to think of any way they could ever find out. Well actually I could, because I am like that. One way would be if ROB tells them, and since Jonbuck said no comunication with ROB, that won't happen. Another if the mainfram sends a COR (Correcting Omnipotent Being) into the simulation (...and God sent his only begotten son...that type of idea) and told people.
:The second story is half done, and I plan to continue writing it since I have it all layed out in my mind. Hopefully Jonbuck will read the first story and give some feedback before I finish, but I believe he will approve of both stories in any case. And if not, I will change them.
: -- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]] 04:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

:: *puts on peacemaker and teacher hats*
:: From what I can tell you're looking for an explicit statement of something that has been implicit in the setting design since the start...
:: Where the Solar System once sat is now a cloud of what you could call "Computronium". Inside this computer are many, many simulations. Whether these simulations are the creation of a separate physical being or the uploaded minds of people is a moot point - we'll never see the "real world". (btw, ROB could actually be an AI that was once a person...)
:: The stories all take place inside one of these simulations that has picked up a couple of viruses somewhere. One of them has been around since at least the late 70's (IIRC, this is mentioned in one of Jon's stories) and the other didn't appear until 1987. The one that showed up in 1987 - the "furry virus" - is newer and initially ROB had tried to contain it using the "Perception Filter". When it somewhat "merged" with the TG virus the simulation got a lot more unstable and ROB had to start including things in its "containment" to help combat that instability. That is the "history revision" stuff. It also is the cause of the changes to married couples with children - because it was seeing potential causes of instability (no more mother/father) and fixing it as it could.
:: There is no "ROB" actually in the simulation - think about the game "The SIMS"... In that game you are the ROB - the creator and maintainer of the simulation. And you can "Pause" the simulation, make changes and restart it. In this case at least the entirety of the solar system is part of the simulation and every time ROB has to make a change it "pauses" the simulation, makes the changes and then hits the "normal speed" button. Now... there might be some people in the world that are actually from outside the sim, but they'd never make themselves known - and they could, probably, act like the ROB and remove any evidence of themselves (outside of memories) from the sim.
:: -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 04:21, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

::: I think a lot of the problems here is a misunderstanding of the source material I'm drawing inspiration for this setting from. Honeymane and ShadowWolf have both described things well. (Though I'm going to bump the TG virus back a few more centuries). A few points.
:::: * ROB exists outside the simulation. Other ROBs are not important. The Virus is not a ROB. However, ROB isn't really a physical being either, as SW describes.
:::: * The Virus originates outside the simulation. Who and what originally made it is a moot point.
:::: * The intent of said "virus" (the term only fits loosely) is to throw a monkeywrench into ROB's simulation of our universe. The reason why it hasn't been contained is that it was created by a slightly more advanced post-Singularity Mind than ROB. Since ROB can't contain it, ROB can only mitigate.
:::: * Essentially, the two virii are intended to cause social chaos via random transformations. It doesn't exist to propagate itself to other simulations. In the first case, a "quarantine" of sorts was created via modifying the present records of those TGed to reflect their new gender. If it was true history editing neither the person transformed nor the people who knew them would remember what they'd been. What ROB is changing are just the present physical objects.
:::Honestly, go read Part 2 of Accelerando. It was originally started as short stories, so you can pick it up there. That's where a lot of the concepts for Paradise started.
::: -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 05:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, it seems terminology is messing me up. I was under the apparently mistaken belief that ROB was the virus, and the Mainfraim running the simulation(s). I believed this because the virus was random and chainging someone to a furry is sort of mildy omnipotent. Yes, I fully agree that if ROB = Mainfraim(or AI who might have once been human) then ROB must definatly outside the simulation. My comments were consering only the virus(es) that are causing the transgender/furry transformations.
Let me call the form that can do either one or the other or both, the Random Omnipotent Virus, ROV for short so there will be no misunderstandings. I can see ROB stoping the simulation and making corections, eliminating divisions by zero and all that. However, ROV should not have those abilities, being just a lowly virus, compared to ROB. The stories I wish to write constrain ROV to using the same old laws that existed in 1987, and prior to that if there was the TG virus. The universe we live in now was supposed to be identical to that one until 1987, I would like that ROV should be handicaped a little by the rules ROB created for the simulation. A simulation is to test SOMETHING, and if you start changing the rules (ie laws of nature) your results are just not going to simulate the conditions you wanted to in the real world, where you don't have the power to change the laws of nature.
The experiments the humans are setting up in my first story will indicate only the effects being caused by ROV. If ROV is outside or inside the simulation does not really matter, but if ROV can behave just like ROB, then that study is just not going to produce anything interesting either scientifically, or plot wise. Such violations of the laws of nature might just scream at them "There really must be a god involved." and we never want them to know or suspect ROB or the true nature of ROV. To have a scientific study, I would like ROV to follow the laws of the universe, for any of the reasons described here and in prior posts. I will work out some reasons that make sense to the humans for all things happening regarding the transformations, to keep them studying and not just throw up their hands in frustration, if that is ok.
-- [[User:Enphilistor|Enphilistor]]

== Count of Changed in 1997 ==

Hello! I'm new here, but I really like this setting and read probably most of the stories. I even made my own table in Excel to draw the changing numbers as a graphic (Also for my hometown to get a grip on the numbers). And there I noticed something:

Maybe I just missed a story or paragraph where it is explained, but shouldn't there be 1024 Changed in 1997 instead of 1028? Where do the additional 4 Furries come from? I know this is just minor, but the error is kept through the following years till the end and all the numbers are wrong (It doesn't however change the fact that 2020 is the last year).

It's not so important, but it's been bugging me since I noticed it. -- [[User:TigeR|TigeR]] 15:53, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

:Check out the [[Paradise (Setting)]] page. It has all the numbers. -- [[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 02:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

:: Jon, you do have a +4 in 1997 over a strict doubling. This is what he was pointing out and asking questions about. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: And fixed! -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:37, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

::: This error went a heck of a lot deeper and its possible that the skew-factor introduced in 1997 effected the percentages as time went into the future - however... I fixed this by hand and then verified the figures against a program that output every power of two from zero to the 33rd. As it stands this table now has correct figures for the furry population and one can only assume that the historical figures for population are correct and the projection fits the curve correctly. -- [[User:ShadowWolf|ShadowWolf]] 02:55, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Paradise:The Soundtrack ==

Not sure about anyone else, but I find music to be a major inspiration.. Well of course it is... the song "Strangers by Yoko Kanno" got this series off the ground did it not?

So I decided to put together a soundtrack, it's not available for download because I own none of these songs... But if you happen to have them, you can arrange them in your iPod Playlist, if you want.. I mean I'm not forcing ya, it's just a possibility.

Okay

Strangers - Yoko Kanno (Duh)

Not Quite Paradise - Bliss 66 (This song pretty much hits the entire series on the head) (It's from the ending of Titan A.E., damn good movie, do see it sometime)

Animal I Have Become - Three Days Grace

Iris - Goo Goo Dolls

Impression That I Get - Mighty Bosstones

Dream Of An Asbolution - Lee Brotherton

Speak With Your Heart - Cash Cash

Beautiful - Eminem

Man I Feel Like A Woman - Shania Twain

What Are You Inside? - Furries In A Blender (Joke Entry)

Everybody Wants To Rule The World - Tears For Fears

The Pretender - Foo Fighters

and finally

Waiting On The World To Change - John Mayer

I think I forgot some, but yeah, definitely these. - Hawl (1/10/11, 1:55 PM)

Paradise (Setting)

2011-01-13T08:45:10Z

Argamis: Added in 2004: "Victory Starts Here" by Enphilistor [recovered from google cache]

{{Universe|Paradise}}

{{byline|author=Jon Buck
|user=JonBuck}}

A direct link '''[[User:JonBuck/A Kind of Paradise|To the original story.]]'''

=={{separator|f|Stories in Chronological Order}}==

Authors may add links to their stories as they happen in chronological order in story time. For a complete listing of all Paradise stories, since this list may be updated sporadically, see [[:Category:Paradise|the Paradise Category]].

'''2000'''
*[[User:Erastus/On the Outside Looking|On the Outside, Looking...]] ''(Through 2010) ([[User:Erastus|Erastus]])''

'''2001'''
*[[Ranty Raccoon]] ''(Digitalpotato)''

'''2002'''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Made Alone|Made Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Bathing Alone|Bathing Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Not Quite Alone|Not Quite Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Suspected Alone|Suspected Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Revealing Alone|Revealing Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''

'''2003'''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Convention Building|Convention Building]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Model Building | Model Building]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Change Building | Change Building]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Confession Building | Confession Building]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''

'''2004'''
*[[User_talk:Enphilistor| Victory Starts Here]] [recovered from google cache] ''(Enphilistor)''

'''2005'''
*[[User:Jetfire/Holes in the Veil| Holes in the Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Robotech_Master/Capsule_Review:_Changed:_The_Unveiling|RPG.net Capsule Review: Changed: The Unveiling]] ''([[User:Robotech_Master|Robotech_Master]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Lifting The Veil| Lifting The Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Poking the Veil| Poking the Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Stages|Stages]] ''(Through October 2006) ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''

'''2006'''
*[[User:Jetfire/Film at 2011| Film at 2011]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/GM'O'Fur| GM'O'Fur]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Twisting the Veil| Twisting the Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Silver Fox Tracks|Silver Fox Tracks]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Generations| Generations]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/A Rolling Stone Gathers No Veil|A Rolling Stone Gathers No Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Auld Lang Syne|Auld Lang Syne]] (Extends into 2007) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Reverberations|Reverberations]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Bare Hands|Bare Hands]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''

'''2007'''
*[[User:Eirik/Treatment|Treatment]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/It Bears Investigation|It Bears Investigation]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Gaming Furs|Gaming Furs]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:JonBuck/A Kind of Paradise|A Kind of Paradise]] ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Radio No Veil|Radio No Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Six Furries and a Wedding|Six Furries and a Wedding]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:JonBuck/Tall Tales|Tall Tales]] ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''
*[[User:Nikon/Changing Perspectives|Changing Perspectives]] ''([[User:Nikon|Nikon]])''
*[[User:Nikon/Back to Reality|Back to Reality]] ''([[User:Nikon|Nikon]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Clearing the Air|Clearing the Air]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Waters_So_Cold_and_Deep|Waters So Cold and Deep]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Doing Hard Time|Doing Hard Time]] (Extends into 2008) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[Monkey Business]]
*[[User:Nikon/Coming Home|Coming Home]] (guess based on posting date) ''([[User:Nikon|Nikon]])''

'''2008'''
*[[User:Jetfire/Live_At_Five|Live At Five]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Rising Waters|Rising Waters]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Gulf_Ice|Gulf Ice]] (Prelude in 2001) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/The_Bear_Facts|The Bear Facts]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Election Fever|Election Fever]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Centers of Power|Centers of Power]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''
*[[User:JonBuck/Open Secrets|Open Secrets]] ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''
*[[User:WolfyDrake95/New_World|New World]] ''([[User:WolfyDrake95|WolfyDrake95]])''
*[[User:WolfyDrake95/To_a_Friend|To a Friend]] ''([[User:WolfyDrake95|WolfyDrake95]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Special Care|Special Care]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/NorBAC|NorBAC]] (begins in June; jumps to September) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Judge_Judy:_Deagle_vs_Anderson|Judge Judy: Deagle vs Anderson]] (2008 or 2009) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''

'''2009'''
*[[User:JonBuck/After Hours|After Hours]] ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''

'''2010'''
*[[User:JonBuck/Changing America|Changing America]] (work in progress) ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''
*[[User:Robotech_Master/See Change: March 20, 2010|See Change: March 20, 2010]] ''([[User:Robotech_Master|Robotech_Master]])''
*[[User:Robotech_Master/Tiffnapped|Tiffnapped]] ''([[User:Robotech_Master|Robotech_Master]])''
*[[User:Robotech_Master/Holding Helena|Holding Helena]] ''([[User:Robotech_Master|Robotech_Master]])''

'''Alternate Future'''
*[[Cascade Failure]]

=={{separator|f|Basics}}==
*The setting is basically indistinguishable from the Real World up until 1987, the year when people first begin to spontaneously transform into furries.
*Exactly one person transformed in Year One ''(i.e.,'' 1987), and the number of furries doubles in late August each year. The initial story in this setting, [[User:JonBuck/A Kind of Paradise|A Kind of Paradise]], is set in Year 21 ''(i.e.,'' 2007), when there are just over one million furries. The next year (2008) will add a million, for a total of two megafurries, and so forth.
*The first furry in 1987 was a vixen, with a tod the next year. Some stereotypes do have a basis in "reality". :)
**The entire world will be furry in 2020.
*Every year it's possible that an already-changed person could change ''again''. With increasing rarity, all less than one percent:
**A species change. ("What the..? I'm a ''wolf'' now? What am I supposed to do with all these hoof picks?")
**A gender change. ("Where do men put this ''thing'' between our legs when we sit down?")
**A combination of both. ("Don't ''even'' call me a bitch! Just show me how to put on this stupid bra!")
**The next year there is about a 25% chance that the person will revert to their original gender/first species. If that doesn't happen, it's fixed. If they change back... there's another 25% chance that you'll bounce back ''again'' the next year. So there's some potential for characters who spend years alternating between species/gender.
*Also distinctive from Winds of Change: ''No superpowers''. Just whatever natural abilities (things like augmented senses, physical strength, ''etc)'' come from being half animal.
*'''The Role Reversal Paradox.'''
**''IF'' the couple has children, pre- or post-Change, no matter what age...
**''IF'' one of the couple has been transgendered...
**''THEN'' it is essentially a sure thing that the partner will TG as well.
**The reason for this is simple. ROB hates paradoxes. If they have children, there ''must'' be a father and a mother. And it ''must'' be the same two people. It doesn't matter if that person divorced and remarried someone else. Or if they're unmarried. One father, one mother. Otherwise, the kids will logically not have come into existence.
**Conversely, if they are married/going out/living together/etc., the same TG 1% dice roll applies to them as everyone else.

'''Important.''' Please ''do not'' write stories that are father ahead in the timeline than those I have written.''

'''Note on Politics'''. As a request, I ask authors not to use major political figures from Real Life. I don't want any political bashing going on here. Characters like Congressman Sandrick are perfectly fine, so feel free to create fictional members of Congress or Members of Parliament. Remember this world is different from ours from 1987 onwards. There are still details I haven't filled in between then and now, and the Butterfly Effect means that there will be some small, some major differences.

{{add|'''Winners of the 2008 Election'''}}
*President: Karen Hutchinson. (Reverse Pres. Obama and his wife, basically)
*VP: Steven Angstrom

===The Transgendered===
Just a few details.
#This is an earlier, generally harmless virus that got into the simulation. ROB dealt with it by the "history editing" as described in the stories.
#It's been around a LOT longer than the Furry Virus.
#Even though it's probably been around for thousands of years, there are far fewer victims than the Furry Virus as of 2009. I imagine the furry virus co-opted this one for the TGed furs.
#As in real life, there are many more male to female victims than the other way around.
#Transgendered victims have little or no support system like furries do. They're generally isolated. And before 2009 couldn't see through the RDF.

===Physiology===

*Furries can still interbreed with one another as if they were all still human. Children get a 50/50 chance of which of the parents' species they follow.
*Conversely, humans '''cannot''' interbreed with furries, probably due to the RDF.
*There are some physical variations, but not the wide "Degrees" that Winds of Change has. The most obvious differences are hair, feet, and hands. Otherwise, most everyone is about as morphic as seen in common furry art.
**Females most often have hair the same color and similar texture as their fur. Though you do still get the occasional blond.
**Males retain their hair less frequently.
*'''Size Limitations.''' On the suggestion from the Talk page. I'm not going to limit species. However, I will have a minimum/maximum size range:
**7 feet (or 2.1m), max. About 600 lb (272 kg), max.
**4 feet (1.2m). I'll leave the small side open.
*Species are native to a particular continent. So most people in North America will end up whitetail deer, elk, bears, foxes, wolves, etc. Recent immigrants will more likely end up native species to wherever they came from.
**However, this means that someone from Seattle could ''still'' end up a leopard, or a llama, or what-have-you from other continents. I just want to make that clear.
**No mythicals like dragons, griffins, satyrs, vampires, mages, what-have-you. Just furries.
**No birds, reptiles, or other non-mammals.
*'''No Extinct Species.''' No dinosaurs. Sadly, I can't include them. There are so many species that are just too big.
*'''Note on Transsexuals'''. This setting is intended as a mix of wish fulfillment and darker, more realistic consequences. That said, all TS folks get their bodies "corrected". Keep in mind that this won't necessarily make life easier for said character. Conflict generates Plot. And since most of the folks who get their gender switched ''won't'' be TS, there's still plenty of that around.
*Results of major surgeries are translated. Artificial hips, knees and pacemakers still work as needed. Transplant patients will not reject their organs. However, lost limbs will not regenerate and major chronic diseases will not be cured, but may go into a lengthy remission.
*One of the major benefits is a major improvement in health and fitness. ROB can't stop the change, but at least he can give the victims a sort of consolation prize. You may not end up in perfect shape, but it'll be close. A flood of positive endorphins to make the victim feel good about their new bodies doesn't hurt, either (optional). Now, what happens to that state of fitness ''after'' is entirely up to your characters.

===Psychology===
*At this point I'm inclined to have some mitigating effects on the "victims". It's still going to be very, very hard to deal with. This is a major life disruption. And there are no doubt a lot of secluded furs. But suicides aren't as common as you'd think.
*The transgendered furs do have an even rougher time. The double-whammy of species and gender would likely make serious post-change Issues a reality.
**Transgendered furs typically refer to themselves by their initials: BD, DL, etc..
**Some might end up going a little crazy and think they had ''always been'' their new gender, especially after the effects of Tall Tales Con.
*The more adjusted furs have figured out how to find these troubled souls and bring them back into the real world.

=={{separator|f|The Reality Distortion Field (Veil)}}==
*Humans can't see furries for what they are. They still see whatever the person looked like before, even if that person was the opposite gender.
*Some things aren't filtered correctly. Consequently...
**If a TGed man gets pregnant, the filter will change that person's ghost image to female. But she will still appear human to other humans.
**Things like hoof/paw prints, shed fur, shed antlers, clawmarks, animal odors, etc., are not filtered. So if a cougar morph gets in a fight with a normal human and lashes out with his claws, he could cause a hell of a lot of damage.
**Some humans think that there is something up (referred to as "Known" or "Friends"). And some have figured out that the friends who claim to be furry actually ''are'' what they claim to be.
*The RDF sometimes breaks down a little during large gatherings of furries (like at conventions). "Hey, that's the best costume I've ever seen! Is that a prosthetic muzzle?" Memories afterwards will probably remember some really good costumes, and photos will be perceived as such.
**In more extreme cases it will break down entirely. But it would take repeated exposures, or perhaps having a number of furry friends while remaining humans oneself. Like in [[User:Nikon/Changing_Perspectives|Changing Perspectives]].
**Transgendered furs may be perceived by humans as their new gender out of the corner of their eye. And there are likely other circumstances where the human RDF image will realign also. Specific circumstances (such as pregnancy) will be the decisive factor.
**As of 2007, TGed TallTales Con attendees have had a major RDF alteration. Everyone except family, friends, or people who have seen them often enough to really know, will perceive them as their new physical sex. Which is essentially the vast majority of people. This effect will spread to all the other TGed until 2008, when it becomes the norm.
**'''As of 2009''', all human ghosts now reflect their real gender, no matter who is looking.
*Do animals perceive the RDF? Probably not. But the odor of a fur is neither quite human or animal. There are still some common human pheromones, for example. Which is what makes romance between wolf and deer possible. This is a ''good'' thing, since it means that a doe-woman in heat won't be chased down by a normal buck.
*It may start to break down as there grow to be millions of furries in the world (see below).
*Another storytelling idea: The RDF is an ''antiviral measure'' (see The Cause below). When the RDF breaks down, people ''may'' change out-of-phase, since they no longer have that protection. This will make it harder to track down people who change and get them the help they need. This is ''not'' a hard-and-fast rule, but the storytelling device is available. But I '''don't''' want it to become commonplace.

==={{separator|f|Holes in the Veil}}===

As seen in [[User:JonBuck/After Hours|After Hours]], on August 29, 2009 the Veil started coming down.

*First one appeared in Hyannis, MA on August 29. It quickly expanded to (size to be determined) and outed every furry in town. Other holes appeared in and around Chicago. Without exception they appear first where there's been a recent or frequent concentration of furs.
*Holes start small, but will grow depending on how weak the RDF is in the area.
*As the RDF decays, furs will feel like they're wrapped in loose plastic. And there's something of a light show. The air shimmers. The air feels cleaner, fresher.
**The RDF is an extra "rendering layer" of sorts. Since until now all furs had lived with it, they only really notice it was there now that it's been taken away. Leaving a Hole a fur will feel like he or she is wearing clothing a size too small or too large, depending on how much they deviate from the human norm. A really sensitive fur might feel suffocated, as if they were wrapped in plastics. They'll feel irritable and given the right situation, may tear ''new'' Holes (which could make good story fodder).
*They're like soap bubbles in that if they encounter other holes, they'll grow even larger. All of them are still slowly expanding, and may jump to larger sizes at unpredictable intervals.
*ROB will start a controlled shutdown of the RDF over the course of the year. Its replacement will be a Weirdness Censor.
**The world is going furry crazy. But not ''crazy crazy''. Using a cooking analogy, it's like a foamed egg whites getting folded into a souffle or other dish that needs careful mixing, or the recipe falls apart.

*Furs feel much more comfortable with themselves inside the holes. To furs, the RDF feels like restrictive clothing. Doubly so for the TGed furs. Even normal humans feel better. Caveats:
**Normal humans who spend more and more time inside one of these holes run increasing risk of becoming furry at any time of the year ahead.
**Once the RDF is down completely in late 2010, the above may apply to everyone. The numbers are still doubling as below, but the August 17 restriction no longer applies. And as above, a TG can happen before a TF.
**Furries cease being humans in funny costumes. Their animal natures will more easily bob to the surface. This is partly for psychological reasons (don't have to hide any more). Partly due to the pressure from the RDF being gone.

=={{separator|f|The Numbers}}==

Total sequence as follows (all figures approximate):
Year AD Total Furries Total Populace Furries, as %age of total populace
1 1987 1 5,184,212,887 0.000 000 02%
2 1988 2 5,247,179,035 0.000 000 04%
3 1989 4 5,310,909,955 0.000 000 05%
4 1990 8 5,375,414,934 0.000 000 15%
5 1991 16 5,440,703,374 0.000 000 3%
6 1992 32 5,506,784,792 0.000 000 6%
7 1993 64 5,573,668,818 0.000 001 1%
8 1994 128 5,641,365,200 0.000 002%
9 1995 256 5,709,883,806 0.000 004%
10 1996 512 5,779,234,621 0.000 009%
11 1997 1,024 5,849,427,754 0.000 018%
12 1998 2,048 5,920,473,436 0.000 035%
13 1999 4,096 5,992,382,020 0.000 07%
14 2000 8,192 6,065,163,988 0.000 14%
15 2001 16,384 6,138,829,947 0.000 3%
16 2002 32,768 6,213,390,635 0.000 5%
17 2003 65,536 6,288,856,918 0.001%
18 2004 131,072 6,365,239,795 0.002%
19 2005 262,144 6,442,550,400 0.004%
20 2006 524,288 6,520,800,000 0.008%
21 2007 1,048,576 6,600,000,000 0.016%
22 2008 2,097,152 6,680,161,943 0.031%
23 2009 4,194,304 6,761,297,514 0.062%
24 2010 8,388,608 6,843,418,536 0.123%
25 2011 16,777,216 6,926,536,980 0.24%
26 2012 33,554,432 7,010,664,959 0.48%
27 2013 67,108,864 7,095,814,736 0.95%
28 2014 134,217,728 7,181,998,721 1.87%
29 2015 268,435,456 7,269,229,474 3.69%
30 2016 536,870,912 7,357,519,711 7.30%
31 2017 1,073,741,824 7,446,882,298 14.42%
32 2018 2,147,483,648 7,537,330,262 28.49%
33 2019 4,294,967,296 7,628,876,783 56.30%
34 2020 8,589,934,592 7,721,535,206 >100%

At this point stories should take place in '''2001 at the earliest''', up to the current story-time year. The community gets really, really small before then. If you have a story that takes place in this era, submit it to me first. Thank you.

Things should start to get really interesting around 2010. There's enough furs in the world then that niche markets would start to open up. More clothing and products specifically designed for furries start popping up. Also, it will become harder and harder to induct new furs into the group in a healthy manner. Society may start to break down in places.

It will take a concerted effort by those previously changed to keep everything under control...

'''Distribution.''' It's not random, or even. It's an expanding fractal centered on the Chicago area. As far as visualization, I'll leave that vague. But the majority of the first furs were in North America.

From the way these stories are playing out, I'd say that events are unfolding like this:

*'''1987-2002''': "Alone" period. Isolation between furries, with only a few very small groups, most of them thinking they're all alone. Best exemplified by [[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat's]] stories. Nobody knows what's going on.
*'''2002-2008''': Forming Communities. There's now enough furs to start encountering each other regularly. Conventions start up. Anthro imagery (in movies, TV shows, and other media) start to show up more frequently. Information getting put together indicates an ominous trend. The whole world will eventually go furry.
*'''2008-?''': Events unfolding in [[User:JonBuck/Open Secrets|Open Secrets]] will nail down this theme. {{add|From here for the next few years, a third to nearly a half of the new Changed will be Known/Friends or family members. People who can see through the Veil easily.}}

===Important Events===
This section will be for events of note that will be important to the overall storytelling. Authors feel free to note important events in your works that could impact the setting as a whole here.

'''2007'''
*First instances of total, permanent [[User:Nikon/Changing Perspectives|RDF breakdown]]. Incidents isolated.
*First appearance of anthro dolphins. The RDF with these people is a very strained affair. The longer they stay around humans, the more likely it'll fail. Perhaps it realigns the image as a normal dolphin in the water, and a human on land.
*'''Added 2/24.''' Transgendered furs at [[User:JonBuck/Tall Tales|Tall Tales Con]] now appear as their new physical gender to anyone but close friends and family. The RDF is even actively changing identification. Active records like passports and driver's licenses, medical records are all altered to reflect this. Even a pre-Change photo ID will show the new human face, which will be a shock to the TGed fur. This effect is slowly spreading to other TGed furs, see [[User:Jetfire/Doing Hard Time|Doing Hard Time]].
*A number of pressing environmental problems relax slightly. While these solutions will solve some problems, they will cause others, especially in the short term.
**The recovery of the major world fisheries detected in the mid-90s continues apace.
**Major discoveries in energy include massive oilfields in various stable First World nations: US, Canada, UK, Norway, etc..
**Scientists observe CO2 levels stabilizing for currently unknown reasons.
**Third World experiences boosts in food production from improved farming practices and soil conditions.
**New renewable energy discoveries, new batteries, a bacterial process for making gasoline and diesel from municipal wastewater.
*With all these new furs, there are now enough singles to start pairing up. The lingering worries about fertility and children will be answered next year...

'''2008'''
*Fallout from Tall Tales Con continues. All newbie and furry gatherings the next year will be much, much smaller, informal.
*Although there were a few before this year, this is the first year a large number of furry babies will be born.
*A Changed rabbit appears as ''Playboy'''s September Playmate of the Month (though only other Changed/Changed-sensitive know it until later).

'''2009'''
*This Change Day will be different from the others. Instead of all happening in the same moment, the new furs will happen in fits and starts throughout the day. Some might change in the early morning, others late that night. The trend will continue over the next few years.
**Another wrinkle. If there's a TG, they don't have to happen at the same time. So some poor fellow who becomes a clouded leopard in the morning (or a woman) will get hit again sometime later.
* The shoe field died in 2008. Now the Veil no longer hides clothing modifications. For some furs this might be a Veil-breaker. We will see.
*Since [[User:JonBuck/Open Secrets|Open Secrets]], the secret is functionally out, though a sort of [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WeirdnessCensor Weirdness Censor] is in place, possibly due to widespread denial. Furry imagery started to dominate the media after the first of the year, especially on medical dramas and "what if" shows on National Geographic, Discovery Channel, even the Food Network. Mostly done with CGI, a few shows used furry actors and cameras able to see through the Veil. More to be revealed in [[User:JonBuck/After Hours|After Hours]].
* '''The Shutdown''', August 17-25. With a major Sleeping Sickness outbreak, much of the world economy shut down for a little over a week, with only essential services (energy, food transport, etc.) kept running. Similar to what Mexico did during the Swine Flu outbreak. Later they are accused of overreacting, as Sleeping Sickness seems to leave a minuscule number of deaths, and the victims healthier than before they contracted it.

'''2010'''
*Tiffany Tanner appears as the first Changed to play a Changed in a recurring role on daytime television. With the aid of a special lens, Tiffany's character "Felice Hunter" on ''One Life to Live'' dramatizes the plight of Changed forced to keep secrets from family and friends. Her stint on the show is briefly interrupted when she is kidnapped for several weeks, after which she again makes headlines as one of "Melton's Eleven," eleven furres who had been kidnapped for the private amusement of a twisted, reclusive millionaire (who vanished shortly before they escaped).

=={{separator|f|The Cause}}==

So, why is this happening? What's causing it? A nanotech virus? Microscopic magic pixies? The return of magic? The wrath of God? What?

The answer is contained in '''[[User:JonBuck/Tall Tales|Tall Tales]]'''.

However, the idea is this. Ever since I read [http://www.accelerando.org/ ''Accelerando''] By Charles Stross, I've been enamored with the idea of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity technological Singularity]. So I've been looking for a way to use it in my fiction at one point. This setting provides the answer to that desire. ''Accelerando'' is available for free on the web.

Our universe--or perhaps just our planet, I haven't decided yet--and all the people in it, are basically a simulation. This doesn't make the characters in these stories any less real than you our I. Mathematics forms the basis of the universe, after all. The people are as sentient as you or I. This makes the setting rather Matrix-like, without the human bodies being used as "batteries". We're all more like Agent Smith.

I refer to this as a "furry virus". It comes from outside the post-Singularity brain, and is slightly more advanced than "ours". What's happening is this bit of malicious code (sentient, no less, but on a level far beyond our ability to comprehend it) is messing up the simulated world we reside in. Why? I dunno. One of those inscrutable things. The RDF is an antiviral measure to contain the damage and allow the society within to adapt. This is also why so far, furry species are limited to mammals. As the numbers of furs increase, that ''will'' change. I have yet to decide just when.

Why not just scrap the whole thing and restore from backup? There are no backups because the simulated people are nevertheless living beings. And they can't just be wiped out.

I hope that explanation isn't too confusing. Please let me know on the '''[[Talk:Paradise (Setting)|Talk Page]]''' if you have questions.

=={{separator|f|Notes on Avatars}}==
So far, the convention for avatars in this setting is for writers to use the first initials of first and last names. However, I wanted to note that my intent here is to give the writer more freedom than to base these characters on yourself. I've changed a lot of details about Jerome, for instance. If you want to put your avatar--if you decide to use one--into this setting, go crazy. Give them a challenge (worse job, emotional trouble). Or make them better off and have the change cause a lot of trouble with work/family/whatever. What I'm trying to say here is, don't feel you have to be directly limited by your present or past self. ''Have fun.''

=={{separator|f|Important Cast}}==

'''[[Paradise Cast List]]'''

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Argamis: <Copypaste from the Google Cache: 21 Nov 2010 13:24:20 GMT> : "shifti.org/wiki/User:Enphilistor/Victory_Starts_Here"

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Works by Enphilistor on Shifti
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This is the first story of Operation Paradise in the Paradise setting.

Victory Starts Here
Author: Enphilistor

Victory Starts Here

August 14, 2004

“All right you turd-balls, rise and shine, lets move it...now!”, the sarge's voice throbbed in my ears. I could hear the footsteps of the other members of my basic training dorm already scampering to the showers as I struggled to open my eyes and drag my unwilling body up. It did not work.

During the few weeks I had been in basic training, I would normally awake with aching muscles and sore feet, but an unwelcome throbbing headache and stuffy nose seem to have been added sometime during the night. I heard the sarge's heals clacking on the floor of the now empty dorm, echoing off the walls and making my headache seem to throb all the worse with each step he took as he got closer. “Private McAllister, did you hear me? I said move it!”.

“Yes Drill Sergeant!”, I yelled as best I could with my apparently horse throat as I summoned all my strength to sit up and look at him, somewhat deliriously with a nauseous feeling growing in the pit of my stomach. It is normally a bad idea to look into the eyes of your DS but I must have done so inadvertently. “Are you eyeballing me Private?”, and he was immediately nose to nose with me giving me the stare, eye to eye. If you are in basic training, you never want that to happen. I think he must have been shocked as I fainted and fell back onto my bunk, but I was not out long. I opened my eyes to see him looking down at me strangely with an uncharacteristic frown of concern. “Are you sick, Private McAllister?”.

“Yes Drill Sergeant!”, I said in a froggy whisper that was supposed to be a yell. All Drill Sergeants have remarkably bad hearing unless you yell at them, but somehow he seemed to have heard me anyways and gave me a nod. Some of the others in my Platoon were hustling back from the showers and had already opened their lockers to get dressed or were making their bunks. I always slept on top of mine so I could save time not having to make it every day, as did a few others.

“Private Johnson, help Private McAllister report to the base hospital, then report back to me.”, sarge said.

“Yes Drill Sergeant!”, Johnson yelled. He got dressed first and I tried to stand but felt dizzy and sat back down on the bunk. “Do you think you can walk to the jeep if I get you dressed or should I bring you a wheel chair?”, he asked. I told him confidently that I would be able to walk, but I was really not all that sure. He helped me to my locker, and after I had opened the combination lock he helped me get dressed. I managed to get to the jeep without mishap, but the hospital at Fort Jackson was not that close to our barracks and it took us a full 10 minutes to drive there.

After he helped me fill out the paperwork and get admitted, Johnson left and the nurse had me sit in a wheel chair which was a relief. She wheeled me to an examination room, checked my weight and blood pressure, which she said was low, took my temperature which was 104 F, and told me the doctor would be in shortly. I looked at my watch and it was nearly 0500 hours, my platoon would already have fallen in and started their day of training exersizes.

Normally, there is normally a long wait for everything in the Army, and this was no different, the Doctor came in after about 35 minutes and was holding a clipboard that seemed to have a lot of papers attached to it. He introduced himself and said, “What seems to be the trouble, Private?” he said.

So I explained everything to him, and how I felt. His face showed indecision and I had really expected him to tell me he was going to order some blood work, but instead he looked at the papers on his clipboard and said, “I will have the nurse bring you some pills to help with your headache, fever and upset stomach. She will then bring you to see Major Stanton. Good luck Private.” He turned and left the examination room before I could even ask any questions which I felt bubbling into my mind. Our DS had done his best to try and wipe the word “why?” from our vocabulary, but since I was still new to the Army, I was not sure if this prohibition extended to doctor/patient conversations. I decided it would be best to keep my mouth shut, I would find out what the Major wanted when I talked to him.

After another inordinately long wait, the nurse came in and gave me the prescriptions and gave me a glass of water to help me take the first dose, then she left again. She returned in about 30 minutes just as I had started to doze off and wheeled me down to the lobby where a Corporal introduced herself to me and told me she would being me to the post HQ to talk to the Major. I was starting to feel somewhat better by now as the medicine kicked in, and walked with her to her car, and we drove the half mile or so to HQ. She did not say anything to me in the car, and I held my tongue. I had not even graduated basic training yet and I felt clearly out of my league and did not want to say anything I shouldn't.

We went up the elevator and she escorted me to the Major's office. He told her to wait outside and closed the door as he offered me a chair and sat behind his desk.

“I have just filled out your transfer papers, you are being temporarily reassigned to Scott AFB.”, he began. I was surprised at this and briefly thought of calling my parents and girlfriend to tell them, when he continued. “This is classified and I want you to know that I have no idea what the mission is about.” So much for that idea I thought. He continued, “A week ago, we received orders to be on the look-out for any personnel who suddenly fell ill during the period August 14 through 16, and to transfer them to Scott ASAP. I was also told to inform any such persons that you are not contagious and have nothing fatal to worry about. If necessary, you will be briefed on August 16 at 2200 hours, othewise you will return here. You are asked to refrain from asking any questions from the staff involved as they will be very busy and under instructions not to discuss anything. A helicopter is waiting to fly you to Shaw AFB where you will transfer to a jet that will take you to Scott. We will see that your things are packed and sent to you later. Any questions Private?”.

I had lots of questions, I was totally confused, but I believed him when he said he had no idea what this was about and could not answer any of them, and so I replied, “No Major.” He got up from his desk and guided me to the door and told the Corporal to escort me to the helicopter. Before I left he shook my hand and told me, “Good luck Private!”, and I felt he really meant it and I said, “Thank you Major”.

I was the only passenger in the back of the helicopter. As we took off, I saw in the distance the “Welcome to Fort Jackson! Victory Starts Here!” sign. I wondered when the next time I would be seeing it.

The helicopter flight to Shaw AFB was uneventful, we disembarked and after more waiting a small jet landed and I was escorted on board. To my surprise there were 2 other sick looking passengers covered with blankets, a man and a woman, in the mostly deserted cabin. I introduced myself, and they introduced themselves as Seaman Mike Jenkins from the Navy and Airman First Class Betty Saunders from the Air Force. The jet was already beginning to taxi and I strapped. We all discussed the mystery of our flight briefly and then settled in for our take off. None of us seemed feeling well enough to talk much, and in spite of the medicine, or maybe because of it, I fell asleep soon after take off. I was the first one to awake as we started our decent to land at Scott, and woke the other 2, reminding them to reset their watches for the new time zone.

The sun had set when we disembarked from the jet onto the runway and we got to look around. In the sky I could see 3 or 4 more jets lined up in the sky at various heights for landing. All around us it looked like daytime, lights had been erected to illuminate construction sites where I could see crews were moving and hear the sound of hammering and drilling. I saw a huge metal plate being welded along the hanger next to others that were already in place. What could they possibly be doing reinforcing the hanger like that? In another area it looked like they were building a barrack but as I saw the men walking in and out, it looked like the doors were over 8 foot high 5 feet wide. What the hell? Everywhere we looked there were material being moved and trucks and planes being unloaded.

We arrived at a car and the three of us were driven not to our new barracks as I had thought we would, but to the base hospital where we were admitted. There seemed to be a lot of doctors and nurses on duty for this time of night, all running around. There was a large waiting room, about 40 chairs in which sat about 30 sick looking military personnel from all the different military branches, all different ranks and a wide range of ages, although I did not see anyone that was really old. I went to the bathroom, then got a drink at the water fountain and took my medicine. I had not eaten all day, but did not feel hungry which was surprising.

I stood around listening in on people as they talked, not did not learn anything to help me answer my questions, which we all seemed to have. They were taking one patient about every 5 minutes, so I sat down and prepared for a long night. Another group of people came in and sat down. I dozed for a while, and when I woke every chair was full. I checked my watch and saw I had slept about 90 minutes.

I was happy when they called my name a few minutes later, but not so thrilled when an orderly had me strip naked and took away my clothes and had me put on one of those gowns with no back. I asked about my medicine that was in the pockets and he told me I would not be using any from now on. This did not please me as I thought about spending the next few days feeling like I had felt this morning. They had me lay on a wheeled hospital bed and brought around over the next few hours to various rooms where I would get up and do what they asked and then lay back down on the bed so they could wheel me to the next spot.

First I had my picture taken from all different angles naked. Then in another room they took x-rays of my chest legs, hands and head. In one spot they finally took blood samples I had expected them to take this morning, but they left the needle and tubes attached to my arm, like they were going to come back for seconds, or thirds. In another spot they had me look in a mirror and write down on a form what I looked like to myself in at least 500 words. I felt like I was back in grammar school writing some punishment task our teacher would give us for misbehavior. It took me a while to describe my hair, eyes, ears, nose and mouth, etc., anything I could think of to make 500 words. This was getting stranger and stranger. Then they gave me a hearing and eye test. Finally they took samples of my hair and finger nails which I thought really odd.

Over 4 hours had past and it was the middle of the night when they rolled me into what looked and smelled like a new hospital wing with private bedrooms as far down the hall as I could see. I could hear televisions playing as we passed several rooms and managed a look in one. I could see the room was relatively small, just big enough for a chair and a bed with attached equipment and machines of some type. After about 20 rooms, perhaps a fourth of the way down the hall, I was rolled into what was apparently my room, and I saw that my few things from Fort Jackson had arrived and been placed on the chair. After having me change beds, the orderly pasted some electrodes to my chest and feet, and told me the signal was being fed directly to a computer and not to remove them. A blood pressure sleeve was attached to my arm opposite the needle arm. Then he showed me the controls for adjusting the bed and TV, and gave me a menu and a pencil to check of what I wanted to eat. Surprisingly after 24 hours I was not hungry, but I knew I should eat something so I checked off pancakes and eggs and orange juice on the menu and gave it to him and he left the room. I watched the news for a while, which was the usual stuff about the upcoming elections, the wars in Iran and Afganistan, the weather, etc. The orderly returned with my food, I shut off the TV and surprised myself eating and drinking everything. I was hungrier than I felt. I don't remember the orderly taking the tray away so I must have fallen asleep soon after I finished eating.

August 15, 2004 The orderly woke me about 0900 hours, and asked me how I felt. I answered him and found my voice was still horse, and my headache much more bearable and my stomach felt relatively normal. Perhaps I just had the 24 hour flu and this would be all over soon, I thought to myself. He handed me another menu which I checked off some hamburgers and fries, and then he had me give a urine sample and use a bed pan. I did not even want to think of the tests they would be performing on that.

I did not feel like watching the TV, and since I was a little better, I decided to just think about things. This was not what I had been expecting when I joined the Army. I had graduated high school, I was not stupid but I did not have grades good enough for a scholarship and my mom and dad could not afford to send me to college. My girlfriend for the last 2 years was going to college. It is difficult to explain, I believe in women and men are equal and all that, but I did not like thinking about how she would be smarter than me, make more than me, and that I would always in some way feel inferior, and I wanted to at least be her equal. A military career would provide me with a college degree after I served my time. Sure, I could end up dead someplace over in Afghanistan or Iraq, but really the chances of that were about the same as dying in a car crash here in the US. So about a month after graduation, and with the consent of my parents and encouragement of my girlfriend, I enlisted in the Army. After a few weeks to be accepted and another few weeks of waiting and waiting some more in Reception, I was finally sent to basic training camp just a couple of weeks ago. In spite of all the work and aching muscles and the Drill Sergeants yelling at us, I was actually enjoying it, in an odd sort of way. It was challenging, they made me work harder than I thought I could, and do things I would not have even thought I could. I felt like I was learning a lot, not only about the Army, but about myself.

Then this “flu” came along. I had no better name for it so that is how I was thinking of it in my mind, as the “flu”. The Major had told me that it was not contagious and I had nothing fatal, but why was the military so concerned? It was a mystery but was not in the least bit worried, in fact, I felt comforted by the fact that whatever illness I had, I also had the best health care and doctors working on it in the world.

The orderly interrupted my thoughts as he returned with my hamburgers and fries. He informed me that after I finished he would be rolling me for a repeat of the tests I had taken last night. I nodded to him as I ate my food and he left. A few minutes later, I heard a bed being rolled down the hall and looked to see the occupant was a blond man whose leg was elevated and in a cast. I heard it vanish in the distance, and the sound of an elevator closing. They must be taking him to another floor I thought. After about 5 minutes I heard another bed being rolled down the hall and not having anything better to do except chew on my second hamburger, I looked to see the same man being wheeled in the same direction only he seemed fine with no cast on his leg. “Twins? Hmmmmmm”, I thought. They must have been bringing in new patients all through the night and I had been too busy sleeping to notice. I did a quick calculation, I had slept about 6 hours so that would be at least 120 patients if they maintained an average rate of 5 minutes each. “How big is this place?” I wondered. I looked at my watch and decided to time the next bed. Sure enough, after five minutes and 13 seconds I heard the next bed approaching. I could hear the orderly telling the patient to read the forms carefully and that he would be doing the country a great service if he signed his consent. I did not have to sign any forms when I was coming down the hall, so did that mean the patient was a civilian? I saw the feet first pass my door followed by the hands holding a clipboard with attached papers and then his blond hair. “No way! Triplets?”, I exclaimed mentally. As I ate my fries, I timed the next bed which took 5 minutes 38 seconds and held a brunette woman.

My orderly returned and disconnected me from my machines, I transferred beds, and we basically repeated all the tests from yesterday, only the wait between tests was about 2 times as long so it was nearly 9 hours later when I was brought back, reconnected to my old bed, and given supper. My throat had not cleared and my headache seemed a little worse, and while I still did not feel hungry, I ordered some salmon and potatoes. I noticed beds still being rolled past my door and timed them still at about one every 5 minutes. Perhaps it was not new patients but people such as myself being retested, or perhaps a mix. Anyways I was feeling tired and a little sick and went easily to sleep.

August 16, 2004 My orderly awoke me later than yesterday, it was just 1000 hours, and we did the bed pan thing again. I ordered and ate the same thing and he disconnected me and we transferred beds. We repeated the tests again, but this time there seemed to be many more doctors and nurses fluttering around, while there seemed to be less patients. The tests seemed to take even longer though dragging on and on. On the bright side, after they removed my last blood sample, they removed the needle that had been in my arm. The sun was going down by the time they were all finished with me and I found myself being wheeled to a small bus, not back to my room as I expected.

Others were already on the shuttle bus in those dreadful hospital gowns and we all did our best to hold them around ourselves, especially the women. In a way it was good. Nobody had any rank insignia, we were all equal in not knowing what was going on. The bus drove us to the large hanger that I had seen when I first arrived, only every inch was now covered in plate, every window was covered and the bus drove into the dark entrance, we entered what can only be described as an air-lock. A second set of doors slid behind us and another set opened in front and the bus continued forward.

On the inside of the hanger we all strained to look around and get a good view. Several gurneys overhead contained lots of equipment that could be moved back and forth or raised or lowered. Some of it looked like cameras, others looked like coils that reminded me of ray guns. They were all aimed towards the center of the hangar where there were hundreds of square white pads arranged evenly to fill the space of a complete circle. Each square pad was about a yard on its side and a yard from its neighbor. On each pad was a wire chair connected to equipment that looked the same as that on the hospital bed I had been attached to the past few days.

The bus drove past this and headed to what can best be described as an auditorium set up and the corner of the hanger. There were about 90 chairs in 6 rows facing a stage that contained a podium with a microphone and some speakers, and a large screen, and 4 chairs. On either side of the stage two guard were posted, and I noticed their guns. Some technicians were also milling about testing lighting and equipment. The bus stopped about 50 feet from the chairs next to a buffet table full of assorted food to which we could help ourselves that I had not seen as we drove up. We all got out and were instructed to take a seat wherever we liked. The bus took off one we had all disembarked presumably to bring another group.

I sat in the back row, not wanting to be conspicuous. It was comfortable in the hanger considering the clothing we all wore, and the 15 or so people on the bus with me mostly found spots by themselves lost in their own thoughts, as I did, while we waited for another group to arrive. This group contained the 3 blond men I had seen the man with the cast being helped by the other two and they all sat together. The man with the cast seemed to be the ill one while the other two seemed just fine. I looked at my watch when the next bus arrived and it was 1230 hours, and more patients got off, some looking less ill than others. I did not feel 100% but other than my voice, I could probably pass for healthy if someone looked at me. Some of these people were sweating while others were coughing. There were about 50 of us now, only 8 were women and the rest male, with about half the chairs unfilled, which was fine with me since I got to spread out more. I did not see either of the 2 people who had accompanied me on my flight from Shaw to Scott.

Another bus arrived about 15 minutes later but there were no patients. A man and a woman got off almost together both wearing civilian clothing, and walked together to the stage. As I looked at the man, the woman next to him seemed incredibly short, but when I focused on her I saw they were really almost the same size. Odd I thought maybe this flu is affecting my vision. Next, six military types got off, the ones that usually act as body guards for important people. Two of them carried a large box. They waited until an officer and a man in civilian clothing got off then escorted them both to the stage. I could tell the officer was in the air force by his uniform but I could not see his rank until he got closer, and my jaw dropped as I saw the 5 stars in a circle that was his insignia. Although I was new in the service, I knew 5 star generals in the air force are only appointed during times of war. Once they got on stage, the General took a chair next to the other two civilians while the man he was with approached the microphone and started to speak.

He introduced himself as some Senator but I did not catch his name and I was still recovering from the shock of seeing the General, as I am sure the others were as well. I forced myself to pay attention.

“Thank you all for your patience and being here today. I know you are all anxious to know what is going on, and this briefing will explain that and how your help has and will be vital to your country. But First, let me introduce the people behind me: General of the Air Force Thomas Cranford, Doctor Sydney Walker and his Wife Dr. Martha Walker.”. After each had stood up as their name was mentioned he continued.

“In the past three days, over 4,000 people in the armed services who exhibited flu like symptoms were flown here and tested, and retested, for known viruses using the latest DNA and protein tests available. When it was found that they were suffering from a known virus, they were transferred back to their original posts. Only you 48 people have no known virus to account for your symptoms. In fact, we are unable to find any active viruses at all in your cells. There is a reason for this, but before that is explained, you need to know that both Dr. Martha Walker and I went through the same illness, if you want to call it that, that you are going through now. So I am going to let her explain, since she is the one who has the Doctorate in Psychology.”.

Doctor Martha walked up and grabbed the microphone as the Senator sat in a chair. Walking around the stage casually and looking us all in the eye, she started talking, “So, how do you think I look? I am only 27, do I look good for 27?” and she turned around once or twice. One of the guys in the front yelled, “Yea, your hot!”. This just struck everyone as funny, after the tension we had been feeling while the Senator had been talking, and we all started clapping for the guy who was brave enough to say that as she started laughing too. Even her husband was laughing. We all felt much more relaxed.

She continued when the applause died down. “Well, make up can do wonders now days, but in reality I don't look this good. A year ago, I got sick just like you all did around this same time. I did not think anything of it, flu is natural and I just canceled all my patients and stayed home and let my husband take care of me.”, she said as she smiled at him and blew him a kiss, and he laughed as we all did.

“He was a physics professor at that time at the University of Michigan, and during the summer he had no classes to teach and could stay at home with me for a few days. So I let him pamper me a few days until I woke up about 4 AM on Thursday August 27 feeling not exactly ill, but not normal. So I figured it was time for him to get up and let him do some pampering so I gave him little jab in the ribs and said, 'Honey, I am not feeling normal.' So he rolls over and slides his arms around me with his eyes still closed and says, “So maybe you are in the mood for something a little ..abnormal?". We all cracked up laughing and her husband yelled out to us “Its true!” and we all laughed harder, even the General and Senator. When we simmered down she continued, “So I said, 'Honey, I am serious!' and so he slides his hands up and grabs me here”, she grabbed her right breast with her hand, “and says in the most calm voice you can imagine, 'I don't know when you grew fur around your breasts, but it feels really soft!'. And everyone just cracked up, it was just such a funny and unexpected thing to say. She continued, “Now that is NOT what any woman ever wants to hear come from her husband's lips so I pulled his arm off me and jumped out of bed. I did not think it was at all funny, even as a joke. So he sat up and looked at me with those baby eyes of his. I knew that he was going to try and snuggle me so I pointed my finger at him and and said, “ You stay away from meeeeeeeee...ahhhh!”. She had turned to him on the stage and was acting it out, pointing her finger and screaming as she looked at it strangely. “So he immediately jumps out of bed too trying to see what I am screaming about and asking me what is wrong. I looked in the mirror on the dresser and knew immediately he could be not seeing what I was, so I told him to close his eyes and feel my hand. Notwithstanding his previous observation about my breasts, being a scientist, he found this fascinating, opening and closing his eyes as his sense of touch told him one thing and his vision told him another. Eventually, he said to me, 'You know, this is impossible, but I believe you are changing into a large mink. Over the next hour or so he was following my changes with me as my face and ears changed and I grew a tail and shrank. Once I had stopped we decided to go to his lab for some physical tests. And for the next few days I felt probably about how you are all feeling here tonight. His attitude and calmness and humor made it so much easier for me, I was upset but I don't think I would have handled it at all well if I was all alone and did not have his support and company. I hope that we can make it easier for you tonight when you all undergo your changes.”.

She looked around us all and continued, “None of you believe me?” And the guy who told her before that she was hot spoke up again, “No way!” but nobody applauded this time, we did not know what to think. So she continued, “Guards can you open up that box now and distribute the containers inside it to everyone please? Nobody open them until I tell you, OK? I am going to turn the briefing over to my husband now, all yours Honey!”, and she handed him the microphone.

“You have all seen optical illusions, and how 2 lines can be identical in length but look to be different sizes? This is due to the way the nerves in our eyes and brains are organized. Something about each cell in my wife's body was causing me to see one thing while my mind was seeing another, but my sense of touch was unchanged. And it was not just me, it also affected her too, she can see any clothing she wears except shoes and no matter what shoes she wears they seem to vanish from her sight. No physical laws in the universe were being broken buy out minds were being subjected in some way to an really advanced holographic image that only existed in our own minds. Furthermore this illusion can also be transmitted by pictures, so that to herself or other changed a picture appears to be a mink while for me and other unchanged it appears to be changed. However a black and white picture of a black and white picture showed a mink. So I reasoned that removing certain colors from the spectrum might be able to break the effect on our nervous systems and developed these glasses that will enable to see my wife and the Senator in the real forms. Some people who might have damaged their nervous systems in an accident or have some color blindness have also been reported to see through this illusion, as well as people who are close to changing themselves where the nerve connections have started to change. How many here have noticed something odd in their vision when not quite looking at my wife or the Senator?". I raised my hand as did a few others. The guard slipped my container into my raised hand. I was the last due to sitting in the back.

“The last thing I want to say, and this will be important for you to understand later, is that the setting up this neuronal illusion requires an outside source of energy. Imagine the sun shining on the moon and you can see it, remove the sun and the moon goes out. Using photo detectors to measure the amount of light reflected from the skin of a changed person verses a normal person and accounting for heat absorption and light scattering, more energy was emitted or absorbed than the total energy of the incident light. Something, someplace, is adding energy and maintaining the ability for changed cells to induce the illusion in our brain's neuronal nets. Confused? “ He looked around the room and I saw a few people nodding that they were. “OK, don't worry about it, I will explain it some more later. Everyone you can all put on the glasses now, and I will turn the briefing back to the Senator.”.

I opened my container and donned the glasses and could see that indeed his wife did look like a large, cute and cuddly mink. The Senator however looked more like a lion, but surprisingly he sounded just normal. I was wondering what I would change into and how I would tell my parents and girlfriend, but it did not really upset me as much as I thought it would, and I think seeing how well the Senator and the two doctors were handling it had a lot to do with that feeling.

The Senator began, “I suppose every changed has their own story to tell, so I'll tell you mine although it is not all that interesting. I am not married and I am member of the Intelligence Committee. These changes are happening to people all over the world. They are not common. There are about 2.5 million people in the armed forces and reserves, and we tried to get everyone we could and we just got you 48. I am sure we missed some but we did our best. But there are others who change alone, who think they are the only ones. They think they are going insane or if they try to tell others, they are not believed and some have ended up committed. Some have tried to search out others and organize support groups on the internet. One group in particular was paranoid that the government was doing this to them, believing some experiment had gone bad, and that we were going to kill them. This became a security concern when they tried to secure weapons to use in their “defense”. Thus I became informed of what was going on over 18 months ago. When I got “the flu” a year ago, I had a suspicion that this might happen, although it was much more than likely I had just a common flu virus, as so many of the ones we sent home in the last few days did. But I canceled all my appointments for August 17 anyways, bought a bottle of Scotch, got drunk sometime at night on the sixteenth and woke up like this the next afternoon. Then I went back to work the next day.”.

The talkative guy in the front obviously liked that and yelled, “Right on Senator! You got any of that Scotch left? I could use a stiff drink about now too!” Everyone laughed and started clapping. “When Dr. Martha Walker saw me on TV a few days later, she and her husband contacted me . They showed me what they had discovered about the illusion field and how something was maintaining it by adding energy to every changed human being on the planet. By the way this was known to some support groups as the Reality Distortion field, but was really had nothing to do with distorting reality or the fundamental laws of the universe, just our own perceptions. I showed them some of the statistics one of the support groups had gathered and they extrapolated from there and then, I contacted the President who convened the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and this is where I turn things over to the General. General?”, and he handed the microphone to the General.

“Can I have the first slide please?” he said politely to the technicians. This slide appeared on the screen:

Year AD Total Changed Total Populace Changed, as %age of total populace

“The first documented change occurred in 1987 and appears to double every year. Using simple math and an over all population increase of about 1.2% each year, by the year 2020 mankind will no longer exist.” He paused for effect and I thought, “Wow, this is getting heavy!”.

He continued, “There might be some humans who have a natural resistance to whatever is causing the changing and so there may be a still few scattered humans left around someplace at the end of this time, but they would be outcasts. Can I have the second slide please?” he asked. This slide appeared on the screen:

Year AD Total Changed Total Populace Changed, as %age of total populace 35 2021 7,628,876,783 7,628,876,783 100% 36 2022 7,537,330,262 7,537,330,262 100% .(fill in with numbers) . 135 2120 < 1,000 <1,000 100%

This slide shows the birth rate for the changed. Most couples for whom one spouse has changed are biologically unable to have children, even if they are able to overcome the cultural and psychological taboos. Matings between different species is remarkably biologically possible but the offspring are changed with a 50/50 chance of acquiring the animal side of either parent. However, whatever mating signals or pheromones are present for matings among similar species, mixed species couples are not sexually attracted to each other. For most couples they will either remain married and childless, or be unfaithful or get divorced in order to find a sexually acceptable mate. Within 110 years, civilized and intelligent life on earth will be gone, if these current trends continue unchanged. My job is to see this does not happen. We are at war ladies and gentlemen, a war to save the human race that will vanish in 16 years, against an enemy that we do not know, that is scientifically far more advanced than us and whose motives are unknown.”. He paused to let that sink in, and there was not a sound or murmur from anyone.

“The joint chiefs have explored all possible scenarios and theories for what is causing these changes in people that is consistent with the current data we have at this time. I am going to review a few of them with you and our planned responses. The first scenario, and our biggest concern, is that we are being invaded by an advanced race from another planet that seeks to take over our planet for themselves. It is likely that in any direct invasion or landing we would deploy our nuclear weapons against them that would likely make much of the planet uninhabitable for thousands of years, which the invaders would not want to occur. Under this scenario, they are content to simply wait a hundred until we are gone and then colonize the Earth. Critics of this scenario argue that the invaders could just introduce a virus that would lower the human birth rate, or eliminate it entirely, or just change us directly into full animals outright, or even just kill us all with a viral plague immediately. They argue that changing people into half-animals, half humans is technologically more difficult and less efficient if the goal is simply to wipe us out while causing the least damage to the planet, and therefore the invasion scenario is unlikely.”.

“The second theory, popular among the changed support groups on the internet, is that some superior being either native to this universe or from without, has decided to have some fun with us, either out of boredom or some purpose to achieve some good and whose motives we can not understand. This is known by the ROB scenario, where ROB stands for Random Omnipotent Being. Supporters of this theory believe that ROB is seeking to create a type Paradise, a new Garden of Eden type of existence where everyone lives as half animals known on the internet as “furies”, in harmony with full animals and nature. Such a world be incompatible with our current industrialized society with our current population. Critics of this scenario argue that any intelligent Omnipotent being would be able to achieve that result in a faster and more logical direct manner by direct contact and instructions to us than by randomly changing the entire population to furies with no instructions.”.

“The third theory, and the last I am going to discuss, is that these changes are being caused by some small group of humans that have either developed this advanced technology themselves, or have acquired it from some functional alien artifact, such as crashed space ship. Under this scenario, this group of dictators have decided to change the world to suit their dreams or fantasies, and don't really care about the suffering it causes to anyone else who have different dreams. Critics of this scenario argue that it would take a great deal of specialized knowledge to understand any alien technology this advanced and that no single human could understand it or keep it secrete this long without help. Any attempt to assemble a group with that specialized knowledge would have revealed the discovery of the artifact to us already.”.

“Regardless of which of the above scenarios is true, or some of other scenarios I have not mentioned, our response has been organized into three groups, who are to work together, assist each other, coordinate results and share information. I have been placed in charge of the Military Group, Doctor Sydney Walker has been placed in charge of the Science Group, to coordinate methods and develop technologies for understanding how these changes are being caused, and his wife Dr. Martha Walker has been placed in charge of the Social Impact Group. I have already explained my purpose, now I will turn the briefing back to Dr. Martha who will explain her group.”. He handed the microphone back to her as she walked from her chair and back to the center of the stage.

“Thank you General. As you can all understand the news of these changes will have a great impact on society, and my job is to find ways to prepare society for these changes to minimize social disruption, such as riots and chaos when it is revealed. Over the next few years I plan to work with the media to gradually introduce the ideas of “furies” into our mainstream culture, in magazines, television and movies. We plan to start production next year of the prototype glasses my husband created for use by medical and law enforcement personnel to identify people who have changed and give appropriate help. I am hoping to enlist some of you here today as councilors in this effort. We have to work with industry to start industrial design work now, I can tell you now that trying to do anything even a simple typing with claws instead of hands really sucks. If we want our civilized society to continue, assuming in 16 years we will all be furies, we need to redesign and build practically every tool and machine to work with many different sizes and shapes of claws and hoofs well before then. Without this, a violent and tragic failure of the infra structure will occur as food can not be produced or delivered into cities, and machines and factories can not be operated. The 110 year time line will be greatly shortened as the world becomes not a Paradise, but a living hell of starvation and fighting over increasingly resources as survival of the fittest becomes the rule and civilization collapses back into the dark ages. I hope we can figure out how to stop these transformations from occurring before 2020. But if we can't, we need to take actions now to make sure our civilization can survive it. I will also be working with hospitals to promote and encourage artificial insemination to help raise the birth rates among furies who wish to have children with their partners, and who can not overcome the social and psychological taboos. I know my husband and I wanted to have a family, and this has been very emotional for us as well. For our children, I hope this will be less of a problem and the natural fury birth rate will improve, but I believe it will remain a very real problem for the humans who changed the next 50 years. The department I am setting up has a budget of over 2 billion dollars a year, and I believe we can succeed, indeed we have to, if we are to survive. And now I will turn the briefing over to my husband who will explain the experiments you will participate in a few hours and what all this fantastically expensive setup is for.” As she turned to give the microphone to her husband, the talkative guy in the front stood up and started clapping and then everyone else followed and gave her a standing ovation. She smiled and curtsied cutely and said thank you and went to her seat.”.

Her husband began, “We need to know what is happening and how. To achieve that, you have been gathered here to participate in a series of experiments. Similar groups have been assembled in Russia and China, who are the only countries who were able to organize a program in this short time frame.”.

“When my wife changed, she lost about 30 pounds. Now, I did not think much about it at the time, with all excitement about her change, but I recall struggling to get my pants on and irritated over it because I was in a hurry to take her to the lab. One of the laws of the universe is conservation of mass and energy. Did some of her weight get transferred to me during the process? It had to go someplace. This hanger has been sealed completely from the outside, no air can even get in or out. The pads you will shortly be standing or sitting on are large scales. Your weight will be continuously . The air pressure is also being recorded, as is the temperature. There are two tared sealed vats containing enriched deuterium water, one in the center and one over here behind the stage.”. We all turned our heads to see the cylindrical glass vats.

“Our goal is to see if any of that water ends up in any of your bodies and how much. My hypothesis is that the total mass and energy in this hanger will remain unchanged over the period everyone is transforming. We hope the cameras and coils on the gurneys overhead will capture this. They are designed to capture all light frequencies from far infrared to near x-rays. Synchronized shutter speeds on over 1000 cameras enable the taking of one photograph in the time a photon of light travels one yard. You might recall earlier when I talked to you about the Sun shining on the moon? We believe that some object or force is in effect shining a “light” on your bodies and within that “light” instructions are contained that orchestrate and accelerate the changes that have already started to occur in your chromosomes. The coils will try and record that signal so the computers can analyze it. We believe that this signal originates from one spot and travels at the speed of light to every affected person on the earth, since data collected indicates that changes happen at consistent but different times in different time zones but all at approximately the same time globally. You will all be arranged on the pads and we are hoping to catch the effect of these signals as it “illuminates” each of you along its path. Using this data, along with the data and timing from the other two countries with similar systems, we hope to be able to triangulate and determine where on the earth or space this signal is coming from within 100 feet.”.

“Our last experiment concerns the causes of the flu-like symptoms you have experienced. To help us determine if the change can be transmitted, one of these blond triplets here consented to undergo a transfusion from his identical twin in the cast. The other brother will be a control. As a side benefit, we expect the brother with the cast will have his broken bone fully mended during the transformation and the scar in his skin from his fall fully repaired in his new body.”. I thought of a few scars I would be happy to be rid of as well.

“Now, let me briefly outline what you can expect after the change. Although we can find no viral proteins in any of your cells, one theory is that it might be a naked reverse transcription RNA virus or a collections of smaller RNA working together. The DNA in your cells is already being changed in any case regardless of how, in ways that viruses, and bacteria for that matter, have not had time to adapt. The animal DNA and antibodies protect you from many human disease while the human ones protect you from those that would affect the animal. You will find that after you change in a few hours, you will seldom get sick, and will feel much healthier than you have ever before. But there are some other effects you should be aware of. Some cases have been reported where a person gets the flu symptoms every year and changes to something else. In other cases, a persons gender can be reversed. Both are rare.

“Finally, my last topic regards the personal tests we performed on each of you. During PCR tests we performed on your blood work, we determined the amount of animal DNA in your cells and to which animal it belongs and your amount of X-chromosome. We know that there is only one person here that will undergo gender change tonight, and we know which type of fury each of you will all become. Everyone will be able to watch everyone else change in a few hours, and so keeping this information private and confidential is not required. Further, my wife tells me that knowing in advance will help you all be better prepared psychologically to adjust to the transformation. With that I am going to stand when I call each your names in alphabetical order, I will state the gender and type of transformation you will undergo, then please be seated.” He began calling names. They all seemed to be taking it fairly well as he read their names and they stood and sat in turn. I noticed that the talkative guy in the front was going to be a leopard, while the blond guy with the cast, and perhaps his brother, was going to be a deer. He announced one of the prettier women was going to be a cow and not a single person even snickered. Then it was my turn and I stood holding my breath. “ Paul McAllister, …..female pig.”. I was grateful nobody made any comments as I sat down trying to come to terms what I had just heard.

I was still trying to sort my thoughts as he finished reading the last name and two full bus appeared from which doctors and nurses departed. We were instructed to go to our pads where we would sit or stand totally naked while the cameras photographed us as we changed. We were connected to the same equipment that had been used in the hospital bed, except that a small mirror had been attached so we could see ourselves if we wanted.

By this time, I had recovered from my initial shock. I looked at my watch and it was 2350 hours. As I waited, I felt like I was back on my base when the Drill Sergeant was yelling at us to do something we knew we could not do, our muscles straining and aching telling us we could not do it, but when we really tried with our minds and our wills we could. This was not going to be easy for me, it would hurt in lots and lots of ways. But I had learned enough about myself in training to know that regardless of the body I would wear, that victory starts here: within my mind, my will and my soul.

The End

To be continued in the next story when I know the results of Dr. Sydney Walker's experiments.
Separator k.png

User talk:Argamis

2011-01-13T08:12:52Z

Argamis: Replaced content with 'My personal in-wiki forum.'

My personal in-wiki forum.

User:Argamis

2011-01-13T08:11:33Z

Argamis: Created page with '{{author page}} {{DEFAULTSORT:Argamis}} Just another online reader (who should never have been allowed to register and login in a wiki...). * I was following the works of the …'

{{author page}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Argamis}}

Just another online reader (who should never have been allowed to register and login in a wiki...).

* I was following the works of the Paradise Setting timeline, when the 2011 server crash delete my account, watchlist and "I need to read this later" talk pages related...

*My first wiki-edition in life: contribute to rebuild the page "shifti.org/wiki/Paradise_(Setting)" (adding the links to the autor´s pages; searching in the wiki for another Paradise-related works , etc).

== About Me ==
I'm just a young man of Argentina. I don't write anything (yet) here; but someday (I hope), something called 'creativity' and something called 'skill' will merge just inside my mind (by accident, of course)...

Like all ex-teenagers of the XXI century, I like video games and stuff like that, and they usually serve as distractions from life.
I'm also a closet ateist+furry.

== My Stories ==
(In the Future...maybe)

===Standalone===
(none,null,zero)

===In the Paradise Setting===
(Probably, my first writting ->HERE<-; I love "The Rules" & "The Numbers" ^_^)

User talk:Argamis

2011-01-13T08:03:08Z

Paradise (Setting)

2011-01-13T07:18:38Z

Argamis: /* {{separator|f|Stories in Chronological Order}} */

{{Universe|Paradise}}

{{byline|author=Jon Buck
|user=JonBuck}}

A direct link '''[[User:JonBuck/A Kind of Paradise|To the original story.]]'''

=={{separator|f|Stories in Chronological Order}}==

Authors may add links to their stories as they happen in chronological order in story time. For a complete listing of all Paradise stories, since this list may be updated sporadically, see [[:Category:Paradise|the Paradise Category]].

'''2000'''
*[[User:Erastus/On the Outside Looking|On the Outside, Looking...]] ''(Through 2010) ([[User:Erastus|Erastus]])''

'''2001'''
*[[Ranty Raccoon]] ''(Digitalpotato)''

'''2002'''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Made Alone|Made Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Bathing Alone|Bathing Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Not Quite Alone|Not Quite Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Suspected Alone|Suspected Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Revealing Alone|Revealing Alone]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''

'''2003'''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Convention Building|Convention Building]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Model Building | Model Building]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Change Building | Change Building]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''
*[[User:MatthiasRat/Confession Building | Confession Building]] ''([[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]])''

'''2004'''

'''2005'''
*[[User:Jetfire/Holes in the Veil| Holes in the Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Robotech_Master/Capsule_Review:_Changed:_The_Unveiling|RPG.net Capsule Review: Changed: The Unveiling]] ''([[User:Robotech_Master|Robotech_Master]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Lifting The Veil| Lifting The Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Poking the Veil| Poking the Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Stages|Stages]] ''(Through October 2006) ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''

'''2006'''
*[[User:Jetfire/Film at 2011| Film at 2011]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/GM'O'Fur| GM'O'Fur]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Twisting the Veil| Twisting the Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Silver Fox Tracks|Silver Fox Tracks]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Generations| Generations]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/A Rolling Stone Gathers No Veil|A Rolling Stone Gathers No Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Auld Lang Syne|Auld Lang Syne]] (Extends into 2007) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Reverberations|Reverberations]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Bare Hands|Bare Hands]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''

'''2007'''
*[[User:Eirik/Treatment|Treatment]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/It Bears Investigation|It Bears Investigation]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Gaming Furs|Gaming Furs]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:JonBuck/A Kind of Paradise|A Kind of Paradise]] ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Radio No Veil|Radio No Veil]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Six Furries and a Wedding|Six Furries and a Wedding]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:JonBuck/Tall Tales|Tall Tales]] ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''
*[[User:Nikon/Changing Perspectives|Changing Perspectives]] ''([[User:Nikon|Nikon]])''
*[[User:Nikon/Back to Reality|Back to Reality]] ''([[User:Nikon|Nikon]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Clearing the Air|Clearing the Air]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Waters_So_Cold_and_Deep|Waters So Cold and Deep]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Doing Hard Time|Doing Hard Time]] (Extends into 2008) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[Monkey Business]]
*[[User:Nikon/Coming Home|Coming Home]] (guess based on posting date) ''([[User:Nikon|Nikon]])''

'''2008'''
*[[User:Jetfire/Live_At_Five|Live At Five]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Rising Waters|Rising Waters]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Gulf_Ice|Gulf Ice]] (Prelude in 2001) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/The_Bear_Facts|The Bear Facts]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Election Fever|Election Fever]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Eirik/Centers of Power|Centers of Power]] ''([[User:Eirik|Eirik]])''
*[[User:JonBuck/Open Secrets|Open Secrets]] ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''
*[[User:WolfyDrake95/New_World|New World]] ''([[User:WolfyDrake95|WolfyDrake95]])''
*[[User:WolfyDrake95/To_a_Friend|To a Friend]] ''([[User:WolfyDrake95|WolfyDrake95]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Special Care|Special Care]] ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/NorBAC|NorBAC]] (begins in June; jumps to September) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''
*[[User:Jetfire/Judge_Judy:_Deagle_vs_Anderson|Judge Judy: Deagle vs Anderson]] (2008 or 2009) ''([[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]])''

'''2009'''
*[[User:JonBuck/After Hours|After Hours]] ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''

'''2010'''
*[[User:JonBuck/Changing America|Changing America]] (work in progress) ''([[User:JonBuck|JonBuck]])''
*[[User:Robotech_Master/See Change: March 20, 2010|See Change: March 20, 2010]] ''([[User:Robotech_Master|Robotech_Master]])''
*[[User:Robotech_Master/Tiffnapped|Tiffnapped]] ''([[User:Robotech_Master|Robotech_Master]])''
*[[User:Robotech_Master/Holding Helena|Holding Helena]] ''([[User:Robotech_Master|Robotech_Master]])''

'''Alternate Future'''
*[[Cascade Failure]]

=={{separator|f|Basics}}==
*The setting is basically indistinguishable from the Real World up until 1987, the year when people first begin to spontaneously transform into furries.
*Exactly one person transformed in Year One ''(i.e.,'' 1987), and the number of furries doubles in late August each year. The initial story in this setting, [[User:JonBuck/A Kind of Paradise|A Kind of Paradise]], is set in Year 21 ''(i.e.,'' 2007), when there are just over one million furries. The next year (2008) will add a million, for a total of two megafurries, and so forth.
*The first furry in 1987 was a vixen, with a tod the next year. Some stereotypes do have a basis in "reality". :)
**The entire world will be furry in 2020.
*Every year it's possible that an already-changed person could change ''again''. With increasing rarity, all less than one percent:
**A species change. ("What the..? I'm a ''wolf'' now? What am I supposed to do with all these hoof picks?")
**A gender change. ("Where do men put this ''thing'' between our legs when we sit down?")
**A combination of both. ("Don't ''even'' call me a bitch! Just show me how to put on this stupid bra!")
**The next year there is about a 25% chance that the person will revert to their original gender/first species. If that doesn't happen, it's fixed. If they change back... there's another 25% chance that you'll bounce back ''again'' the next year. So there's some potential for characters who spend years alternating between species/gender.
*Also distinctive from Winds of Change: ''No superpowers''. Just whatever natural abilities (things like augmented senses, physical strength, ''etc)'' come from being half animal.
*'''The Role Reversal Paradox.'''
**''IF'' the couple has children, pre- or post-Change, no matter what age...
**''IF'' one of the couple has been transgendered...
**''THEN'' it is essentially a sure thing that the partner will TG as well.
**The reason for this is simple. ROB hates paradoxes. If they have children, there ''must'' be a father and a mother. And it ''must'' be the same two people. It doesn't matter if that person divorced and remarried someone else. Or if they're unmarried. One father, one mother. Otherwise, the kids will logically not have come into existence.
**Conversely, if they are married/going out/living together/etc., the same TG 1% dice roll applies to them as everyone else.

'''Important.''' Please ''do not'' write stories that are father ahead in the timeline than those I have written.''

'''Note on Politics'''. As a request, I ask authors not to use major political figures from Real Life. I don't want any political bashing going on here. Characters like Congressman Sandrick are perfectly fine, so feel free to create fictional members of Congress or Members of Parliament. Remember this world is different from ours from 1987 onwards. There are still details I haven't filled in between then and now, and the Butterfly Effect means that there will be some small, some major differences.

{{add|'''Winners of the 2008 Election'''}}
*President: Karen Hutchinson. (Reverse Pres. Obama and his wife, basically)
*VP: Steven Angstrom

===The Transgendered===
Just a few details.
#This is an earlier, generally harmless virus that got into the simulation. ROB dealt with it by the "history editing" as described in the stories.
#It's been around a LOT longer than the Furry Virus.
#Even though it's probably been around for thousands of years, there are far fewer victims than the Furry Virus as of 2009. I imagine the furry virus co-opted this one for the TGed furs.
#As in real life, there are many more male to female victims than the other way around.
#Transgendered victims have little or no support system like furries do. They're generally isolated. And before 2009 couldn't see through the RDF.

===Physiology===

*Furries can still interbreed with one another as if they were all still human. Children get a 50/50 chance of which of the parents' species they follow.
*Conversely, humans '''cannot''' interbreed with furries, probably due to the RDF.
*There are some physical variations, but not the wide "Degrees" that Winds of Change has. The most obvious differences are hair, feet, and hands. Otherwise, most everyone is about as morphic as seen in common furry art.
**Females most often have hair the same color and similar texture as their fur. Though you do still get the occasional blond.
**Males retain their hair less frequently.
*'''Size Limitations.''' On the suggestion from the Talk page. I'm not going to limit species. However, I will have a minimum/maximum size range:
**7 feet (or 2.1m), max. About 600 lb (272 kg), max.
**4 feet (1.2m). I'll leave the small side open.
*Species are native to a particular continent. So most people in North America will end up whitetail deer, elk, bears, foxes, wolves, etc. Recent immigrants will more likely end up native species to wherever they came from.
**However, this means that someone from Seattle could ''still'' end up a leopard, or a llama, or what-have-you from other continents. I just want to make that clear.
**No mythicals like dragons, griffins, satyrs, vampires, mages, what-have-you. Just furries.
**No birds, reptiles, or other non-mammals.
*'''No Extinct Species.''' No dinosaurs. Sadly, I can't include them. There are so many species that are just too big.
*'''Note on Transsexuals'''. This setting is intended as a mix of wish fulfillment and darker, more realistic consequences. That said, all TS folks get their bodies "corrected". Keep in mind that this won't necessarily make life easier for said character. Conflict generates Plot. And since most of the folks who get their gender switched ''won't'' be TS, there's still plenty of that around.
*Results of major surgeries are translated. Artificial hips, knees and pacemakers still work as needed. Transplant patients will not reject their organs. However, lost limbs will not regenerate and major chronic diseases will not be cured, but may go into a lengthy remission.
*One of the major benefits is a major improvement in health and fitness. ROB can't stop the change, but at least he can give the victims a sort of consolation prize. You may not end up in perfect shape, but it'll be close. A flood of positive endorphins to make the victim feel good about their new bodies doesn't hurt, either (optional). Now, what happens to that state of fitness ''after'' is entirely up to your characters.

===Psychology===
*At this point I'm inclined to have some mitigating effects on the "victims". It's still going to be very, very hard to deal with. This is a major life disruption. And there are no doubt a lot of secluded furs. But suicides aren't as common as you'd think.
*The transgendered furs do have an even rougher time. The double-whammy of species and gender would likely make serious post-change Issues a reality.
**Transgendered furs typically refer to themselves by their initials: BD, DL, etc..
**Some might end up going a little crazy and think they had ''always been'' their new gender, especially after the effects of Tall Tales Con.
*The more adjusted furs have figured out how to find these troubled souls and bring them back into the real world.

=={{separator|f|The Reality Distortion Field (Veil)}}==
*Humans can't see furries for what they are. They still see whatever the person looked like before, even if that person was the opposite gender.
*Some things aren't filtered correctly. Consequently...
**If a TGed man gets pregnant, the filter will change that person's ghost image to female. But she will still appear human to other humans.
**Things like hoof/paw prints, shed fur, shed antlers, clawmarks, animal odors, etc., are not filtered. So if a cougar morph gets in a fight with a normal human and lashes out with his claws, he could cause a hell of a lot of damage.
**Some humans think that there is something up (referred to as "Known" or "Friends"). And some have figured out that the friends who claim to be furry actually ''are'' what they claim to be.
*The RDF sometimes breaks down a little during large gatherings of furries (like at conventions). "Hey, that's the best costume I've ever seen! Is that a prosthetic muzzle?" Memories afterwards will probably remember some really good costumes, and photos will be perceived as such.
**In more extreme cases it will break down entirely. But it would take repeated exposures, or perhaps having a number of furry friends while remaining humans oneself. Like in [[User:Nikon/Changing_Perspectives|Changing Perspectives]].
**Transgendered furs may be perceived by humans as their new gender out of the corner of their eye. And there are likely other circumstances where the human RDF image will realign also. Specific circumstances (such as pregnancy) will be the decisive factor.
**As of 2007, TGed TallTales Con attendees have had a major RDF alteration. Everyone except family, friends, or people who have seen them often enough to really know, will perceive them as their new physical sex. Which is essentially the vast majority of people. This effect will spread to all the other TGed until 2008, when it becomes the norm.
**'''As of 2009''', all human ghosts now reflect their real gender, no matter who is looking.
*Do animals perceive the RDF? Probably not. But the odor of a fur is neither quite human or animal. There are still some common human pheromones, for example. Which is what makes romance between wolf and deer possible. This is a ''good'' thing, since it means that a doe-woman in heat won't be chased down by a normal buck.
*It may start to break down as there grow to be millions of furries in the world (see below).
*Another storytelling idea: The RDF is an ''antiviral measure'' (see The Cause below). When the RDF breaks down, people ''may'' change out-of-phase, since they no longer have that protection. This will make it harder to track down people who change and get them the help they need. This is ''not'' a hard-and-fast rule, but the storytelling device is available. But I '''don't''' want it to become commonplace.

==={{separator|f|Holes in the Veil}}===

As seen in [[User:JonBuck/After Hours|After Hours]], on August 29, 2009 the Veil started coming down.

*First one appeared in Hyannis, MA on August 29. It quickly expanded to (size to be determined) and outed every furry in town. Other holes appeared in and around Chicago. Without exception they appear first where there's been a recent or frequent concentration of furs.
*Holes start small, but will grow depending on how weak the RDF is in the area.
*As the RDF decays, furs will feel like they're wrapped in loose plastic. And there's something of a light show. The air shimmers. The air feels cleaner, fresher.
**The RDF is an extra "rendering layer" of sorts. Since until now all furs had lived with it, they only really notice it was there now that it's been taken away. Leaving a Hole a fur will feel like he or she is wearing clothing a size too small or too large, depending on how much they deviate from the human norm. A really sensitive fur might feel suffocated, as if they were wrapped in plastics. They'll feel irritable and given the right situation, may tear ''new'' Holes (which could make good story fodder).
*They're like soap bubbles in that if they encounter other holes, they'll grow even larger. All of them are still slowly expanding, and may jump to larger sizes at unpredictable intervals.
*ROB will start a controlled shutdown of the RDF over the course of the year. Its replacement will be a Weirdness Censor.
**The world is going furry crazy. But not ''crazy crazy''. Using a cooking analogy, it's like a foamed egg whites getting folded into a souffle or other dish that needs careful mixing, or the recipe falls apart.

*Furs feel much more comfortable with themselves inside the holes. To furs, the RDF feels like restrictive clothing. Doubly so for the TGed furs. Even normal humans feel better. Caveats:
**Normal humans who spend more and more time inside one of these holes run increasing risk of becoming furry at any time of the year ahead.
**Once the RDF is down completely in late 2010, the above may apply to everyone. The numbers are still doubling as below, but the August 17 restriction no longer applies. And as above, a TG can happen before a TF.
**Furries cease being humans in funny costumes. Their animal natures will more easily bob to the surface. This is partly for psychological reasons (don't have to hide any more). Partly due to the pressure from the RDF being gone.

=={{separator|f|The Numbers}}==

Total sequence as follows (all figures approximate):
Year AD Total Furries Total Populace Furries, as %age of total populace
1 1987 1 5,184,212,887 0.000 000 02%
2 1988 2 5,247,179,035 0.000 000 04%
3 1989 4 5,310,909,955 0.000 000 05%
4 1990 8 5,375,414,934 0.000 000 15%
5 1991 16 5,440,703,374 0.000 000 3%
6 1992 32 5,506,784,792 0.000 000 6%
7 1993 64 5,573,668,818 0.000 001 1%
8 1994 128 5,641,365,200 0.000 002%
9 1995 256 5,709,883,806 0.000 004%
10 1996 512 5,779,234,621 0.000 009%
11 1997 1,024 5,849,427,754 0.000 018%
12 1998 2,048 5,920,473,436 0.000 035%
13 1999 4,096 5,992,382,020 0.000 07%
14 2000 8,192 6,065,163,988 0.000 14%
15 2001 16,384 6,138,829,947 0.000 3%
16 2002 32,768 6,213,390,635 0.000 5%
17 2003 65,536 6,288,856,918 0.001%
18 2004 131,072 6,365,239,795 0.002%
19 2005 262,144 6,442,550,400 0.004%
20 2006 524,288 6,520,800,000 0.008%
21 2007 1,048,576 6,600,000,000 0.016%
22 2008 2,097,152 6,680,161,943 0.031%
23 2009 4,194,304 6,761,297,514 0.062%
24 2010 8,388,608 6,843,418,536 0.123%
25 2011 16,777,216 6,926,536,980 0.24%
26 2012 33,554,432 7,010,664,959 0.48%
27 2013 67,108,864 7,095,814,736 0.95%
28 2014 134,217,728 7,181,998,721 1.87%
29 2015 268,435,456 7,269,229,474 3.69%
30 2016 536,870,912 7,357,519,711 7.30%
31 2017 1,073,741,824 7,446,882,298 14.42%
32 2018 2,147,483,648 7,537,330,262 28.49%
33 2019 4,294,967,296 7,628,876,783 56.30%
34 2020 8,589,934,592 7,721,535,206 >100%

At this point stories should take place in '''2001 at the earliest''', up to the current story-time year. The community gets really, really small before then. If you have a story that takes place in this era, submit it to me first. Thank you.

Things should start to get really interesting around 2010. There's enough furs in the world then that niche markets would start to open up. More clothing and products specifically designed for furries start popping up. Also, it will become harder and harder to induct new furs into the group in a healthy manner. Society may start to break down in places.

It will take a concerted effort by those previously changed to keep everything under control...

'''Distribution.''' It's not random, or even. It's an expanding fractal centered on the Chicago area. As far as visualization, I'll leave that vague. But the majority of the first furs were in North America.

From the way these stories are playing out, I'd say that events are unfolding like this:

*'''1987-2002''': "Alone" period. Isolation between furries, with only a few very small groups, most of them thinking they're all alone. Best exemplified by [[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat's]] stories. Nobody knows what's going on.
*'''2002-2008''': Forming Communities. There's now enough furs to start encountering each other regularly. Conventions start up. Anthro imagery (in movies, TV shows, and other media) start to show up more frequently. Information getting put together indicates an ominous trend. The whole world will eventually go furry.
*'''2008-?''': Events unfolding in [[User:JonBuck/Open Secrets|Open Secrets]] will nail down this theme. {{add|From here for the next few years, a third to nearly a half of the new Changed will be Known/Friends or family members. People who can see through the Veil easily.}}

===Important Events===
This section will be for events of note that will be important to the overall storytelling. Authors feel free to note important events in your works that could impact the setting as a whole here.

'''2007'''
*First instances of total, permanent [[User:Nikon/Changing Perspectives|RDF breakdown]]. Incidents isolated.
*First appearance of anthro dolphins. The RDF with these people is a very strained affair. The longer they stay around humans, the more likely it'll fail. Perhaps it realigns the image as a normal dolphin in the water, and a human on land.
*'''Added 2/24.''' Transgendered furs at [[User:JonBuck/Tall Tales|Tall Tales Con]] now appear as their new physical gender to anyone but close friends and family. The RDF is even actively changing identification. Active records like passports and driver's licenses, medical records are all altered to reflect this. Even a pre-Change photo ID will show the new human face, which will be a shock to the TGed fur. This effect is slowly spreading to other TGed furs, see [[User:Jetfire/Doing Hard Time|Doing Hard Time]].
*A number of pressing environmental problems relax slightly. While these solutions will solve some problems, they will cause others, especially in the short term.
**The recovery of the major world fisheries detected in the mid-90s continues apace.
**Major discoveries in energy include massive oilfields in various stable First World nations: US, Canada, UK, Norway, etc..
**Scientists observe CO2 levels stabilizing for currently unknown reasons.
**Third World experiences boosts in food production from improved farming practices and soil conditions.
**New renewable energy discoveries, new batteries, a bacterial process for making gasoline and diesel from municipal wastewater.
*With all these new furs, there are now enough singles to start pairing up. The lingering worries about fertility and children will be answered next year...

'''2008'''
*Fallout from Tall Tales Con continues. All newbie and furry gatherings the next year will be much, much smaller, informal.
*Although there were a few before this year, this is the first year a large number of furry babies will be born.
*A Changed rabbit appears as ''Playboy'''s September Playmate of the Month (though only other Changed/Changed-sensitive know it until later).

'''2009'''
*This Change Day will be different from the others. Instead of all happening in the same moment, the new furs will happen in fits and starts throughout the day. Some might change in the early morning, others late that night. The trend will continue over the next few years.
**Another wrinkle. If there's a TG, they don't have to happen at the same time. So some poor fellow who becomes a clouded leopard in the morning (or a woman) will get hit again sometime later.
* The shoe field died in 2008. Now the Veil no longer hides clothing modifications. For some furs this might be a Veil-breaker. We will see.
*Since [[User:JonBuck/Open Secrets|Open Secrets]], the secret is functionally out, though a sort of [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WeirdnessCensor Weirdness Censor] is in place, possibly due to widespread denial. Furry imagery started to dominate the media after the first of the year, especially on medical dramas and "what if" shows on National Geographic, Discovery Channel, even the Food Network. Mostly done with CGI, a few shows used furry actors and cameras able to see through the Veil. More to be revealed in [[User:JonBuck/After Hours|After Hours]].
* '''The Shutdown''', August 17-25. With a major Sleeping Sickness outbreak, much of the world economy shut down for a little over a week, with only essential services (energy, food transport, etc.) kept running. Similar to what Mexico did during the Swine Flu outbreak. Later they are accused of overreacting, as Sleeping Sickness seems to leave a minuscule number of deaths, and the victims healthier than before they contracted it.

'''2010'''
*Tiffany Tanner appears as the first Changed to play a Changed in a recurring role on daytime television. With the aid of a special lens, Tiffany's character "Felice Hunter" on ''One Life to Live'' dramatizes the plight of Changed forced to keep secrets from family and friends. Her stint on the show is briefly interrupted when she is kidnapped for several weeks, after which she again makes headlines as one of "Melton's Eleven," eleven furres who had been kidnapped for the private amusement of a twisted, reclusive millionaire (who vanished shortly before they escaped).

=={{separator|f|The Cause}}==

So, why is this happening? What's causing it? A nanotech virus? Microscopic magic pixies? The return of magic? The wrath of God? What?

The answer is contained in '''[[User:JonBuck/Tall Tales|Tall Tales]]'''.

However, the idea is this. Ever since I read [http://www.accelerando.org/ ''Accelerando''] By Charles Stross, I've been enamored with the idea of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity technological Singularity]. So I've been looking for a way to use it in my fiction at one point. This setting provides the answer to that desire. ''Accelerando'' is available for free on the web.

Our universe--or perhaps just our planet, I haven't decided yet--and all the people in it, are basically a simulation. This doesn't make the characters in these stories any less real than you our I. Mathematics forms the basis of the universe, after all. The people are as sentient as you or I. This makes the setting rather Matrix-like, without the human bodies being used as "batteries". We're all more like Agent Smith.

I refer to this as a "furry virus". It comes from outside the post-Singularity brain, and is slightly more advanced than "ours". What's happening is this bit of malicious code (sentient, no less, but on a level far beyond our ability to comprehend it) is messing up the simulated world we reside in. Why? I dunno. One of those inscrutable things. The RDF is an antiviral measure to contain the damage and allow the society within to adapt. This is also why so far, furry species are limited to mammals. As the numbers of furs increase, that ''will'' change. I have yet to decide just when.

Why not just scrap the whole thing and restore from backup? There are no backups because the simulated people are nevertheless living beings. And they can't just be wiped out.

I hope that explanation isn't too confusing. Please let me know on the '''[[Talk:Paradise (Setting)|Talk Page]]''' if you have questions.

=={{separator|f|Notes on Avatars}}==
So far, the convention for avatars in this setting is for writers to use the first initials of first and last names. However, I wanted to note that my intent here is to give the writer more freedom than to base these characters on yourself. I've changed a lot of details about Jerome, for instance. If you want to put your avatar--if you decide to use one--into this setting, go crazy. Give them a challenge (worse job, emotional trouble). Or make them better off and have the change cause a lot of trouble with work/family/whatever. What I'm trying to say here is, don't feel you have to be directly limited by your present or past self. ''Have fun.''

=={{separator|f|Important Cast}}==

'''[[Paradise Cast List]]'''

Since this is a wiki, that means everyone can edit it. Authors who want to put names and short bios of the characters in their stories, just in case someone else wants to use them for a cameo. With the characters, please list the stories that they appear in. Please put your cast members on the linked cast page. Thank you.

[[Category:Paradise]]